Hi,

Hit in the face by the Brennan JB7 ad in Radio Times, I would like advice
about electronic CD storage. I play CDs via a Cambridge Audio D500 player, a
NAD C326 BEE amp and Monitor Audio Silver RX6 speakers, and listen mainly to
classical music. The amp is also fed from a Sony Bravia TV, and I have a
Dell PC hooked up to work via the TV (including sound) by a non-VGA link
(HDMI?).



I do find playing my CDs inhibited by the labour of getting them out of a
cupboard etc etc and am starting to think about storage, either on the
computer or on an external device such as the JB7.



I would be grateful for advice:

1.. Does such storage result in significant loss of audio quality?
2.. I have ripped CDs for my MP3 player using the built-in Windows program
but are there better rippers available?
3.. Are there alternatives to the JB7 that have advantages?
4.. Any other advice/comments?


Many thanks,



Gordon

In article , Gordon MacPherson
wrote:
Hi,

I do find playing my CDs inhibited by the labour of getting them out of
a cupboard etc etc and am starting to think about storage, either on
the computer or on an external device such as the JB7.

Must admit that I'm not personally exhausted by looking though my CDs and
choosing one to play. :-) However...

I would be grateful for advice:

1.. Does such storage result in significant loss of audio quality?

Depends entirely on the file format of the 'ripped' copy. If you copy as
LPCM with a decent reading system the data will be bit-identical. So if
using the same DAC with a decent system it should be indistinguishable.
(Note use of "should", though. :-) )

2.. I have ripped CDs for my MP3 player using the built-in Windows
program but are there better rippers available?

No idea about "better" as I don't use Windows at all so have no comparison.
Can only say that on both RISCOS and Linux I can make LPCM copies of a CD
that are bit-identical to the source. Easy enough, and Linux gives you a
range of zero-cost systems to try out.


3.. Are there alternatives to the JB7 that have advantages? 4.. Any other
advice/comments?

If your main interest is lack of fuss or bother than something like the
'JB7' may suit you. You will need to check if it stores as LPCM or
something else as I can't remember. A computer+NAS will give you more
storage and more flexibility but may mean more experimenting or higher
cost.

FWIW Although I just play CDs ye olde fashioned way I also use a Shuttle
computer with its fan disconnected and with a Solid State HD as both an
iPlayer and a machine to store various types of non-CD soundfile. Then play
these via a Cambridge Audio DACMagic. I currently use Linux (Ubuntu 9.04)
for this. Works nicely. if willing to experiment with that kind of thing
I'd suggest you try using Linux Mint as a dual boot on your computer if it
has a decent soundcard. I have no idea if this will suit you, but
experimenting should be easy enough. If not, then you may be best to go for
a packaged solution like the Brennan.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"Gordon MacPherson" wrote
in message

I do find playing my CDs inhibited by the labour of
getting them out of a cupboard etc etc and am starting to
think about storage, either on the computer or on an
external device such as the JB7.

I would be grateful for advice:

1.. Does such storage result in significant loss of
audio quality?

Not if you use good procedures.

The gold standard in computer storage of CD tracks is .wav files. They are
bit-for-bit identical to the CD.

Technically just as good and taking up about half the space are files stored
in lossless compressed formats. FLAC is a good example of this.

Potentially sounding as good but theoretically not the same are high-bitrate
lossy compress files such as 320 Kb MP3s.

2.. I have ripped CDs for my MP3 player using the
built-in Windows program but are there better rippers
available?

Windows Media Player does a credible job, but EAC is probably a little
better. It's freeware.

3.. Are there alternatives to the JB7 that have advantages?

Many people use an old PC which can be technically just as good-sounding,
and may have zero out-of-pocket expense.

The appliances like the JB7 are primarily convenience plays. Nothing wrong
with convenience if you have the money.

On 04/07/2010 06:39, Gordon MacPherson wrote:
Hi,

Hit in the face by the Brennan JB7 ad in Radio Times, I would like advice
about electronic CD storage. I play CDs via a Cambridge Audio D500 player, a
NAD C326 BEE amp and Monitor Audio Silver RX6 speakers, and listen mainly to
classical music. The amp is also fed from a Sony Bravia TV, and I have a
Dell PC hooked up to work via the TV (including sound) by a non-VGA link
(HDMI?).



I do find playing my CDs inhibited by the labour of getting them out of a
cupboard etc etc and am starting to think about storage, either on the
computer or on an external device such as the JB7.


I've noticed they're marketing the JB7 on this 'labour saving' ticket.
Know their market :-)


I would be grateful for advice:

1.. Does such storage result in significant loss of audio quality?

On the JB7 or any such thing, if you choose lossless, IMO: no. As a rule
of thumb, think 1CD per GB. At higher rates of compression you can fit
more CDs, and some claim to notice a drop in quality - for 10X the
storage. I would use lossless.


2.. I have ripped CDs for my MP3 player using the built-in Windows program
but are there better rippers available?

Possibly - some claim qualitative and quantitative advantages of various
methods. I'm what I'd consider to be relatively neurotic and I just use
iTunes and lossless. A key advantage of using a programme of this kind
is that your tracks will be 'tagged' - contain information that makes
them easier to find.

3.. Are there alternatives to the JB7 that have advantages?

I'd start by using your PC as a music server, and see if the idea
appeals. Personally I'd use an iPod Touch and iTunes if you have a
wireless network - the interface is sublime.

This also opens up options on the digital-analogue conversion stage -
the PC can connect direct to your amp, or you can add a DAC - extra cost
but some report benefits. With the Brennan your stuck with built in
conversion, and I have read isolated reports of audio background noise,
and mechanical noise - not sure how widespread. The few reviews I've
read report good sound quality.

I use a Mac Mini to do the same thing - and more - except the display of
course, which I get from the TV if I need it, or use an iPod touch or
iPhone. Not that I use it that much any more for music (better at video)
- rather put a record on ;-)

4.. Any other advice/comments?


The JB7 is expensive, relies on an accurate external database, and for
all its simplicity I'd find that interface too restrictive. It's a neat
thing though.

Rob

In article , Rob
wrote:

The JB7 is expensive, relies on an accurate external database, and for
all its simplicity I'd find that interface too restrictive. It's a neat
thing though.

FWIW I'm personally wary of devices like this that rely on an external look
up or check. Not confident that they will last as long as I want to use the
device. And not confident that someone somewhere isn't collecting info on
what I am using the device for.

The ripper I initially used for CD tracks with my Ubuntu box did this to
'identify' the CD so it could find out names of artists, etc. Very clever,
but didn't work very well since the 'CDs' were all home recorded CDR/W
discs so I got all kinds of 'artists' etc confidently identified. So I just
disabled this process. In general I don't rip commercial CDs. If I want to
play a CD, then I play the CD. Reading them on a computer is for me just
when I want to examine the data they contain to check for the properties of
the recordings like dynamics statistics, etc.

I've not tried the Brennan or any similar box for CDs. But I also suspect
I'd find the small display and control set annoying. I gave up trying to
use an 'internet radio' as the small display and remote control made it a
PITA to use. Access using a computer is far easier so far as I am
concerned. And is 'free' once you already have the computer. Plus being
easier to upgrade if something like a new stream/file format becomes
trendy.

As with the Brennan I also wonder if many of the present consumer 'internet
radios' will cease working at some future time because they rely on a
service over the net which will be withdrawn when the makers go bust or
lose interest.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"Gordon MacPherson" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Hit in the face by the Brennan JB7 ad in Radio Times, I would like advice
about electronic CD storage. I play CDs via a Cambridge Audio D500 player,
a NAD C326 BEE amp and Monitor Audio Silver RX6 speakers, and listen
mainly to classical music. The amp is also fed from a Sony Bravia TV, and
I have a Dell PC hooked up to work via the TV (including sound) by a
non-VGA link (HDMI?).



I do find playing my CDs inhibited by the labour of getting them out of a
cupboard etc etc and am starting to think about storage, either on the
computer or on an external device such as the JB7.



I would be grateful for advice:

1.. Does such storage result in significant loss of audio quality?
2.. I have ripped CDs for my MP3 player using the built-in Windows
program but are there better rippers available?
3.. Are there alternatives to the JB7 that have advantages?
4.. Any other advice/comments?


Many thanks,



Gordon

I have recently purchased a Squeezebox touch, so that I can control
downstairs, the music I have on my PC upstairs. I use ITunes as a library
organiser and rip my CDs using Apple lossless, although I have a number of
CDs ripped some years ago as 320kbps MP3s. It works flawlessly using my
wireless network, but how successful wireless connection will be depends on
your personal circumstances and house layout.

I have ripped over 1000CDs, (and am still ripping!) and find I now play a
lot more music than before. The sheer convenience of my whole collection on
one control is very seductive, and by keeping the PC upstairs, I don't have
any issues with fan or hard-drive noises. One further point, you MUST back
up the music library to a separate hard drive, as the drive you have you
music on WILL fail one day, not may, but will!

Go for it, I don't think you'll ever regret it....unless you forget to take
a backup.....

S.

On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 15:20:08 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

As with the Brennan I also wonder if many of the present consumer 'internet
radios' will cease working at some future time because they rely on a
service over the net which will be withdrawn when the makers go bust or
lose interest.

They'll certainly stop working if broadcasters decide to stop
streaming their services over the net. Do "Internet Radios" do
anything other that access your choice of web address in the same way
as a computer browser does?

In article , Laurence Payne
wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 15:20:08 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

As with the Brennan I also wonder if many of the present consumer
'internet radios' will cease working at some future time because they
rely on a service over the net which will be withdrawn when the makers
go bust or lose interest.

They'll certainly stop working if broadcasters decide to stop streaming
their services over the net. Do "Internet Radios" do anything other
that access your choice of web address in the same way as a computer
browser does?

I can't say for sure about all models. But the Roberts one I have tried
relies on a service to be able to work. When you switch on its power you
have to go through a (sloooow) process of letting it go to a specific
address to lookup lists of suitable streams. You do this in stages, so have
to do it for each 'group of countries', etc, in turn. It does not remember
these lists if power is removed. And the list changes. Tedious process made
more annoying by the tiny display and minimal user controls. Like using a
1-button mouse whilst wearing a boxing glove.

The radio itself gives you no way to enter a URL for a stream. You can
'register' on a website run by the maker/service provider using your
computer and web browser, then tell them new URLs if they aren't on
their list. This can add them to the lists you can fetch when you power
up the radio.

But what happens if/when the maker loses interest or goes bust and the list
it looks up ceases to be available or changes to a format the box no longer
understands? For normal users the box is unprogrammable. Although I know it
is running a cut-down linux kernal based system and the source code is
available. So it would take someone with the skill and willingness to 'fix'
such a problem. I doubt anyone would bother since 'new models' would be on
the market by then.

Also, when you buy the radio the 'registration' service is 'free'. But would
it remain free some years later even if available? Or would it become a
'ransom' you'd have to pay (annually?) to keep the radio working?...

Another issue with this can be taken from the example radio. It can accept
wma but not aac. So can become obsolete if the radio stations change their
stream formats to ones it doesn't handle.

The advantage here of a computer is that you can change or update the
software or quickly knock together something that does the job - provided
the required info isn't locked behind DCMA bars!

In ye olde days systems like AM and FM were simple enough that any
enthusiast could make a radio and get it to work. Now not only the methods
are more complex, but the providers may wish to lock you out if you haven't
regularly paid some big companies. These days your net connected device may
be 'disabled' by the makers if they decide you aren't following their
rules. Their idea is that they make the decisions, not you. And they also
want to emulate the computer biz that has been so good at getting people to
think they have to buy a new box every few years.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article , Laurence Payne
scribeth thus
On Sun, 04 Jul 2010 15:20:08 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

As with the Brennan I also wonder if many of the present consumer 'internet
radios' will cease working at some future time because they rely on a
service over the net which will be withdrawn when the makers go bust or
lose interest.

They'll certainly stop working if broadcasters decide to stop
streaming their services over the net. Do "Internet Radios" do
anything other that access your choice of web address in the same way
as a computer browser does?

And of course all of this works in 30% of the broadcast radio market in
cars?...
--
Tony Sayer

On 04/07/2010 15:23, Serge Auckland wrote:

"Gordon MacPherson" wrote in message
...
Hi,

Hit in the face by the Brennan JB7 ad in Radio Times, I would like
advice about electronic CD storage. I play CDs via a Cambridge Audio
D500 player, a NAD C326 BEE amp and Monitor Audio Silver RX6 speakers,
and listen mainly to classical music. The amp is also fed from a Sony
Bravia TV, and I have a Dell PC hooked up to work via the TV
(including sound) by a non-VGA link (HDMI?).



I do find playing my CDs inhibited by the labour of getting them out
of a cupboard etc etc and am starting to think about storage, either
on the computer or on an external device such as the JB7.



I would be grateful for advice:

1.. Does such storage result in significant loss of audio quality?
2.. I have ripped CDs for my MP3 player using the built-in Windows
program but are there better rippers available?
3.. Are there alternatives to the JB7 that have advantages?
4.. Any other advice/comments?


Many thanks,



Gordon

I have recently purchased a Squeezebox touch, so that I can control
downstairs, the music I have on my PC upstairs. I use ITunes as a
library organiser and rip my CDs using Apple lossless, although I have a
number of CDs ripped some years ago as 320kbps MP3s. It works flawlessly
using my wireless network, but how successful wireless connection will
be depends on your personal circumstances and house layout.

I have ripped over 1000CDs, (and am still ripping!) and find I now play
a lot more music than before. The sheer convenience of my whole
collection on one control is very seductive, and by keeping the PC
upstairs, I don't have any issues with fan or hard-drive noises. One
further point, you MUST back up the music library to a separate hard
drive, as the drive you have you music on WILL fail one day, not may,
but will!

Go for it, I don't think you'll ever regret it....unless you forget to
take a backup.....

S.

I have also ripped all of my CD collection onto my PC, but to MP3 256k.
Backed up on an internal shadow drive and also to an external drive.

AS I am 55 yrs old now, I really dont miss anything above 16KHz and the
compression isnt noticable (to me anyway).

You may find a programme like EasyCDDA Extractor useful, as it will look
up the CD data from CDDB online, or one of several other sources.

I also use Tag and Rename to make sure all my files are ordered and
named properly (if EasyCDDA fails to recognise a disc).

To playback, I must admit to being a bit of a dinosaur and just use
Windows Media Player !

It all works fine for me

DH