CD copy protection
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
. ..
"Glenn Booth" wrote in message
...
Hi,

In message , Jim H
writes

[big snip - nice post by the way]

But the distribution model for digital audio isn't comparable in
these
ways - you CAN realistically transmit and record with home
equipment. I
can download a 640meg wav in 2.7 hours, or the mp3 equivalent in a
few
minutes, at a cost of pennies. The idea that data must be put in
little
boxes, driven about in vans, and sold on expensive real estate for
the
transaction to be valid is too stupid for words.

This is a big part of the problem for the 'Big 5' music
distributors.
They know that we know that offering music for download (legally -
charging for it like Apple are doing) removes a big chunk of the
distribution and sales costs. It introduces some new costs, but they
are
pretty trivial by comparison - at least an order of magnitude lower.
However, the price per track for a download of a compressed song
from
Apple is 99 cents, making a typical album cost between 8 and 15 US
Dollars; about the same as a CD of the same music. How does that
work?


It doesn't and it won't.

We did this one some little while back when I mentioned that, a couple
of
years ago, I was reading something from some rippers to the effect
that, at
10 - 20 cents a track, they (the rippers) were saying they would
sooner buy
the music than download it for nowt but they weren't prepared to pay
'hardware' prices for it. I remarked at the time it was typical
'big-business' arrogance and greed ****ing up their thinking yet
again.

Now the 'controversial' bit - IMO, it's the 'Royalties' bit that cocks
it
all up......




You get less for the same money - the punter ends up with lower
quality
music and no 'hardware'; artwork, track lists, information sleeves
(all
the stuff that makes LPs fun to collect, oddly enough)


Oh yuss.... :-)

The sleeves on LPs was the only reason I kept mine.



and it costs the
same. That dog don't hunt, at least for me.


Or a few million others, worldwide......


--
RobH
The future's dim, the future's mono.

CD copy protection
 

"Jim H" wrote in message
...
Well, the less said about Microsoft future plans the better IMHO.

Agreed. Once you buy software it should be yours for good.

How then did you install Q3 from the piece of paper?

;-)

;-)

One thing I noticed is that most computer games companies
charge more to replace a console game than a pc one.
Any thoughts why that is?

One possible argument is that more console games come on DVDs, whereas
the
pc tends to be CD. I doubt this is the real reson though. More likely
that
pc users are more likely able to easily download a copy.

No, but then they don't decide the law.
But they are a hell of a lot more "influential" with the law makers
than
you or I.
Who is Tony Blair more likely to listen to?

I agree, but I'd say a few million p2p users, and voters, aren't as
silent
as you might think.
I bloody well hope so.



I've no real idea about the "fair" argument. I've been buying CDs
since
1986 and, on average, only paid about £10 per disk. Taking into
account
inflation I'm not unhappy with that.

By "fair" I mean not sold for excessively move than the cost to
produce.
The record companies effectively have a monopoly on a certain
artiist's
music, with that comes responsibility.

Please note that I'm not taking the record producers' side but they
would say that the costs of the stuff they produce is spread across all
the artists they produce and for every megabucks star there are 99 who
don't make a profit.



I'd say that my tuner reception is near cd quality.
I'm not sure I'd go that far.

I do live in very close line of sight of the transmitter. Maybe the
comparison to cd was a bit much though.

This assumes that if there isn't a physical distribution method then
the
music will be available in the quality I want, not what
Microsoft/Apple
or whoever allows me to have.

True again, but then the quality of ANY distribution is held back by
the
people who decide the standards. The ideal would be making the digital
masters avaliable at any quality, via bit striping, up to and
including 1:1
copies.
I'd certainly vote for that but, again, can't see the record labels
allowing it.



I thought about this and have some kit from quietpc.com but I want a
latest and greatest PC with whoopiedo graphics card etc.
I don't particularly want a pc & monitor in my living room though.


I have a Athlon XP 2100+ running at 2300+ specs, and GF4200. Both are
cooled by the respective Zalman kit. The cpu heatsink uses a 12v fan
at 4v,
setup to take air direct from outside the case via an old bass duct.
There
are another few tweeks, but that's the basic system. It'll play all
modern
games, inc stuff like Tenebrae quake.

I'm not sure if I can call it silent, but at the normal listening
position
the fan noise is below the slight background hum from my main
speakers. You
can hear it at night if you listen out for it though.

You get hum from your main speakers!?
That's not acceptable IMHO.


Cheers

--
RobH
The future's dim, the future's mono.

silent pc (was CD copy protection)
 

Hi Jim:

"Jim H" wrote in message
...
Hi Jim - way OT, but do you have a spec/supplier/cost of your quiet pc.
How
is it coping with the hot weather? My next project you see.

Thanks, Rob

I'm not sure if this is completely OT. An audiophile needs a quiet
environment. Sorry if this gets a bit technical at times, ask away!

well, I think so! I have dabbled in this so I've got some idea.

I think I mentioned already that its an Athlon XP 2100+, this is maybe the
worst possible choice, being the 'Palomino' core. AFAIK this has the
greatest heat dissipation of all recent CPUs, as much as 70w. If I were to
start again I'd use a 'Barton' core cpu.

Yep, I'll look into this nearer the time (next 3 months). I gather we're on
the cusp of some architecture change, so the 32 bit processors will finish
at about 3 gig. Might consider intel ...

The cpu is cooled using the heatsink here
http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnps6000Cu.htm but, instead of
using warm air from the case to cool it I'm ducting with a 110mm bass
port,
extending from a hole cut into the oposite side of the case, over the
'sink.

Got one of those, and the supplied fan is OK on it's lowest setting. At the
moment the case sides are off, for heat reasons (see hd later)

The overall system is slightly overclocked. I think the FSB is about 142
(133 default). The video card is pushed a little harder - its a GeForce4
Ti4200, cooled with this passive 'sink
http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/zm80-hp.htm and reflashed to run
at
310core/540ram (default is 250/440). There is a slow fan over the card
that
only comes on in 3d games and the pd is at 3.4v. In graphics heavy games I
get (at best) a 20% increase in performance.

Not too bothered about games although doom 3 may change that. Brought up on
doom y'know. I don't think I'll overclock, no real need atm.

Power supply is a Zalamn 300w model, with the fan replaced with a super
quiet panaflo. The Panaflo fans are, AFAIK, the quietest avaliable. I have
two more Panaflo, at 5v for exhaust from the back of the case. All fans
are
held to the case using elastic mounts, to reduce vibration.

I've got one of those 300w quiet pc ones - about as good as an actively
cooled psu gets I should think. I agree with you on panaflo. I bought a
'silent' papst, which wasn't.

The local HDD is a 60GB Seagate Barracuda V. AFAIK this is the quietest
HDD
avaliable, small, but single platter, and so slightly quieter than the
bigger versions. I've got the drive on a piece of foam to decouple it from
the case, with ram heatsinks epoxy'd to the sides to keep it cool. I also
run a file server tuched away in a cupboard, so the small-ish size isn't
such a concern. In future I plan to set up a boot server on the LAN and
have no local drive at all.

1x80gb, 1x40gb seagate barracuda 4. They are pretty quiet, as in quiet
enough, but mine run really hot. You can't keep a finger on them for more
than a few seconds unless a macho point needs to be made. I don't really
know why, they're connected as normal ide devices on a raid controller.
Hence the sides are off.

The whole inside of the case is lined with acoustic foam from quiet pc,
and
some left over wedge shaped foam. (btw, so is my sub!) This stuff weighs a
ton!

With the weather it was getting a bit hot, so I turned the fans up a few
volts. The CPU will normally be about 50degrees c, which is high but well
within spec. Running linux I once had 3 months uptime (until some idiot
mailed me an excel doc!)

My cpu (xp 1600) runs at about 50 too - with the sides off. I think your
intake idea is the way to go here.Without wirshing to take this to extremes,
my tft monitor just called it a day. The whine from the old crt I'm having
to use is quite noticeable ...


Hope some of that may help. I suppose I've gone pretty far with this
project, but the results have been worth it.



Very interesting - thanks.

Rob

silent pc (was CD copy protection)
 

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:55:42 +0100, Kurt Hamster wrote:

On Mon, 14 Jul 2003 16:24:04 +0100, RJH used
to say...

My cpu (xp 1600) runs at about 50 too - with the sides off. I think your
intake idea is the way to go here.Without wirshing to take this to
extremes,
my tft monitor just called it a day. The whine from the old crt I'm
having
to use is quite noticeable ...

As a point of reference, my XP2400+ (I think it has a Barton core BICBW)
with the Zalman cooler is currently running at 34 degrees C, it's in a
Lian-Li case with an Enermax 450W PS, one case side is off, but it is
shared with 6 HDs.

The ambient room temp is currently 27 degrees.

What speed are you running the fan at? I've got mine a little below the
minimum setting it'd normally no. With the fan at full 12v I get 35-ish
temps.



--
Jim

silent pc (was CD copy protection)
 

[many snips]

Not too bothered about games although doom 3 may change that. Brought up
on
doom y'know. I don't think I'll overclock, no real need atm.

I'm playing Tenebrae, a port of the original Quake quite a bit to avoid
working, it has some similar graphics to DoomIII. Since I overclocked the
video card it can stand up to this pretty well.

Power supply is a Zalamn 300w model, with the fan replaced with a super
quiet panaflo. The Panaflo fans are, AFAIK, the quietest avaliable. I
have
two more Panaflo, at 5v for exhaust from the back of the case. All fans
are
held to the case using elastic mounts, to reduce vibration.

I've got one of those 300w quiet pc ones - about as good as an actively
cooled psu gets I should think. I agree with you on panaflo. I bought a
'silent' papst, which wasn't.

The other trick I do is to mount the fan on the outside of the PSU, and
have it pointing inwards. Because of the thermal control the cooler air
slows the fan down. I had to make a hood so that its not just sucking the
exhaust back in though.

The local HDD is a 60GB Seagate Barracuda V. AFAIK this is the quietest
HDD
avaliable, small, but single platter, and so slightly quieter than the
bigger versions. I've got the drive on a piece of foam to decouple it
from
the case, with ram heatsinks epoxy'd to the sides to keep it cool. I
also
run a file server tuched away in a cupboard, so the small-ish size isn't
such a concern. In future I plan to set up a boot server on the LAN and
have no local drive at all.

1x80gb, 1x40gb seagate barracuda 4. They are pretty quiet, as in quiet
enough, but mine run really hot. You can't keep a finger on them for more
than a few seconds unless a macho point needs to be made. I don't really
know why, they're connected as normal ide devices on a raid controller.
Hence the sides are off.

I think the specified max temperature of a 'cuda is 55°c. The HDDs are
SMART complient, so can report their temperatures through sofware. At the
moment it's 40°, which is hot but ok. With 'cudas the main noise is
vibrations transmitted through the case, hence decoupling. The bay with my
drive is lined with double thickness of quiet pc foam, not much noise gets
out.

A lot of electro-mechanical devices run quite happily at temperatures too
hot to touch so I wouldn't worry too much about it. Still, might be worth
downloading speedfan (http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php) to check.

One other thing I trie is putting the pc by the window so that the duct was
taking air from outside. Worked well but not really practical.

--
Jim

CD copy protection
 

"RobH" wrote in
message ...

"Steven Templeton" wrote in message
...
just buy it then take it back saying its a faulty disc if it won't
play

those in power will soon get the message

I'm not so sure. They're simply relying on the majority of consumers not
being affected and sod the rest.


EMI are quoting a returns rate of 0.02% which is certainly acceptable for
them.

Roy.

silent pc (was CD copy protection)
 

Jim H wrote in message ...
(...)

Thought I'd butt in with a few silent PC comments (IYSWIM!) since I've
been playing about with this recently; in fact, my PC is my HiFi.

(...)

The cpu is cooled using the heatsink here
http://www.zalman.co.kr/english/product/cnps6000Cu.htm but, instead of
using warm air from the case to cool it I'm ducting with a 110mm bass port,
extending from a hole cut into the oposite side of the case, over the
'sink.

I'm using the same heatsink, though it's cooling an XP1800 in my case
(in both cases of my case, ha!). There's no fancy added ducting,
though I do have a Lian-Li PC-6070 case. This is supposedly designed
for silence, although a dedicated customiser would do a better job.
For example, the 'sound deadening' material is simply a single layer
of crappy foam which is applied exclusively to the front door of the
case. Rubbish! The intake fans are quiet (maybe Panaflos?) though, and
cooling appears to be good (PC at 44-47deg, or 77 for core temp).


Power supply is a Zalamn 300w model, with the fan replaced with a super
quiet panaflo.

I use a Nexus NX-3000. Performs well.


(...)

The local HDD is a 60GB Seagate Barracuda V. AFAIK this is the quietest HDD
avaliable, small, but single platter, and so slightly quieter than the
bigger versions. I've got the drive on a piece of foam to decouple it from
the case, with ram heatsinks epoxy'd to the sides to keep it cool. I also
run a file server tuched away in a cupboard, so the small-ish size isn't
such a concern. In future I plan to set up a boot server on the LAN and
have no local drive at all.

IME, the HDD noise is the real bugger to kill. I have 3 drives (20Gb
Barracuda, and 2x120Gb Maxtor summat-or-others IIRC), each in a
Smartdrive 2000 enclosure. These enclosures are good, but they do not
kill all drive whine.

(...)
With the weather it was getting a bit hot, so I turned the fans up a few
volts.

I can run my 'silent' system at 90F ambient with no overheating
problems, though my system is lower spec than yours (regarding CPU and
GFX card, anyway - my GFX card is an old DDR Radeon from which I've
unplugged the fan! Hasn't melted yet...) I also have some 'round'
drive cable that might allow for better airflow through the case.



Hope some of that may help. I suppose I've gone pretty far with this
project, but the results have been worth it.

I'm not 100% convinced that the silent PC represents good value for
money, at least not if you are looking for a truly silent PC for
sensible cash. For example, my system is very quiet wrt a 'normal' PC,
but it is still audible from the PC seat. (It isn't audible from my
HiFi listening position). I think that an entirely inaudible PC would
take a stack of cash, and many compromises, performance-wise.

I think that HDD noise is the real sticking point and when I swap my
drives out in the (distant) future, I'd certainly spend some time
checking da specs.

Steve.

silent pc (was CD copy protection)
 

Jim H wrote in message ...
(...)

I've never valued aluminium cases so highly. Alu is a better conductor af
heat than copper, but *much* more heat is expelled via air than through the
case.

Indeed, though my Al case has a noticeably more diffuse 'hot spot'.
Could be due to the fan arrangement vs. my old case though.


They *do*, however look cool and fit in rather nicely with aluminium
fronted HiFi equipment, esspecially Lian-Lis.

Yup (and mine IS my HiFi).



I let a mate, who works painting cars, loose on my case panels. Its now
bright yellow ;)

Nice. I thought about a custom paint job from Wahoo computers, but the
prices were a tad steep.



IME, the HDD noise is the real bugger to kill. I have 3 drives (20Gb
Barracuda, and 2x120Gb Maxtor summat-or-others IIRC), each in a
Smartdrive 2000 enclosure. These enclosures are good, but they do not
kill all drive whine.

Why the next step for me will be no local hard drives at all. A fibre
conection to a file/boot server should be more than enough.

Nice, but too much of a palaver for me to bother with. Good for the
fully paid-up geeks tho'.


(...)

I agree my silent system isn't cost effective, but then how many people on
this ng are scared to add up the total cost of their HiFi?

I guess ... no-one!

Anyway, 'it's worth it if you think it's worth it'.

the total cost of my base unit was under £1000. And you can effectively
convert ANY pc to silent if you bought longer cables and put it in the next
room ;-)

Ah, but how would the IR remote work then?



ok, this is my 1st post here under the influence so go easy!

Your father smells of elderberries!

Steve.

silent pc (was CD copy protection and getting more OT)
 

On 16 Jul 2003 14:45:34 -0700, Steve G wrote:

Jim H wrote in message
...
(...)

I've never valued aluminium cases so highly. Alu is a better conductor
af heat than copper, but *much* more heat is expelled via air than
through the case.

Indeed, though my Al case has a noticeably more diffuse 'hot spot'.
Could be due to the fan arrangement vs. my old case though.

Perhaps, the larger size of most Lian-Lis can only help airflow.

They *do*, however look cool and fit in rather nicely with aluminium
fronted HiFi equipment, esspecially Lian-Lis.

Yup (and mine IS my HiFi).

This interests me. What do you mean exactly? I'm guessing that you must
have at least one other HiFi component (not counting speakers) - an
amplifier of some kind.
There are quite a few Aluminium fronted PC cases around now that are
designed to fit in a HiFI stack, but so far I've never seen a machine that
IS a whole HiFi!


I let a mate, who works painting cars, loose on my case panels. Its now
bright yellow ;)

Nice. I thought about a custom paint job from Wahoo computers, but the
prices were a tad steep.

Yeah, I get a lot of coments about it. Makes a change from my other beige
machines.


IME, the HDD noise is the real bugger to kill. I have 3 drives (20Gb
Barracuda, and 2x120Gb Maxtor summat-or-others IIRC), each in a
Smartdrive 2000 enclosure. These enclosures are good, but they do not
kill all drive whine.

Why the next step for me will be no local hard drives at all. A fibre
conection to a file/boot server should be more than enough.

Nice, but too much of a palaver for me to bother with. Good for the
fully paid-up geeks tho'.

I run the network for my building, so I've got plenty of the junk kicking
about anyway. Means I get cheaper rent and free 2Meg iternet.

[snip]

the total cost of my base unit was under £1000. And you can effectively
convert ANY pc to silent if you bought longer cables and put it in the
next room ;-)

Ah, but how would the IR remote work then?

You could put the usb reciever under the monitor. Or use a RF wireless
mouse.


ok, this is my 1st post here under the influence so go easy!

Your father smells of elderberries!

Yeah and your mother is a hampster!

--
Jim

silent pc (was CD copy protection and getting more OT)
 

Jim H wrote in message ...
(...)

Yup (and mine IS my HiFi).

This interests me. What do you mean exactly? I'm guessing that you must
have at least one other HiFi component (not counting speakers) - an
amplifier of some kind.

Active speakers.


There are quite a few Aluminium fronted PC cases around now that are
designed to fit in a HiFI stack, but so far I've never seen a machine that
IS a whole HiFi!

I thought about those HiFi-stylee cases, but they were all too small
to fit my kit in, alas.

I guess my HiFiPC is really the CD player + pre + music storage.


(...)!

Ah, but how would the IR remote work then?

You could put the usb reciever under the monitor. Or use a RF wireless
mouse.

Wonder if the RF would interfere with the 'HiFi' bit?




ok, this is my 1st post here under the influence so go easy!

Your father smells of elderberries!

Yeah and your mother is a hampster!

I fart in your general direction!

Steve.