Audio Factory info
 

Those who use the BBC Radio iPlayer may find a new page at

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/Audio...ioFactory.html

of interest.

It is the result of recent discussions with some people at the BBC and
sheds some light on the current developments. Note that things are still
evolving and there are some outstanding areas that need clarification.
I'll update the page when things change or some matters become clearer.

Cheers,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

Audio Factory info
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:

Those who use the BBC Radio iPlayer may find a new page at

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/Audio...ioFactory.html

Excellent info, shame there wasn't something similar available on a BBC
tech blog somewhere before the changes started becoming visible leading
to complaints.

Seems quite well thought out for the future, With a little "nudge"
firefox 36 will use HTML5/media streaming for sites that support it, I
think that 37 doesn't need the "nudge" for youtube but uses it by
default, I did see evidence of the iPlayer team communicating on the
HTML5 mailing lists - roll-on the day that iPlayer TV doesn't need flash ...

Audio Factory info
 

"Andy Burns" wrote in message
o.uk...
Jim Lesurf wrote:

Those who use the BBC Radio iPlayer may find a new page at

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/Audio...ioFactory.html

Excellent info, shame there wasn't something similar available on a BBC
tech blog somewhere before the changes started becoming visible leading to
complaints.

Seems quite well thought out for the future, With a little "nudge" firefox
36 will use HTML5/media streaming for sites that support it, I think that
37 doesn't need the "nudge" for youtube but uses it by default, I did see
evidence of the iPlayer team communicating on the HTML5 mailing lists -
roll-on the day that iPlayer TV doesn't need flash ...


I second that, the sooner flash goes the better.

Audio Factory info
 

In article , Andy
Burns
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:

Those who use the BBC Radio iPlayer may find a new page at

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/Audio...ioFactory.html

Excellent info, shame there wasn't something similar available on a BBC
tech blog somewhere before the changes started becoming visible leading
to complaints.

If you read between the lines you can form the impression that some parts
of the timescale for the changes was dictated to the engineers by
'contractual' arrangements that management had set well in advance. That
may help people to understand why the changeover is more ragged that it
might be in an ideal world. But of course, even without that, any large
change to a system that's in heavy continual use by so many different types
of client is likely to bump into potholes. The end-state looks pretty good
though... once we get there. :-)


Seems quite well thought out for the future, With a little "nudge"
firefox 36 will use HTML5/media streaming for sites that support it, I
think that 37 doesn't need the "nudge" for youtube but uses it by
default,

I'm currently using FF 33 on the Mint distros I have installed. So the main
question for me will in due time be if I can upgrade FF to an
HTML5/MPEG-DASH capable version that's suitable *without* also having to
upgrade the distros.

I also recall a comment somewhere on the web that FF would play this, but
forced output to go to alsa card 0 regardless of anything in .asoundrc,
etc. I hope that has been fixed as I always use external USB DACs.


I did see evidence of the iPlayer team communicating on the
HTML5 mailing lists - roll-on the day that iPlayer TV doesn't need flash
...

TBH I suspect the BBC people agree. :-)

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Audio Factory info
 

Yes like the bloody Webbie accessible programs no longer work and the one
which does has to download the whole file then convert it with a loss of
quality.
I simply do not see what was wrong with the old system, licencing or
whatever surely must cost less than the mess they have thus far created
depriving lots of people of their feeds who have no way to get their radio
stuff back without buying new kit or learning new software. its about time
the BBC realised they have a responsibility to at least give suitable
warnings befor trashing whole ranges of device and software overnight
without even a second thought.
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
Those who use the BBC Radio iPlayer may find a new page at

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/Audio...ioFactory.html

of interest.

It is the result of recent discussions with some people at the BBC and
sheds some light on the current developments. Note that things are still
evolving and there are some outstanding areas that need clarification.
I'll update the page when things change or some matters become clearer.

Cheers,

Jim

--
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html

Audio Factory info
 

So is there yet another change to the tv I player then?
already we have lost the lists we used for sorting out ad stuff into a
managable offlinelist, and now simple media centres running old xp will
probably never be able toword when flash is gone. Yet more messing about for
those who don't need it the most, so to speech.
I'm waiting for a common, accessible interface to be on all catch up and
streaming services, as this would be worth aiming for world wide
Brian

--
From the Sofa of Brian Gaff Reply address is active
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Andy
Burns
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:

Those who use the BBC Radio iPlayer may find a new page at

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/Audio...ioFactory.html

Excellent info, shame there wasn't something similar available on a BBC
tech blog somewhere before the changes started becoming visible leading
to complaints.

If you read between the lines you can form the impression that some parts
of the timescale for the changes was dictated to the engineers by
'contractual' arrangements that management had set well in advance. That
may help people to understand why the changeover is more ragged that it
might be in an ideal world. But of course, even without that, any large
change to a system that's in heavy continual use by so many different
types
of client is likely to bump into potholes. The end-state looks pretty good
though... once we get there. :-)


Seems quite well thought out for the future, With a little "nudge"
firefox 36 will use HTML5/media streaming for sites that support it, I
think that 37 doesn't need the "nudge" for youtube but uses it by
default,

I'm currently using FF 33 on the Mint distros I have installed. So the
main
question for me will in due time be if I can upgrade FF to an
HTML5/MPEG-DASH capable version that's suitable *without* also having to
upgrade the distros.

I also recall a comment somewhere on the web that FF would play this, but
forced output to go to alsa card 0 regardless of anything in .asoundrc,
etc. I hope that has been fixed as I always use external USB DACs.


I did see evidence of the iPlayer team communicating on the
HTML5 mailing lists - roll-on the day that iPlayer TV doesn't need flash
...

TBH I suspect the BBC people agree. :-)

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Audio Factory info
 

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
I simply do not see what was wrong with the old system, licencing or
whatever surely must cost less than the mess they have thus far created
depriving lots of people of their feeds who have no way to get their
radio stuff back without buying new kit or learning new software. its
about time the BBC realised they have a responsibility to at least
give suitable warnings befor trashing whole ranges of device and
software overnight without even a second thought.

Its unfortunate that you can't see the diagram I did for Fig1, let alone
the far more complicated ones I worked from to show the sheer engineering
complexity of the system they'd built. In engineering terms, it had grown
into a real mess, cobbled together on the basis of a lot of ongoing effort
and tweaking. An expensive nightmare to maintain and develop or extend.

However the BBC did start speaking to the aggrigators, closed-box makers,
etc, in Jan 2014. And they did publicise various changes months beforehand.
So any responsibility has to be shared between the BBC and the various
companies involved. Unless we were at the discussions they had, or have
seen the documents exchanged, it's hard to say more.

The new system is far less of a 'mess' than the old one. And should lead to
*all* the BBC radio stations being available as 320kbps aac. And via HTML5
which is an open standard. Combine that with the new system being much less
of an operational engineering mess than the old one, and the chances are
things will be far better for them and us in the long term than if they'd
been forced to stick with what they had.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Audio Factory info
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:

Those who use the BBC Radio iPlayer may find a new page at

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/Audio...ioFactory.html

of interest.

It is the result of recent discussions with some people at the BBC and
sheds some light on the current developments. Note that things are still
evolving and there are some outstanding areas that need clarification.
I'll update the page when things change or some matters become clearer.

An impressive piece of work, much of which is rather outside my
understanding.

Does any of this explain why, whilst my Roku box will happily
allow me to view BBC programmes through iPlayer, radio is no
longer available in this way, but iPlayer Radio on my PC
continues to function.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.

Audio Factory info
 

In article , Chris J Dixon
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:

Those who use the BBC Radio iPlayer may find a new page at

http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/Audio...ioFactory.html

of interest.

It is the result of recent discussions with some people at the BBC and
sheds some light on the current developments. Note that things are
still evolving and there are some outstanding areas that need
clarification. I'll update the page when things change or some matters
become clearer.

An impressive piece of work, much of which is rather outside my
understanding.

Does any of this explain why, whilst my Roku box will happily allow me
to view BBC programmes through iPlayer,

I assume you mean 'TV' above although you don't make that clear.

radio is no longer available in this way, but iPlayer Radio on my PC
continues to function.

Afraid I don't know anything about how the Roku works. Nor have I (as yet)
looked much at the TV side as my main interest is audio/radio. So I can't
comment specifically on the Roku or TV.

You'd need to specify what method you're using on your 'PC'. But as
explained on the page, the Flash plugin for a browser, for example, should
still work. But the Roku may simply use a different method, which has
changed beyond its current comprehension. In particular, it may use a
method that relies on a 'third party' who 'translates and retransmits' the
BBC material for a given make of consumer 'net radio/TV' as you listen or
watch.

Beyond that, changes to BBC radio and TV are being made at slightly
different times and in slightly different ways. As these are made it
becomes a question of if/how your chosen 'receiver' operates and what it
can accept.

Boxes sold as 'consumer devices' may be 'closed'. i.e. The owner has no
simply way to alter how they work for themselves. So you then have to rely
on the makers to 'upgrade' its internal firmware, and/or some 'third party'
to take in in the new info from the BBC and rearrange and re-send it to the
box. If the maker or third party fails to keep up with the changes, you may
lose access. I have no idea what Roku may do about this, I'm afraid.

The problem for consumers who treat these boxes as pressbutton systems is
that the they may not be able to tell who is responsible for their box
ceasing to work whilst other systems continue to function. Its a drawback
of regarding such closed consumer items as a 'smart' (i.e. 'magic') radio
or TV.

A complication for the BBC is that a fair amount of the requests for
material come from boxes that fail to identify the maker, model, etc. So
they haven't been able to tell in all cases just *what* equipment is making
the request. That made it harder for them to find the makers, etc, in
question to tell them about the approaching changes.

Personally, my approach is to avoid such consumer boxes. Just as night
follows day, at some point a change will occur that leaves them orphaned.
Whereas with a computer you are more likely to be able to get new software
that lets you go on accessing. The downside, of course, is that a general
purpose computer can be more complicated to use. Or physically less
convenient.

I'm afraid this is just an example of what has become a wider problem of
'home consumer items' that actually rely on some support from a company
without the buyer really being aware of the implications. When you buy such
a box in a shop - be it a 'net radio' or a 'smart TV' - your contract is
with the *shop* and it ends with the warranty, etc, as with other goods.
You have no contract with the maker or any 'third party' who initially was
supporting it working day-by-day. But day-to-day you may be relying on them
for the box to go on working...

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Audio Factory info
 

Jim Lesurf wrote:

In article , Chris J Dixon
wrote:
Jim Lesurf wrote:

Does any of this explain why, whilst my Roku box will happily allow me
to view BBC programmes through iPlayer,

I assume you mean 'TV' above although you don't make that clear.

Sorry, yes it is one of these:
https://www.roku.com/products/roku-3

and certified for use
http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.u...formation/roku

However
http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/tv/connected/connected_TVs_new_iPlayer

"As part of improving how we deliver radio online, the method for
streaming radio programmes is changing and as such radio
programmes are no longer available on BBC iPlayer for TV."

but iPlayer Radio on my PC
continues to function.

Afraid I don't know anything about how the Roku works. Nor have I (as yet)
looked much at the TV side as my main interest is audio/radio. So I can't
comment specifically on the Roku or TV.

You'd need to specify what method you're using on your 'PC'.

Firefox, http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio

it simply works.

Personally, my approach is to avoid such consumer boxes. Just as night
follows day, at some point a change will occur that leaves them orphaned.
Whereas with a computer you are more likely to be able to get new software
that lets you go on accessing. The downside, of course, is that a general
purpose computer can be more complicated to use. Or physically less
convenient.

It is really the latter that made my try the Roku, which for TV
is working very well, so far, and is far cheaper than buying a
new "smart" TV, and I thought was worth the risk. The lack of
radio isn't really a problem, since access via the PC is easy
enough, and there is not such a need to have the immediate
ability to rewind or fast forward from the viewing position.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK


Plant amazing Acers.