Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

I've recently been enjoying two sources of music in particular. One is the
Proms using the 320k stream. The other is some new (to me) Jazz CDs. This
prompts me to raise various points to see what people think.

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via the
320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than any
traditional broadcasting route I've used. Although it does sometimes hiccup
here - as per one night last week. Both the sound quality and the sheer
effortless dynamic range available is impressive.

Secondly, I wonder what kinds of music people think are - for them - the
most revealing choice to appreciate the sound via their audio setup. I'm
curious to know if this relates to people choosing audio equipment
(particularly speakers) with a specific type of input in mind, so
'optimise' for that at the risk of other source material not being so well
reproduced. e.g. I tend to notice a distinct difference in sound balance
between, say, Proms and old EMI classical recordings. So a system that
works well with one may not flatter the other.

Finally, I am wondering again about people being able to easily get 'new'
music of various kinds, and the ways in which a 'brave new world' of the
net may actually make this less convenient in some ways despite being
presented as being easier. e.g. I saw a review of a set of discs in
Stereophile magazine and then discovered when I asked a dealer that it was
a "limited edition only available directly from the label". So far as I can
see, the magazine doesn't tell you.

This seems to be a trend for specialised discs of the kind audio mags
review and means you end up having to move towards almost "buying every
disc is an adventure of going to another website and giving someone else
you don't know your card info". Preceeded by "hunt the site". Am I the only
person who thinks life would be simpler if any disc reviewed could be
bought openly via any dealer? Thus making some price competition possible,
as well as simplifying the process for the purchaser.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I've recently been enjoying two sources of music in particular. One is the
Proms using the 320k stream. The other is some new (to me) Jazz CDs. This
prompts me to raise various points to see what people think.

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via the
320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than any
traditional broadcasting route I've used. Although it does sometimes
hiccup
here - as per one night last week. Both the sound quality and the sheer
effortless dynamic range available is impressive.

snip

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?
http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac
I gather it's still experimental, but seems to have been going for a couple
of years.

I recently heard one of their own recordings of a Schubert Winterreise
performance by a couple of young Czechs that sounded thrillingly life-like
on my Linkwitz Orion open baffle loudspeakers.



I'm using Foobar2000 on Windows to twiddle the bits, but I imagine mplayer
could be tweaked to play it in Linux.



A secondary advantage for me is that if I listen to classical music from a
source that broadcasts in a language I don't understand, I'm insulated from
the constant mediation of experience that Radio Three now indulges in. I don't
feel my enjoyment of a piece of music is enhanced by being jollied along by
the announcer. OK, I'm a Grumpy Old Man.



Justin

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I've recently been enjoying two sources of music in particular. One is the
Proms using the 320k stream. The other is some new (to me) Jazz CDs. This
prompts me to raise various points to see what people think.

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via the
320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than any
traditional broadcasting route I've used. Although it does sometimes
hiccup
here - as per one night last week. Both the sound quality and the sheer
effortless dynamic range available is impressive.

snip

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?
http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac
I gather it's still experimental, but seems to have been going for a couple
of years.
I recently heard one of their own recordings of a Schubert Winterreise
performance by a couple of young Czechs that sounded amusingly life-like
on my Linkwitz Orion open baffle loudspeakers.

I'm using Foobar2000 on Windows to twiddle the bits, but I imagine mplayer
could be tweaked to play it in Linux.

A secondary advantage for me is that if I listen to classical music from a
source that broadcasts in a language I don't understand, I'm insulated from
the constant mediation of experience that Radio Three now indulges in. I
don't
feel my enjoyment of a piece of music is enhanced by being jollied along by
the announcer. OK, I'm a Grumpy Old Man.



Justin

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

In article , Justin Sellors
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via
the 320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than
any traditional broadcasting route I've used.

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?

No. Thanks for pointing it out. I'll give it a try

http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac I gather it's still
experimental, but seems to have been going for a couple of years.

I recently heard one of their own recordings of a Schubert Winterreise
performance by a couple of young Czechs that sounded thrillingly
life-like on my Linkwitz Orion open baffle loudspeakers.



I'm using Foobar2000 on Windows to twiddle the bits, but I imagine
mplayer could be tweaked to play it in Linux.


Just tried with interesting results. My copy of audiacious failed to
play the stream. (It plays local flac OK.) I may have made an error,
so I'll try again sometime.

Happily, ffplay plays the stream with no problems if I just use

ffplay http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac

in a terminal. Results in a 48k sample rate, so if that is the true
source rate (i.e. not upconverted somewhere from 44.1k) then it may
well be technically better than Radio 3. (A confusing factor here
is that the BBC tend to resample at the drop of a hat.)

Since you wrote "OGG/FLAC" I also tried '.ogg' and that also gets
a stream. Not checked yet, but I assume that it means that both
stream types are available, not that the stream codec changes without
the name extention altering.


A secondary advantage for me is that if I listen to classical music from
a source that broadcasts in a language I don't understand, I'm
insulated from the constant mediation of experience that Radio Three
now indulges in. I don't feel my enjoyment of a piece of music is
enhanced by being jollied along by the announcer. OK, I'm a Grumpy Old
Man.

You are not entirely alone. :-)


Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

In article , Justin Sellors
scribeth thus

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I've recently been enjoying two sources of music in particular. One is the
Proms using the 320k stream. The other is some new (to me) Jazz CDs. This
prompts me to raise various points to see what people think.

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via the
320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than any
traditional broadcasting route I've used. Although it does sometimes
hiccup
here - as per one night last week. Both the sound quality and the sheer
effortless dynamic range available is impressive.

snip

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?
http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac


This works fine in the http/s stream of VLC

Just copy 'n paste..:)



Justin




--
Tony Sayer

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Justin Sellors
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via
the 320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than
any traditional broadcasting route I've used.

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?

snip
Since you wrote "OGG/FLAC" I also tried '.ogg' and that also gets
a stream. Not checked yet, but I assume that it means that both
stream types are available, not that the stream codec changes without
the name extention altering.

Apparently it's a FLAC stream in an OGG container - this probably means more
to you than me!
Playing back with Foobar2000, the bottom left of the interface panel shows
"FLAC (a variable bit rate around 600kbps) 48000Hz stereo".

This is quite interesting -
http://www.cesnet.cz/doc/techzpravy/...c-encoding.pdf

Justin

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

In article , Justin Sellors
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Justin Sellors
wrote:

snip
Since you wrote "OGG/FLAC" I also tried '.ogg' and that also gets a
stream. Not checked yet, but I assume that it means that both stream
types are available, not that the stream codec changes without the
name extention altering.

Apparently it's a FLAC stream in an OGG container - this probably means
more to you than me!

Ah, yes. Sorry, the penny has now dropped! In effect Ogg is the transport
stream format/layer and that delivers the data encoded in the flac codec.
I'd been muddling up transport with codec.


Playing back with Foobar2000, the bottom left of
the interface panel shows "FLAC (a variable bit rate around 600kbps)
48000Hz stereo".

I just did a quick test and got a similar result averaged over about 10
mins. Averaged it came in a at just under 600kbps, but as you'd expect
it varied a lot with the music. So - although it averaged at just under
double the rate for the R3 HD streams - at times it peaked up to more
like three times the R3 HD rate.

This is quite interesting -
http://www.cesnet.cz/doc/techzpravy/...c-encoding.pdf

Thanks, yes. Looking at that I also found a couple of other English
docs on the work linked to the techzpravy page.


Interesting to see that they used Linux and open software. Goes nicely
with flac, etc. Quite a contrast to the BBC's closed Flash-controlled
approach.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

The problem is, first find yourself a shop that can spare the time to talk
to a customer, then find one which can bother to take the time to look at
catalogues and order things it does not have in stock, which is usually the
play it safe current stuff and a large heap of oldies compilations of
dubious quality.
The reason why you find these discs on web sites is its a niche market, or
perceived as such by the cash strapped high street stores.
Web sites do not have huge premises and staff so can and do obtain things
you want. its quite sad, but I suspect its economics.

Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I've recently been enjoying two sources of music in particular. One is the
Proms using the 320k stream. The other is some new (to me) Jazz CDs. This
prompts me to raise various points to see what people think.

Firstly, I am now of the opinion that the best way to get Proms is via the
320k stream. To me this delivers better results in general than any
traditional broadcasting route I've used. Although it does sometimes
hiccup
here - as per one night last week. Both the sound quality and the sheer
effortless dynamic range available is impressive.

Secondly, I wonder what kinds of music people think are - for them - the
most revealing choice to appreciate the sound via their audio setup. I'm
curious to know if this relates to people choosing audio equipment
(particularly speakers) with a specific type of input in mind, so
'optimise' for that at the risk of other source material not being so well
reproduced. e.g. I tend to notice a distinct difference in sound balance
between, say, Proms and old EMI classical recordings. So a system that
works well with one may not flatter the other.

Finally, I am wondering again about people being able to easily get 'new'
music of various kinds, and the ways in which a 'brave new world' of the
net may actually make this less convenient in some ways despite being
presented as being easier. e.g. I saw a review of a set of discs in
Stereophile magazine and then discovered when I asked a dealer that it was
a "limited edition only available directly from the label". So far as I
can
see, the magazine doesn't tell you.

This seems to be a trend for specialised discs of the kind audio mags
review and means you end up having to move towards almost "buying every
disc is an adventure of going to another website and giving someone else
you don't know your card info". Preceeded by "hunt the site". Am I the
only
person who thinks life would be simpler if any disc reviewed could be
bought openly via any dealer? Thus making some price competition possible,
as well as simplifying the process for the purchaser.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
The problem is, first find yourself a shop that can spare the time to
talk to a customer, then find one which can bother to take the time to
look at catalogues and order things it does not have in stock, which is
usually the play it safe current stuff and a large heap of oldies
compilations of dubious quality.

Which should raise other questions and not simply be taken as a "show
stopper" that is universally unavoidable.

I *have* found one or two dealers who *will* discuss what is available and
compile/supply lists, etc. You can find some others listed in the back of
some of the classical music mags, for example.

What I find curious is why so few people seem to have an interest in this.
I can appreciate that 'current pop' fans will simply use radio (streams)
and downloads and have a network of 'mates' to tell them what is good. But
that doesn't happen so much for classical, jazz, etc.


The reason why you find these discs on web sites is its a niche market,
or perceived as such by the cash strapped high street stores.

That explains the unimaginative thinking of "cash strapped high street
stores" on the basis that their managers have no clue or flair. The
surprise to me is as above - that almost none seem to have any thought of
creating alternatives that would attract by being a useful service. If you
want to stay in biz you need a 'selling point' that will draw customers to
you rather than the competition. Yet the almost universal reaction is that
this just means "in stock, quick delivery, cheap". What economists call the
"Race to the bottom" approach where the shoddy drives out the good.

It also conflates having a website with losing any ability to engage in
personal interactions with 'customers' and provide any service beyond "This
is what we have and we charge this much. Take it or sod off."[1] It is
quite possible to have a 'website' and also respond helpfully to *people*
and deal with them in they way they individually choose.

So maybe this is another example of the dumb 'management' that inflcts
itself on so much 'business' in the UK and elsewhere? No imagination or
thought about how to carve out a niche on the basis of providing what some
might prefer other than "the norm".

Can't easily requote any of my original message as you put it into your
sig.

[1] Mind you, that has a pedigree in audio. PJW more than once told a
prospective customer to "go forth" when they objected to some aspect of the
Quad kit like the colour scheme. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 11:58:50 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , Justin Sellors
scribeth thus
snip

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?
http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac


This works fine in the http/s stream of VLC

Just copy 'n paste..:)

VLC under Linux (Ubuntu) works for me. Thanks, Justin and Tony!

I also tried using a Squeezebox Touch (also Linux based). This did not
work - repeatedly displaying "Connecting.." "Buffering...".

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

"Chris Isbell" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Aug 2011 11:58:50 +0100, tony sayer wrote:

In article , Justin Sellors
scribeth thus
snip

Re. your first point Jim, have you heard the uncompressed OGG/FLAC
broadcasts from Ceský rozhlas D-Dur?
http://radio.cesnet.cz:8000/cro-d-dur.flac


This works fine in the http/s stream of VLC

Just copy 'n paste..:)

VLC under Linux (Ubuntu) works for me. Thanks, Justin and Tony!

I also tried using a Squeezebox Touch (also Linux based). This did not
work - repeatedly displaying "Connecting.." "Buffering...".

Chris, have a look at the fifth post on this page:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showth...=OGG+container
shows a way which might work - I've not tried it myself. There was some talk
from Slim Devices Developer "andyg" that they would look at Squeezebox
handling OggFLAC natively in the newer devices such as the Touch and Radio,
but it seems to be well down the feature request list.

Justin

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Justin Sellors
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Justin Sellors
wrote:

snip
Since you wrote "OGG/FLAC" I also tried '.ogg' and that also gets a
stream. Not checked yet, but I assume that it means that both stream
types are available, not that the stream codec changes without the
name extention altering.

Apparently it's a FLAC stream in an OGG container - this probably means
more to you than me!

Since OGG is not a bit-perfect format, and FLAC depends on bit-perfect
transmission, it is more likely that it is a FLAC container with an OGG file
inside.

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

In article , Arny
Krueger
wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Justin Sellors
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Justin
Sellors wrote:

snip
Since you wrote "OGG/FLAC" I also tried '.ogg' and that also gets a
stream. Not checked yet, but I assume that it means that both
stream types are available, not that the stream codec changes
without the name extention altering.

Apparently it's a FLAC stream in an OGG container - this probably
means more to you than me!

Since OGG is not a bit-perfect format, and FLAC depends on bit-perfect
transmission, it is more likely that it is a FLAC container with an OGG
file inside.

Maybe we are talking at cross-purposes here. My understanding is that Flac
is the (lossless) data compression method/format and that OGG is the
transport format/layer ("container") which here conveys ("contains") the
FLAC data.

When I read the documents on the originator's website (fortunately for me,
in English!) they seem to have chosen Ogg as the transport layer and
flac as the compression scheme as they wanted 'open source' methods
to obtain lossless streaming. And my reading is that they think this
is what they have achieved. Maybe I've misunderstood this, so I will
check pun alert! when I get a chance...

So whereas the BBC use a Flash transport to send AAC+, the Czechs are
using Ogg to transport Flac IIUC.

My initial confusion was between 'Ogg' and 'Ogg Vorbis' as I'd fallen
into the trap of thinking one was shorthand for the other. But AIUI Vorbis
is one family of data reduction/compression scheme, and is the one most
often associated with the Ogg transport ("container") layer.

Hence "Ogg Vorbis" may be a 'lossy' system, but due to the 'Vorbis' part,
not the 'Ogg'.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

Le 10/08/11 17:48, Jim Lesurf a écrit :

(snip)


Interesting to see that they used Linux and open software. Goes nicely
with flac, etc. Quite a contrast to the BBC's closed Flash-controlled
approach.

Slainte,

Jim


Hi Jim,
You can dispense with Aunties' proprietary radio player by pasting the
following link into you favourite player:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls


--
Froggy

Baldrick: I've got this big growth in the middle of my face.
Blackadder: That's your nose, Baldrick.

(Blackadder the Third)

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

On Thu, 11 Aug 2011 13:50:58 +0100, Justin Sellors wrote:

"Chris Isbell" wrote in message
...

I also tried using a Squeezebox Touch (also Linux based). This did not
work - repeatedly displaying "Connecting.." "Buffering...".

Chris, have a look at the fifth post on this page:
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showth...&highlight=OGG
+container
shows a way which might work - I've not tried it myself. There was some
talk from Slim Devices Developer "andyg" that they would look at
Squeezebox handling OggFLAC natively in the newer devices such as the
Touch and Radio, but it seems to be well down the feature request list.

Thanks for the suggestion. However, this seems to rely on running a local
Squeezebox server. Since I do not currently have a home server, this
would have to be my laptop. If this is on then I can use it to stream
directly.

My reason for wanting to use the SqueezeBox is that my laptop has a noisy
fan and disk drive (and also takes a while to start up) whereas the
SqueezeBox is just another input source to my HiFi.

Thanks,


Chris.

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

froggy wrote...

You can dispense with Aunties' proprietary radio player by pasting the
following link into you favourite player:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls

Thanks for the link which works in TapinRadio, an excellent Internet
radio tuner that can record the above stream as *.aac without
transcoding. Windows only,sorry Jim.
http://www.raimersoft.com/tapinradio.aspx


--
Ken O'Meara
http://www.btinternet.com/~unsteadyken/

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

In article ,
UnsteadyKen
wrote:

froggy wrote...

You can dispense with Aunties' proprietary radio player by pasting the
following link into you favourite player:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls

Thanks for the link

I've not yet had a chance to try it, so don't know if the above is the 320k
AAC+ stream or one of the lower streams provided for 'net radios'. If it
is, I assume that software like ffmpeg, etc, will play it OK. (You may have
noticed that I tend to prefer software that just 'does the task' rather
than have much of a GUI. All helps cut down on CPU flogging... ;- )

which works in TapinRadio, an excellent Internet
radio tuner that can record the above stream as *.aac without
transcoding. Windows only,sorry Jim.
http://www.raimersoft.com/tapinradio.aspx

That's OK. I can easily record net radio streams if I wish [1], and also
the iPlayer ones. Indeed, I've been recording proms for both later
listening and analysis purpose - similar to previous years where I've put
some of the findings onto the website. So far as I can tell, I get the same
results as the BBC when clock-rate differences are taken into account.

TBH My real objection to the BBC using Flash is that it means they are
using a closed source system which even *they* do not fully understand.
Thus it is sometimes between awkward and impossible to spot, diagnose, and
improve when you detect a flaw or what suits call an "issue"... The perils
of combining 'outsourcing' in the suit-speak sense with 'closed source' as
the deliverable.

Personally, I'd love to ban any public-funded body from doing that. All
purchased software should come with source code, and all details of all
contracts should be public knowledge. Our money. But this is a political
view, not an audio one. :-)

I don't personally mind the BBC using Flash too much from the Linux POV -
although others do object for reasons I sympathise with. What *does* bother
me is that this acts to exclude those who would prefer to use other OSs for
which no sufficiently up-to-date Flash work-alike is available. Ironic that
the BBC therefore blocks access to the iPlayer to some who prefer a UK
commercial OS to a USA one.

However I also have sympathy with the BBC. They get flak (as opposed to
flac :-) ) from all sides. So would be roundly attacked by the Daily Maul,
etc, if they dared to "undermine business" by not making the attempt to
"control" the streaming of "commercial" content. Talking to people inside
the Beeb I'm quite sure they'd love to make streams more easily and widely
accessible, and push up quality - if the suits would allow.

Slainte,

Jim

[1] FWIW for recording raw streams I find my RO box works more
conveniently. But TBH I'm generally happy with the Linux-based decoders to
LPCM for listening, etc.

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

Le 12/08/11 10:55, Jim Lesurf a écrit :

I've not yet had a chance to try it, so don't know if the above is the 320k
AAC+ stream or one of the lower streams provided for 'net radios'.


It's the "320" stream...

That's OK. I can easily record net radio streams if I wish [1], and also
the iPlayer ones. Indeed, I've been recording proms for both later
listening and analysis purpose - similar to previous years where I've put
some of the findings onto the website.

A low down on how you do your recordings under Linux would be most
welcome. BTW what's a "RO box" when it's at home?


Personally, I'd love to ban any public-funded body from doing that. All
purchased software should come with source code, and all details of all
contracts should be public knowledge. Our money. But this is a political
view, not an audio one. :-)


Hear, Hear.
A few years ago Radio France had an .ogg stream for its online radios.
Sadly discontinued....


[1] FWIW for recording raw streams I find my RO box works more
conveniently. But TBH I'm generally happy with the Linux-based decoders to
LPCM for listening, etc.



--
Froggy

Baldrick: I've got this big growth in the middle of my face.
Blackadder: That's your nose, Baldrick.

(Blackadder the Third)

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

Le 12/08/11 01:44, UnsteadyKen a écrit :

froggy wrote...

You can dispense with Aunties' proprietary radio player by pasting the
following link into you favourite player:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/listen/live/r3_aaclca.pls

Thanks for the link which works in TapinRadio, an excellent Internet
radio tuner that can record the above stream as *.aac without
transcoding. Windows only,sorry Jim.
http://www.raimersoft.com/tapinradio.aspx



I've yet to try TapinRadio.
For the moment I'm using RadioSure which also records .aac without
transcoding....

http://www.radiosure.com/

--
Froggy

Baldrick: I've got this big growth in the middle of my face.
Blackadder: That's your nose, Baldrick.

(Blackadder the Third)

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

In article , froggy
wrote:
Le 12/08/11 10:55, Jim Lesurf a écrit :

I've not yet had a chance to try it, so don't know if the above is the
320k AAC+ stream or one of the lower streams provided for 'net
radios'.


It's the "320" stream...

OK, thanks. That sounds promising. :-)

That's OK. I can easily record net radio streams if I wish [1], and
also the iPlayer ones. Indeed, I've been recording proms for both
later listening and analysis purpose - similar to previous years where
I've put some of the findings onto the website.

A low down on how you do your recordings under Linux would be most
welcome.

I do this in a way that is an odd mix of the modern and very old fashioned.
I guess this is another example of my erm 'individual' approach - or do I
mean 'weird and perverse'?... 9-] But the aim is to keep things simple so
far as the 'computing' side is concerned. Complexity breeds sources of
flaws.

I use a USB device to feed the output to a dedicated digital recorder. Have
various ways to do this, but for example using something like a Halide
Bridge to get spdif from USB with reliable timing and no sample drops or
repeats. Then feed this to the spdif input of my Tascam HDP2 recorder. So
that just records the sample stream and writes it to a CF card as Broadcast
Wave Files with the samples as the LPCM data payload.

In practice I also tend to run the spdif though something like a DACMagic
(or use the DACMagic for both USB to SPDIF and as a DAC) to get a result I
listen to while recording.

I do it this way with the ALSA settings that make the data path as simple
direct and clean as I can. No 'bongs' from desktop actions or mixing with
other sound sources or arbitrary value recalculations or resamplings.

You can use ALSA to internally 'loop back' or 'tee' the output and
essentially send or copy it to a file. Eample of the "everything is a file"
philosophy of Linux. So since the *soundcard* is "just a file", all you do
in principle is give the ALSA system a different 'file name' for the output
to be delivered to. To know more about that you'd need to check out the
ALSA pages.

I think some people with suitable hardware can also just make a connection
between the spdif output and input of their soundcard and run 'arecord' or
some other basic command to record what comes from the soundcard.

However I've never really bothered with 'internal' recording or such a
physical loopback.

Many people use overlaying processes like Jack(d) or Pulse to control this
kind of thing. More GUI-friendly than ALSA. But I personally think they
cause as many extra problems as they solve because they just add
complexity.

That doesn't require any external hardware. But being old fashioned I'm
more comfortable with an external recorder. It also gives me extras like
being able to check the clock frequency and break the recording at chosen
instants. So for example, generate one file for the first half of something
and another for the second with no lost samples.

Personally, for most purposes I'm generally happy to record LPCM from what
is produced by a suitable prog/process that can convert the input stream
format. So may use in the path something like gstreamer or ffmpeg, etc. But
I have tested these in advance first to satisfy myself that they do a
decent job. If I want the raw stream I tend to use my Iyonix (see below).

With my Iyonix I wrote a small app I called (with amazing originality)
"!RadioTimes" that lets me do timed recordings of a net radio stream. In
that case usually to RAM without listening. But for obvious reasons that
doesn't work with the iPlayer as the Flash layer gets in the way. The URL
you gave may work, though, so I may give it a try when I get a chance[1]

FWIW I made a copy of !RadioTimes available to readers of 'Archive'
magazine (for RO users) some years ago. Those articles aren't yet on my
website, but I can put up a copy if any RO user is interested.

BTW what's a "RO box" when it's at home?

RO = RISC OS. The operating system that runs on my Iyonix computer. Small
light desktop and GUI with apps I like. This is an arm-cpu-specific OS that
grew out of the old 'Acorn' company. Works best on specific hardware like
'BeagleBoard'. But you can also run in using emulators. e.g. I can also run
it on my Linux boxes using 'RPCEmu'. It is also currently being converted
to open source and having some hardware generalisation and abstraction
added to make it runnable on other hardware. Look up things like 'RISC OS
Open Ltd' (ROOL) if interested.

Slainte,

Jim

[1] Presently busy with some other things. One being listening to some new
Jazz CDs! Very impressed by one I was listening to this afternoon by Gerry
Mulligan and the Concert Jazz Band. [ Poll Winners Records PWR 27264 ]

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Proms, 320k, and the sound of music
 

On 11/08/2011 13:57, Arny Krueger wrote:
it is more likely that it is a FLAC container with an OGG file
inside.


It's more likely that you're a dickhead with a cretin inside.