Old KEFs
 

"David B" wrote in message
...
"Woody" wrote in message
...
"Johny B Good" wrote
in message
...
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:34:59 +0100, RJH
wrote:

On 27/08/2014 11:09, Bob Latham wrote:
In article
,
Don Pearce wrote:

Or that there are much better ways to load speakers
than transmission
lines.

I would be interested to hear what these are and in
what way they are
better other than box size.


I suppose there's many ways to skin a cat. My
preference (shaped by
price and space too) over the years has come down to
sealed box or
transmission line. Wonder what Don has in mind.

From his subsequent postings, the only alternative is
horn loading.
This suits short throw drive units but a 30 foot horn,
even when
folded, is a rather large beast to shoehorn into the
typical domestic
auditorium (living/ entertainment room) of your
'average semi'.


Well not if you put the driver and throat under the floor
and just vent the mouth - remember at those frequencies
the sound has little or no directionality.


Something like this?
http://www.royaldevice.com/useless.htm




A tad overkill maybe?

Their clearly not all locked up yet!


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

Old KEFs
 

On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:19:30 +0100, "David B"
wrote:

"Woody" wrote in message
...
"Johny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:34:59 +0100, RJH wrote:

On 27/08/2014 11:09, Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:

Or that there are much better ways to load speakers than transmission
lines.

I would be interested to hear what these are and in what way they are
better other than box size.


I suppose there's many ways to skin a cat. My preference (shaped by
price and space too) over the years has come down to sealed box or
transmission line. Wonder what Don has in mind.

From his subsequent postings, the only alternative is horn loading.
This suits short throw drive units but a 30 foot horn, even when
folded, is a rather large beast to shoehorn into the typical domestic
auditorium (living/ entertainment room) of your 'average semi'.


Well not if you put the driver and throat under the floor and just vent
the mouth - remember at those frequencies the sound has little or no
directionality.


Something like this?
http://www.royaldevice.com/useless.htm

Two things I noticed, one being an old model Thorens Turntable[1],
the other being the sub-woofer being split into left and right horns.

The first I can understand but the second I have to question in a VLF
sub-woofer (10 to 80 Hz afaicr).

[1] Yes, I realise most of the belt drive Thorens decks are old. I
meant it was even older than my 'modern' TD 125 Mk 1 :-)

It looks like an immediate predecessor to the TD125 range, I suspect
chosen to do transcription duty with 78 rpm recordings (the TD125
lacks this speed range).

I didn't spot any mention of it in any of the accompanying text. I
couldn't be bothered to google countless images of classic Thorens
record decks to try and work out which model it was. I'll leave that
as an exercise for someone else who gives more of a **** about this
sort of stuff than I do. :-)
--
J B Good

Old KEFs
 

"Johny B Good" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 28 Aug 2014 12:19:30 +0100, "David B"

wrote:

"Woody" wrote in message
...
"Johny B Good"
wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Aug 2014 11:34:59 +0100, RJH
wrote:

On 27/08/2014 11:09, Bob Latham wrote:
In article
,
Don Pearce wrote:

Or that there are much better ways to load speakers
than transmission
lines.

I would be interested to hear what these are and in
what way they are
better other than box size.


I suppose there's many ways to skin a cat. My
preference (shaped by
price and space too) over the years has come down to
sealed box or
transmission line. Wonder what Don has in mind.

From his subsequent postings, the only alternative is
horn loading.
This suits short throw drive units but a 30 foot horn,
even when
folded, is a rather large beast to shoehorn into the
typical domestic
auditorium (living/ entertainment room) of your
'average semi'.


Well not if you put the driver and throat under the
floor and just vent
the mouth - remember at those frequencies the sound has
little or no
directionality.


Something like this?
http://www.royaldevice.com/useless.htm

Two things I noticed, one being an old model Thorens
Turntable[1],
the other being the sub-woofer being split into left and
right horns.

The first I can understand but the second I have to
question in a VLF
sub-woofer (10 to 80 Hz afaicr).

[1] Yes, I realise most of the belt drive Thorens decks
are old. I
meant it was even older than my 'modern' TD 125 Mk 1 :-)

It looks like an immediate predecessor to the TD125 range,
I suspect
chosen to do transcription duty with 78 rpm recordings
(the TD125
lacks this speed range).

I didn't spot any mention of it in any of the accompanying
text. I
couldn't be bothered to google countless images of classic
Thorens
record decks to try and work out which model it was. I'll
leave that
as an exercise for someone else who gives more of a ****
about this
sort of stuff than I do. :-)


TD165 or one of the many versions of the TD160 methinks.


--
Woody

harrogate three at ntlworld dot com

Old KEFs
 

In article ,
Johny B Good wrote:
Something like this?
http://www.royaldevice.com/useless.htm

Two things I noticed, one being an old model Thorens Turntable[1],
the other being the sub-woofer being split into left and right horns.

What caught my eye was the drum overhead mics just dangling on their
cables from the stands. ;-)

--
*Some days you're the dog, some days the hydrant.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Old KEFs
 

For my money the B139 was probably the best air-mover ever
made - along with its later cousin the B200. I used to have
a pair of the Dr Bailey Transmission Lines (Wireless World
1972) which could shake windows at 10 paces and with
relatively little power!

However I suspect two things may be the cause of the poor
sound quality from the Cantata's: one is that there was
little overlap between the specified responses of the two
drive units - B139 was 20-1000Hz and the T15 was 800-20000.
The original design of the Bailey TLs was for the B139 as a
bass unit up to only a few hundred cycles, the B110 as a mid
range from a few hundred up to about 5KHz, and the T15 above
that lot - the T15 being superceeded by the T27 after the
T15 was ceased. The result was a very relaxed sound that,
whilst it was not as good as a two-way unit for stereo
imaging, gave immense detail, clarity, and realism from top
to bottom. I used to have a (sample CD) recording of a piece
of Bach played on the organ of Limburg Cathedral which made
tremendous use of pedal reeds - I have never found any
speaker (save a Cambridge R50 which used the same drivers
and had a TL construction) that could reproduce those reeds
in any realistic way and I have heard said organ.

B
ear in
mind that the B200/T27 combination was also used in the
LS3/5 - many would argue the best small monitor ever
designed?

Yep I've heard a few other more recent designs of the same size but I
reckon the 3/5A's are still the)...


--
Tony Sayer

Old KEFs
 

Totally agree. But anyone who has been to a live concert -
be it orchestral, choral, instrumental, or organ - knows
that the sound is never as loud pro rata as people tend to
play it at home. A reasonable 'mid' volume with good dynamic
range beats sheer loudness in my book any day.

Well I don't go to that may concerts anymore and I haven't been for some
time now the only live stuff I hear is at Ely Cathedral for evensong
from time to time when I've been working there, super way to unwind;)

But its surprising just how quiet it all is, forever wanting to turn up
the wick a bit:!..


First prom of the season Tues. nite, Brahms, and that never seemed to be
at all loud either;!. I'm hopefully off to the St Matthew passion on the
6th, prolly standing room only now if the olde back can "stand" it, but
makes such a change just to be there and enjoy that special
atmosphere;)..



Just discovered that a mate of mine managed to get Two tickets for the
Kate Bush comeback concert the same nite and he rated it as superb and
astounding!, and the best concert event he had ever been to!.

Seems people were offering a Thousand quid for a single ticket outside
in the queue but no one wanted to sell theirs;!. Amazing a girl who went
out hardly out of her teens and came back a 56 Y/O woman.

Amazing that as well that she can command that sort of response
still;!...
--
Tony Sayer

Old KEFs
 

In article , Don Pearce
scribeth thus
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 20:16:02 +0100, "Woody"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 19:21:32 +0100, "Woody"

wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:53:43 +0100, Eiron

wrote:

An impulse purchase on ebay - a pair of KEF Cantata G4s,
very cheap.
Now in the garage so I can listen to the BBC while
tinkering.
But listening to some Thomas Tallis was a very similar
experience to
a visit to the dentist - not actually painful but not
pleasant...

http://www.kef.com/html/gb/explore/a...up_4_Cantata/i
ndex.html

Are the original B139s worth selling on ebay to the
transmission line
enthusiasts?
They have a rubberized cloth surround rather than
neoprene
and lower
power handling
but otherwise similar specs.

B139s are very sellable. There are plenty of
transmission
line freaks
out there who love them. Just as well they haven't
discovered that
more modern speakers are even better suited to the job.
Or
that there
are much better ways to load speakers than transmission
lines.

Don't know about the tweeters though - they are probably
responsible
for the unpleasantness. They may be broken. The
Celestion
HF1300 was a
common match for the B139, and had a very smooth
response.


I would totally agree with that save that I still don't
think I have heard any speaker (save as said the R50, and
I
have both Spendor BCII's and KEF Q55's amongst others)
that
can handle the clarity, detail and natural sound of the
deep
bass - but I am willing to be corrected.

The other mod often made to the Bailey TLs was to fit a
Coles 4001G super tweeter which I found did help a tad
with
the realism of some instruments.

When the time difference has had its way I'm sure Trevor
Wilson will be along soon to give us the benefits of his
experience, and doubtless also some serious abuse and bad
language from Phil Allison! (They are box in Oz.)

The B139 has very nice sounding bass, but its woeful Xmax
(6mm) means
that it can't deliver loud bass.



Totally agree. But anyone who has been to a live concert -
be it orchestral, choral, instrumental, or organ - knows
that the sound is never as loud pro rata as people tend to
play it at home. A reasonable 'mid' volume with good dynamic
range beats sheer loudness in my book any day.

I think the B200 - and its look-alike the Dalesford - were
probably better for unmistakeable brute force!

You are right as long as the bass doesn't go very low. At it's
resonance of 28Hz it is protected by the coupled port from large
excursions, and it does very well. Much lower than that, though - a 64
foot organ pipe maybe,

Not likely to be much of a problem IIRC there are only Two or three in
the world;!..

ISTR an open 32 foot is down to 16 Hz!..


and it runs up against its end stops at very
low volume.

So don't play organ music through it!

s

--
Tony Sayer

Old KEFs
 

On 28/08/2014 17:40, tony sayer wrote:

mind that the B200/T27 combination was also used in the
LS3/5 - many would argue the best small monitor ever
designed?

Yep I've heard a few other more recent designs of the same size but I
reckon the 3/5A's are still the)...

LS3/5A used B110/T27.
And they weren't great, but they were consistent.

--
Eiron.

Old KEFs
 

On 28/08/2014 17:54, tony sayer wrote:


Totally agree. But anyone who has been to a live concert -
be it orchestral, choral, instrumental, or organ - knows
that the sound is never as loud pro rata as people tend to
play it at home. A reasonable 'mid' volume with good dynamic
range beats sheer loudness in my book any day.

Well I don't go to that may concerts anymore and I haven't been for some
time now the only live stuff I hear is at Ely Cathedral for evensong
from time to time when I've been working there, super way to unwind;)

But its surprising just how quiet it all is, forever wanting to turn up
the wick a bit:!..


The last cathedral concert I heard was just a confused noise within.
Until the interval when I moved from the back to the front row,
when it improved beyond measure.

--
Eiron.

Old KEFs
 

In article ,
Eiron wrote:
LS3/5A used B110/T27.
And they weren't great, but they were consistent.

I've yet to hear something of the same size which is better. For every
sort of use.

--
*I dropped out of communism class because of lousy Marx.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.