A Shuttle, perchance ? I built myself one - nice little box, although I
think mine is 1PCI, 1AGP. The AGP slot will probably get a video card at
some point. I intend to get a USB digitv decoder rather than use an
internal one.

I believe so - it comes with the main board fitted I think. Is the
built-in sound any good? I'm going for an AMD-based box simply for
cost reasons with a modest chip. I don't think monster processing
power is going to help me much.

I like the look of the Nebula digitv card mentioned elsewhere, so I
think I'll make sure that's what gets fitted.

Whilst I'd love to spend a day building one myself I am in the happy
position of running a computer company, so I'm letting the young pups
do it for me. I was surprised how out of date I am on PC building.
--
Tim Hobbs

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"PJO" wrote in message
...
I know this is rather off topic but I don't know of a TV group (is
there one?).

Freeview... Having just bought a standard set top box I was amazed to
discover that one is unable to watch one channel while recording
another. Does anyone know of an alternative STB which can do both jobs
with the simple press of a button?


If you want to watch one digital channel while recording another, the
best, if not *only* way (presuming no digital telly) is to daisychain 2
STBs together. There is one by (dare I say it?) Bush being advertised
for only £40 atm. (Not an undue amount, IMO.)

Well, I've just boldly gone and bought a DTTV receiver box (Nokia 221T).
Chose this one as it had good reviews and has a S/PDIF output for sound as
well as a pair of scarts.

The 'snag' wish daisy chaining I have found is as follows:

Both the DTTV and my VHS/DVD combo unit have 'aux' scarts as well as 'TV'
scarts, so can actually be daisy-chained in either order. However although
each outputs RGB, the each (it would seem) only accept composite or S
video. Thus the unit at the 'far' end of a scart daisy chain suffers a
loss
in image quality. Since my TV has two scarts - but only one RGB - this is
a
pest.

At present I have opted to have the DTTV box at the 'far' end of a daisy
chain, so the DVD can still give good pictures, but the DTTV picture
suffers as a result.

When the DTTV box is connected directly to the scart RGB input of the TV
it
gives a very good picture despite our only having a poor signal level
which
causes breakup when it is raining heavily. (A better antenna is on the
list
of future improvements ;- )

I am currently investigating scart switches of the types sold by
lecktropacks, etc, to see if I can effectively give my TV two RGB inputs
by
using a suitable switch. I believe you can get 'auto' ones that switch in
response to the inputs.

The quality for recording does not matter so much, so I'll either use UHF
or try the aux scarts. No point in trying to give the VHS a superb image
as
the recording will be relatively poor anyway! :-)

Seems weird that units output RGB but do not accept it inwards to pass
through...

OT: Another pest with the Nokia turns out to be that the 'TV station' and
'Radio station' lists are distinct, so switching between radio and TV is
clumsy if your TV is switched off and you are just hearing the output via
S/PDIF. Is this standard for DTTV boxes?

The user guides for both the DTTV box and the VHS/DVD recommend daisy
chaining scarts with the VHS/DVD 'upstream' of the DTTV so far as signals
sent to the TV are concerned. This works, and means the DTTV box can auto
switch and pass through the VHS/DVD output, which is convenient. However
the degrading of DVD images is obvious when I do this.

FWIW I tried connecting the DTTV output to the secondary scart on the TV
(which does not have RGB inputs) but this caused problems as they seem
incompatable as to the form of composite/S video. Colour was difficult to
obtain, and seemed to rely upon 'leakage' from one cable to another, but I
have not yet sussed this out beyond finding it did not work! ;-)


Wah! Some pretty scary stuff in there!

As my little 'flexible friend' is now worse off to the tune of one Sagem
ITD602 STB, I hope the following list of functionality.....

Quick guided first installation
Ultra Fast auto tune
AUX scart with RGB input passthrough
Electronic Program Guide ( EPG)
Sleep timer
7 favourite lists with organizer
video freeze mode
Parental lock to control access for channels and
set up menus with a pin code
Powerful diagnostic screens

.....and the following specifications......

High speed microprocessor 350 MIPS
Fully DVB-T compliant
2k / 8k and 7MHz / 8 MHz supported
Analog VHF-UHF loopthrough
MHEG5 engine UK profile 1.05
English OSD
DVB subtitles
Teletext
Software update over the air (OTA)

....... used in conjunction with the Sony digital telly will allow me to
report that, later this evening, I have had *none* of these same problems!
(I am not confident, at this point in time.....)

:-)

One thing I *do* know is (for those who still think quality of interconnects
is unimportant) that an 'iffy' Scart lead is its own pain and will lead one
into the very depths of misery and despair......

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"PJO" wrote in message
...
I know this is rather off topic but I don't know of a TV group (is
there one?).

Freeview... Having just bought a standard set top box I was amazed to
discover that one is unable to watch one channel while recording
another. Does anyone know of an alternative STB which can do both jobs
with the simple press of a button?


If you want to watch one digital channel while recording another, the
best, if not *only* way (presuming no digital telly) is to daisychain 2
STBs together. There is one by (dare I say it?) Bush being advertised
for only £40 atm. (Not an undue amount, IMO.)

Well, I've just boldly gone and bought a DTTV receiver box (Nokia 221T).
Chose this one as it had good reviews and has a S/PDIF output for sound as
well as a pair of scarts.

The 'snag' wish daisy chaining I have found is as follows:

Both the DTTV and my VHS/DVD combo unit have 'aux' scarts as well as 'TV'
scarts, so can actually be daisy-chained in either order. However although
each outputs RGB, the each (it would seem) only accept composite or S
video. Thus the unit at the 'far' end of a scart daisy chain suffers a
loss
in image quality. Since my TV has two scarts - but only one RGB - this is
a
pest.

At present I have opted to have the DTTV box at the 'far' end of a daisy
chain, so the DVD can still give good pictures, but the DTTV picture
suffers as a result.

When the DTTV box is connected directly to the scart RGB input of the TV
it
gives a very good picture despite our only having a poor signal level
which
causes breakup when it is raining heavily. (A better antenna is on the
list
of future improvements ;- )

I am currently investigating scart switches of the types sold by
lecktropacks, etc, to see if I can effectively give my TV two RGB inputs
by
using a suitable switch. I believe you can get 'auto' ones that switch in
response to the inputs.

The quality for recording does not matter so much, so I'll either use UHF
or try the aux scarts. No point in trying to give the VHS a superb image
as
the recording will be relatively poor anyway! :-)

Seems weird that units output RGB but do not accept it inwards to pass
through...

OT: Another pest with the Nokia turns out to be that the 'TV station' and
'Radio station' lists are distinct, so switching between radio and TV is
clumsy if your TV is switched off and you are just hearing the output via
S/PDIF. Is this standard for DTTV boxes?

The user guides for both the DTTV box and the VHS/DVD recommend daisy
chaining scarts with the VHS/DVD 'upstream' of the DTTV so far as signals
sent to the TV are concerned. This works, and means the DTTV box can auto
switch and pass through the VHS/DVD output, which is convenient. However
the degrading of DVD images is obvious when I do this.

FWIW I tried connecting the DTTV output to the secondary scart on the TV
(which does not have RGB inputs) but this caused problems as they seem
incompatable as to the form of composite/S video. Colour was difficult to
obtain, and seemed to rely upon 'leakage' from one cable to another, but I
have not yet sussed this out beyond finding it did not work! ;-)


Wah! Some pretty scary stuff in there!

As my little 'flexible friend' is now worse off to the tune of one Sagem
ITD602 STB, I hope the following list of functionality.....

Quick guided first installation
Ultra Fast auto tune
AUX scart with RGB input passthrough
Electronic Program Guide ( EPG)
Sleep timer
7 favourite lists with organizer
video freeze mode
Parental lock to control access for channels and
set up menus with a pin code
Powerful diagnostic screens

.....and the following specifications......

High speed microprocessor 350 MIPS
Fully DVB-T compliant
2k / 8k and 7MHz / 8 MHz supported
Analog VHF-UHF loopthrough
MHEG5 engine UK profile 1.05
English OSD
DVB subtitles
Teletext
Software update over the air (OTA)

....... used in conjunction with the Sony digital telly will allow me to
report that, later this evening, I have had *none* of these same problems!
(I am not confident, at this point in time.....)

:-)

One thing I *do* know is (for those who still think quality of interconnects
is unimportant) that an 'iffy' Scart lead is its own pain and will lead one
into the very depths of misery and despair......

Jim,

In message , Jim Lesurf
writes

I am currently investigating scart switches of the types sold by
lecktropacks, etc, to see if I can effectively give my TV two RGB inputs by
using a suitable switch. I believe you can get 'auto' ones that switch in
response to the inputs.

You might want to do some Googling in uk.tech.tv.sky. There have been a
couple of threads there recently that involved choices among SCART
switching boxes. I get the impression that they are not all created
equal!

You are certainly not alone in having this problem. It seems odd to me
that manufacturers don't equip all SCART sockets with RGB, especially
now that there are so many RGB capable devices on the market. I guess it
saves them a few pennies.

--
Regards,
Glenn Booth

Jim,

In message , Jim Lesurf
writes

I am currently investigating scart switches of the types sold by
lecktropacks, etc, to see if I can effectively give my TV two RGB inputs by
using a suitable switch. I believe you can get 'auto' ones that switch in
response to the inputs.

You might want to do some Googling in uk.tech.tv.sky. There have been a
couple of threads there recently that involved choices among SCART
switching boxes. I get the impression that they are not all created
equal!

You are certainly not alone in having this problem. It seems odd to me
that manufacturers don't equip all SCART sockets with RGB, especially
now that there are so many RGB capable devices on the market. I guess it
saves them a few pennies.

--
Regards,
Glenn Booth

"Tim Hobbs" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:20:24 +0000, John Laird
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:19:29 -0000, "PJO" wrote:

Why would you be amazed that a single box picks up a single channel?

Yes, I do find that amazing. Basically the STB needs two tuners.

That's all it does, though - decode a single channel from one of the
digital
multiplexes. To put in a second tuner is to duplicate its primary
function
and would lead to a significant extra cost. Your options a
a) Watch analogue while recording digital.
b) Get a second STB.
c) Get a TV with a built-in digital decoder.

I'm considering the purchase of a USB digital decoder from a company
whose
name I forget (it's not Hauppauge), and going fully digital for
recording,
onto a PC disk. The box under consideration can also output an entire
multiplex for recording, too (somewhere between 5 and 8 channels). An
obvious next step after that is a DVD recorder.

The boys at work are building me such a box right now. With DVD
writer, freeview TV tuner, 160Gb disk and more ports you could shake a
stick at it will cost £400 odd plus VAT. It's all built into a neat
cubic box and will be on my LAN so I can use it as a fileserver too.
Audio quality won't be audiophile, but I can live with that for the
convenience it will give me in general use.


160 gig? - Won't take long to fill that up, me old china. (The 'power users'
in Yankland and Nippon are into *terabytes*, I gather.....!) I'd up that
spec a bit sharpish, if I were yew! (What's the standard rate of exchange
atm - 5 gig per 2 hours 'audiovisual' at DVD quality??)



The crappy, broken Sony HD recorder is going back to the shop,
liberating £340, and I won't have to buy the wife a new VCR to replace
the dying one she uses for taping Corrie.


Go the extra half mile with the Panasonc DVDRs and you can get one that has
got an automatic 'Get all my Corrie progs' button......

:-)

"Tim Hobbs" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:20:24 +0000, John Laird
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:19:29 -0000, "PJO" wrote:

Why would you be amazed that a single box picks up a single channel?

Yes, I do find that amazing. Basically the STB needs two tuners.

That's all it does, though - decode a single channel from one of the
digital
multiplexes. To put in a second tuner is to duplicate its primary
function
and would lead to a significant extra cost. Your options a
a) Watch analogue while recording digital.
b) Get a second STB.
c) Get a TV with a built-in digital decoder.

I'm considering the purchase of a USB digital decoder from a company
whose
name I forget (it's not Hauppauge), and going fully digital for
recording,
onto a PC disk. The box under consideration can also output an entire
multiplex for recording, too (somewhere between 5 and 8 channels). An
obvious next step after that is a DVD recorder.

The boys at work are building me such a box right now. With DVD
writer, freeview TV tuner, 160Gb disk and more ports you could shake a
stick at it will cost £400 odd plus VAT. It's all built into a neat
cubic box and will be on my LAN so I can use it as a fileserver too.
Audio quality won't be audiophile, but I can live with that for the
convenience it will give me in general use.


160 gig? - Won't take long to fill that up, me old china. (The 'power users'
in Yankland and Nippon are into *terabytes*, I gather.....!) I'd up that
spec a bit sharpish, if I were yew! (What's the standard rate of exchange
atm - 5 gig per 2 hours 'audiovisual' at DVD quality??)



The crappy, broken Sony HD recorder is going back to the shop,
liberating £340, and I won't have to buy the wife a new VCR to replace
the dying one she uses for taping Corrie.


Go the extra half mile with the Panasonc DVDRs and you can get one that has
got an automatic 'Get all my Corrie progs' button......

:-)

Hi,

In message , Keith G
writes

One thing I *do* know is (for those who still think quality of interconnects
is unimportant) that an 'iffy' Scart lead is its own pain and will lead one
into the very depths of misery and despair......

Ain't that the truth :-)

Poor scart cables cause all sorts of problems. Many of them are not even
wired for RGB. On the other hand, though, I've found you don't need to
spend a fortune for good ones. CPC (http://custom1.farnell.com/cpc) sell
decent ones for around a fiver, with individually shielded coax cores in
the important places. Unfortunately, I've been hearing nasty stories
about their (in)abilities as a vendor offering good customer
satisfaction lately - too many incorrect/late orders. When it comes to
cables, audio and video are very different animals.

--
Regards,
Glenn Booth

Hi,

In message , Keith G
writes

One thing I *do* know is (for those who still think quality of interconnects
is unimportant) that an 'iffy' Scart lead is its own pain and will lead one
into the very depths of misery and despair......

Ain't that the truth :-)

Poor scart cables cause all sorts of problems. Many of them are not even
wired for RGB. On the other hand, though, I've found you don't need to
spend a fortune for good ones. CPC (http://custom1.farnell.com/cpc) sell
decent ones for around a fiver, with individually shielded coax cores in
the important places. Unfortunately, I've been hearing nasty stories
about their (in)abilities as a vendor offering good customer
satisfaction lately - too many incorrect/late orders. When it comes to
cables, audio and video are very different animals.

--
Regards,
Glenn Booth

Hi,

In message , Tim Hobbs
writes


A Shuttle, perchance ? I built myself one - nice little box, although I
think mine is 1PCI, 1AGP. The AGP slot will probably get a video card at
some point. I intend to get a USB digitv decoder rather than use an
internal one.

I believe so - it comes with the main board fitted I think. Is the
built-in sound any good? I'm going for an AMD-based box simply for
cost reasons with a modest chip. I don't think monster processing
power is going to help me much.

I built two Shuttles recently for work, and I'm well impressed. The
audio won't be the same as yours, as ours are Intel based (P51G, I
believe, with the i865G chipset). I put a 3.2GHz P4 and a Gig of RAM
into one, and we use it as a multimedia demo machine. The onboard audio
is 5.1 capable, and actually performs much better than I expected it to.
I used it to demonstrate Adobe Audition running over three TFT displays
at a show. We used decent monitors, and the sound was more than
acceptable, given the conditions in the exhibition hall.

I was surprised how out of date I am on PC building.

That can happen if you don't do it for ten minutes or so ;-)


--
Regards,
Glenn Booth