DTTV TXs and 4G
 

I've just put a quick page up at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/dttv.html

This is to show the results I've produced having obtained a set of data for
the current UK DTTV TXs and the changes intended for 4G. I'll write the
blurb later on, but thought some people would find the maps of interest.

I've posted this message to rec.audio as well as digital-tv because of the
relevance to audio (i.e. sound radio) listeners. A year or two ago I did
similar maps for DAB and VHF. But at that time I didn't have the matching
TX data for DTTV. And of course if 4G upsets DTTV reception anyone wanting
to use DTTV for sound radio will be affected!

There are three PNG maps on the page. One simply shows all the TXs above
100W EIRP. The second shows which ones will be changed to clear space for
4G. The third shows the ones which will - if things go to OfCom's cunning
plan - use ch59 and/or 60 when the clearance is done. These second maps
extend down to lower powers.

Note that the sizes of the circles DO NOT show the coverage areas! The
diameters of the circles simply indicate the TX nominal ERPs. The idea is
just to show where main/high-power TXs are affected, and where lower power
ones are involved.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

DTTV TXs and 4G
 

One thing that puzzles me though is the return signals. Presumably this
means that everyone with 4g connections have to be within transmit range of
a mast or aerial. I'd have thought these would be the most likely
interference sources myself and harder to sort as there will be many and all
portable probably.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I've just put a quick page up at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/dttv.html

This is to show the results I've produced having obtained a set of data
for
the current UK DTTV TXs and the changes intended for 4G. I'll write the
blurb later on, but thought some people would find the maps of interest.

I've posted this message to rec.audio as well as digital-tv because of the
relevance to audio (i.e. sound radio) listeners. A year or two ago I did
similar maps for DAB and VHF. But at that time I didn't have the matching
TX data for DTTV. And of course if 4G upsets DTTV reception anyone wanting
to use DTTV for sound radio will be affected!

There are three PNG maps on the page. One simply shows all the TXs above
100W EIRP. The second shows which ones will be changed to clear space for
4G. The third shows the ones which will - if things go to OfCom's cunning
plan - use ch59 and/or 60 when the clearance is done. These second maps
extend down to lower powers.

Note that the sizes of the circles DO NOT show the coverage areas! The
diameters of the circles simply indicate the TX nominal ERPs. The idea is
just to show where main/high-power TXs are affected, and where lower power
ones are involved.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

DTTV TXs and 4G
 

Brian Gaff wrote:
One thing that puzzles me though is the return signals. Presumably this
means that everyone with 4g connections have to be within transmit range of
a mast or aerial. I'd have thought these would be the most likely
interference sources myself and harder to sort as there will be many and all
portable probably.

They will also be well out of band for the TV front ends.

The separation may even have been designed on that basis, so that only
transmitters with a predictable location would be real problems.

DTTV TXs and 4G
 

Are you actually implying this was thought through by someone with a
technical bent. Must be a first..
Brian

--
Brian Gaff....Note, this account does not accept Bcc: email.
graphics are great, but the blind can't hear them
Email:
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________


"David Woolley" wrote in message
...
Brian Gaff wrote:
One thing that puzzles me though is the return signals. Presumably this
means that everyone with 4g connections have to be within transmit range
of a mast or aerial. I'd have thought these would be the most likely
interference sources myself and harder to sort as there will be many and
all portable probably.

They will also be well out of band for the TV front ends.

The separation may even have been designed on that basis, so that only
transmitters with a predictable location would be real problems.

DTTV TXs and 4G
 

I've now written the blurb and improved the appearance of the maps. The
results are now at

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/DTTV/DTTVand4G.html

If you have problems with getting DTTV during the coming year or so you may
find it useful to check your location and local transmitters against the
maps. May help you decide if 4G may be the reason.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

DTTV TXs and 4G
 

On Nov 23, 9:53*am, Jim Lesurf wrote:
http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/DTTV/DTTVand4G.html

Thanks for that. It confirms my worst fears: we are on the extreme
fringe of reception from Tacolneston, with a mobile phone tower less
than a mile away in roughly the same direction. Any 'mitigation
scheme' won't be a lot of use to us - we've got 9 (yes nine!) TVs in
different rooms fed from a UHF distribution amplifier in the loft: we
are not going to be given a free satellite alternative for that lot
are we?! There's no wiring provision for the dual-feeds needed for
DSAT, and anyway set-top-boxes are no substitute for TVs with
integrated DTT tuners, especially when wall-mounted.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

DTTV TXs and 4G
 

Richard Russell wrote:
fringe of reception from Tacolneston, with a mobile phone tower less
than a mile away in roughly the same direction. Any 'mitigation

There is no certainty that that particular tower will be used for 4G.

DTTV TXs and 4G
 

In article
s.com, Richard Russell scribeth thus
On Nov 23, 9:53*am, Jim Lesurf wrote:
http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/DTTV/DTTVand4G.html

Thanks for that. It confirms my worst fears: we are on the extreme
fringe of reception from Tacolneston, with a mobile phone tower less
than a mile away in roughly the same direction. Any 'mitigation
scheme' won't be a lot of use to us - we've got 9 (yes nine!) TVs in
different rooms fed from a UHF distribution amplifier in the loft: we
are not going to be given a free satellite alternative for that lot
are we?! There's no wiring provision for the dual-feeds needed for
DSAT, and anyway set-top-boxes are no substitute for TVs with
integrated DTT tuners, especially when wall-mounted.

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

There no other TX available at all?..

It might not be that bad after all, at that range..

Albeit close to the channels of interest..
--
Tony Sayer

DTTV TXs and 4G
 

On Nov 23, 8:07*pm, tony sayer wrote:
There no other TX available at all?..

Yes, but not for our 'preferred' region. We get fringe coverage from
four TXs: Tacolneston, Waltham, Sandy Heath and Belmont. Belmont is
the strongest (it's quite a long way away, but propagation across the
Wash is good) but that carries North region programming which we
definitely don't want!

If the worst comes to the worst we might be able to install two
aerials: the main one for Talcolneston (giving us the regional BBC we
want) and an auxiliary one to give us an alternative source of the
multiplex most likely to be affected by 4G. That's D3+4 (ch 59), so
does carry regional programming, but we rarely watch the ITV local
news!

As for the possibility of the Cellphone tower not carrying 4G, it's
listed as follows:

Vodafone site 4803
'3' site PE0350
T-Mobile site 96235
Orange site NRF0023

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

DTTV TXs and 4G
 

On Sat, 24 Nov 2012 02:53:16 -0800 (PST), Richard Russell
wrote:

On Nov 23, 8:07*pm, tony sayer wrote:
There no other TX available at all?..

Yes, but not for our 'preferred' region. We get fringe coverage from
four TXs: Tacolneston, Waltham, Sandy Heath and Belmont. Belmont is
the strongest (it's quite a long way away, but propagation across the
Wash is good) but that carries North region programming which we
definitely don't want!

If the worst comes to the worst we might be able to install two
aerials: the main one for Talcolneston (giving us the regional BBC we
want) and an auxiliary one to give us an alternative source of the
multiplex most likely to be affected by 4G. That's D3+4 (ch 59), so
does carry regional programming, but we rarely watch the ITV local
news!

As for the possibility of the Cellphone tower not carrying 4G, it's
listed as follows:

Vodafone site 4803
'3' site PE0350
T-Mobile site 96235
Orange site NRF0023

Richard.
http://www.rtrussell.co.uk/

I'm feeling smug. I have line of sight straight across the London
basin to Crystal Palace. I'd like to see LTE swamp that signal - I
have an attenuator in the feed to prevent intermod.

d