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Wow and Forum
I've recently given in and have tried joining a 'web forum' on audio (pink
fish). This seems OK, and the people are friendly, but I still find usenet easier to use. But alas, most people seem to have migrated away from usenet... One thing I've been doing since is that a thread prompted me to start writing a 'wow and flutter' measurement program. Rough as yet, but this seems to work OK to the AES specs for such measurements. It also can give some natty graphics. e.g. http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/polar.png Which shows the variations plotted to rotate once per rotation of the turntable. The program also shows the specta of variations, variations with time, and a histogram of the speed variations along with a 'two sigma' measurement of the amount, weighted as per the AES recommendation. Hope to finish this off and release versions with source code in my usual way. Then plan to experiment to see if I can produce a 'fozgometer' type analysis, although I'm not yet convinced the idea that this helps perfect cartridge alignment makes sense. :-) BTW last week someone bought an Armstrong 730/732 combination on fleabay for 1,136 quid! I'm hoping they will contact me. But I can't give them their money back. 8-] Cheers, Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Wow and Forum
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote: I just wish forum software was alll the same interface wise. That would go a great way to making them easy to use. I simply do not understand the point of wbeb forums for subjects where the primary use is textual. Most forums are moderated in some way. Not to censure what is said, but to stop the OT stuff etc that is killing newsgroups. And the ability to add pics etc is pretty useful for most. -- *And don't start a sentence with a conjunction * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Wow and Forum
Well maybe, but posting to them is slow and awkward, and ties up some poor
person doing the moderation. It is only of course on one server so if you cannot get to that you cannot read it. There should be no issue with spam on usenet as simple filters can just zap it pretty fast. also of course many people put their graphics on dropbox or similar and post a public link. Birian -- ----- - This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from... The Sofa of Brian Gaff... Blind user, so no pictures please! "Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ... In article , Brian Gaff wrote: I just wish forum software was alll the same interface wise. That would go a great way to making them easy to use. I simply do not understand the point of wbeb forums for subjects where the primary use is textual. Most forums are moderated in some way. Not to censure what is said, but to stop the OT stuff etc that is killing newsgroups. And the ability to add pics etc is pretty useful for most. -- *And don't start a sentence with a conjunction * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Wow and Forum
In article ,
Brian Gaff wrote: Well maybe, but posting to them is slow and awkward, and ties up some poor person doing the moderation. Not really. Most just approve new members and then let them get on with it. Only moderate if someone gets naughty. You don't check every post. It is only of course on one server so if you cannot get to that you cannot read it. No different in principle from a news server. There should be no issue with spam on usenet as simple filters can just zap it pretty fast. also of course many people put their graphics on dropbox or similar and post a public link. That's actually how most forums work. It's your browser which inserts the picture from the link - the pic isn't uploaded to the forum. But it just looks like it is. Thing is regardless of what we dinosaurs think, most have moved on to forums - and even specialised groups on the likes of Facebook. -- *Speak softly and carry a cellular phone * Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Wow and Forum
Jim Lesurf writes:
One thing I've been doing since is that a thread prompted me to start writing a 'wow and flutter' measurement program. Rough as yet, but this seems to work OK to the AES specs for such measurements. Cool! I've recently replaced the drive belts in my Aiwa AD-S950 tape deck, and it would be nice to be able to measure what its performance is like now... -- Adam Sampson http://offog.org/ |
Wow and Forum
In article , Adam Sampson
wrote: Jim Lesurf writes: One thing I've been doing since is that a thread prompted me to start writing a 'wow and flutter' measurement program. Rough as yet, but this seems to work OK to the AES specs for such measurements. Cool! I've recently replaced the drive belts in my Aiwa AD-S950 tape deck, and it would be nice to be able to measure what its performance is like now... If you look at http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/software/index.html you can find the RISC OS app version I put up yesterday. That does come with the source code in 'C' which anyone is free to port to other OSs. In addition, if you look at the 'wow and flutter' thread on the 'pink fish' web forum you can find some linux and windows versions other people have done. I will also do a ROX/Linux version sometime soon, again with source code provided. I don't use Windows/Mac so have to leave those versions to others. Note that as it stands, my program focusses on wow and flutter (speed variations) in the range from 0.1 to 50 Hz. This is fine for turntable assessment. 'Scrape' flutter on tapes might be at higher frequencies, so I'm not sure how accurate the results from my program would be if the main flutter variations are 50 Hz. But the stuff 50 Hz would tend to be 'folded back' and affect the results rather than vanish entirely. I can't say for sure as I've not considered tape flutter. For 50Hz flutter one of my FFT programs might give clearer results. BTW Someone has asked me about availability of test LPs in the UK. Predictably, I have an assortment of test LPs as a paid-up audio geek. And I tend to use a batch of the "Analogue Productions" test disc from the USA at present. Anyone know of an alternative convenient for UK buyers? Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Wow and Forum
Just to let people know that I have put up a Linux program for wow and
flutter measurement an analysis, linked from http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/software/index.html What I remain unsure about, though, is what suitable test discs are available, new. I only know of the Analogue Productions example, which should be OK. Anyone know of other current test discs that have stready tones in the 1k - 10 k region? Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Wow and Forum
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote: Just to let people know that I have put up a Linux program for wow and flutter measurement an analysis, linked from http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/software/index.html What I remain unsure about, though, is what suitable test discs are available, new. I only know of the Analogue Productions example, which should be OK. Anyone know of other current test discs that have stready tones in the 1k - 10 k region? Yes. Problem must be knowing how much of the wow and flutter comes from the record itself. With a decent turntable, it was often the pressing which was the problem, not the turntable. Perhaps things have improved today. -- *Age is a very high price to pay for maturity. Dave Plowman London SW To e-mail, change noise into sound. |
Wow and Forum
In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote: In article , Jim Lesurf wrote: Just to let people know that I have put up a Linux program for wow and flutter measurement an analysis, linked from http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/software/index.html What I remain unsure about, though, is what suitable test discs are available, new. I only know of the Analogue Productions example, which should be OK. Anyone know of other current test discs that have stready tones in the 1k - 10 k region? Yes. Problem must be knowing how much of the wow and flutter comes from the record itself. Sadly, yes. I can check for an off-center LP if there are tracks on the side at various radii. But unforunately, there seem to be only a few 'new' LPs about. The Hi Fi News one has tracks at 300 Hz which is a wee bit on the low side for this. The analogue productions one has useful tracks at various radii. Only one is actually the standard 3150 Hz. But 1 kHz works fine. I'd hoped that other examples would be available. But no sign of them so far. :-/ I'm OK because I've collected a range of test discs over mumble years. But a test program isn't much use to someone else if they can't get a suitable disc! Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Wow and Forum
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message ... BTW last week someone bought an Armstrong 730/732 combination on fleabay for 1,136 quid! I'm hoping they will contact me. But I can't give them their money back. 8-] A friend of mine bought an Armstrong valve amp for UKP 1 (plus post and packing) . It has a bright red painted chassis which the previous owner assures him is orginal. Inside, is the most awful point-to point wiring rat's nest (also original) Back in the "golden days" The Leak TL12 (a mono amp designed in 1947) was highly regarded. The layout/build quality is impressive: https://www.google.com/search?q=leak...Sz8uuQygsIM%3A The amp produced 12W into 8 Ohms, with THD 0.1% A pair of these made (and still do make) the nucleus of a very pleasing audio system. This may explain why Harold Leak rode to the factory in a Rolls and Ted Rule used a bicycle:-) Iain |
Wow and Forum
On 03/05/2016 18:24, Iain Churches wrote:
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message ... BTW last week someone bought an Armstrong 730/732 combination on fleabay for 1,136 quid! I'm hoping they will contact me. But I can't give them their money back. 8-] A friend of mine bought an Armstrong valve amp for UKP 1 (plus post and packing) . It has a bright red painted chassis which the previous owner assures him is orginal. Inside, is the most awful point-to point wiring rat's nest (also original) Back in the "golden days" The Leak TL12 (a mono amp designed in 1947) was highly regarded. The layout/build quality is impressive: https://www.google.com/search?q=leak...Sz8uuQygsIM%3A The amp produced 12W into 8 Ohms, with THD 0.1% A pair of these made (and still do make) the nucleus of a very pleasing audio system. This may explain why Harold Leak rode to the factory in a Rolls and Ted Rule used a bicycle:-) Didn't anyone tell you? We don't do bitchiness here any more. -- Eiron. |
Wow and Forum
In article , Eiron
wrote: On 03/05/2016 18:24, Iain Churches wrote: "Jim Lesurf" wrote in message ... BTW last week someone bought an Armstrong 730/732 combination on fleabay for 1,136 quid! I'm hoping they will contact me. But I can't give them their money back. 8-] A friend of mine bought an Armstrong valve amp for UKP 1 (plus post and packing) . It has a bright red painted chassis which the previous owner assures him is orginal. Inside, is the most awful point-to point wiring rat's nest (also original) Back in the "golden days" The Leak TL12 (a mono amp designed in 1947) was highly regarded. The layout/build quality is impressive: https://www.google.com/search?q=leak...Sz8uuQygsIM%3A The amp produced 12W into 8 Ohms, with THD 0.1% A pair of these made (and still do make) the nucleus of a very pleasing audio system. This may explain why Harold Leak rode to the factory in a Rolls and Ted Rule used a bicycle:-) Didn't anyone tell you? We don't do bitchiness here any more. It does seem a rather odd outburst coming out of nowhere onto this thread. But it is an interesting example of someone judging something purely on appearances. :-) TBH I'm not sure Ted rode a bicycle. I'll ask him. Iain might find it useful to be aware that he is still alive in case he wants to futher patronise him or criticise his work. But he'll probably laugh at what Iain wrote. I doubt he designed hifi to get himself a Rolls Royce, and it seems odd to compare a design engineer with the owner of a company. As for the Rolls, well Leak was always very good at publicity and self-promotion. But some may recall the story of how his (sic) first transistor amp design was actually 'developled'. The Leak amplifiers were good, but I don't think I'd have wanted to work for or with him. Whereas I did enjoy working with Ted. BTW Iain, if your friend wants to sell the amp, I'm sure he can get a higher price for it somewhere and make a profit. He may not be able to buy his own Rolls from it, though. Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Wow and Forum
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message ... In article , Eiron wrote: On 03/05/2016 18:24, Iain Churches wrote: "Jim Lesurf" wrote in message ... BTW last week someone bought an Armstrong 730/732 combination on fleabay for 1,136 quid! I'm hoping they will contact me. But I can't give them their money back. 8-] A friend of mine bought an Armstrong valve amp for UKP 1 (plus post and packing) . It has a bright red painted chassis which the previous owner assures him is orginal. Inside, is the most awful point-to point wiring rat's nest (also original) Back in the "golden days" The Leak TL12 (a mono amp designed in 1947) was highly regarded. The layout/build quality is impressive: https://www.google.com/search?q=leak...Sz8uuQygsIM%3A The amp produced 12W into 8 Ohms, with THD 0.1% A pair of these made (and still do make) the nucleus of a very pleasing audio system. This may explain why Harold Leak rode to the factory in a Rolls and Ted Rule used a bicycle:-) Didn't anyone tell you? We don't do bitchiness here any more. It does seem a rather odd outburst coming out of nowhere onto this thread. But it is an interesting example of someone judging something purely on appearances. :-) TBH I'm not sure Ted rode a bicycle. I'll ask him. Iain might find it useful to be aware that he is still alive in case he wants to futher patronise him or criticise his work. But he'll probably laugh at what Iain wrote. I doubt he designed hifi to get himself a Rolls Royce, and it seems odd to compare a design engineer with the owner of a company. As for the Rolls, well Leak was always very good at publicity and self-promotion. But some may recall the story of how his (sic) first transistor amp design was actually 'developled'. The Leak amplifiers were good, but I don't think I'd have wanted to work for or with him. Whereas I did enjoy working with Ted. BTW Iain, if your friend wants to sell the amp, I'm sure he can get a higher price for it somewhere and make a profit. He may not be able to buy his own Rolls from it, though. I bought a Leak Stereo 70 - which someone had painted white! I fitted new smoothing caps and rewired the ceramic pickup sockets as an output from the volume control so that I could feed the dual-mono power MOSFET power amp that I had built. I think of all the various pre-amps I used with that power amp the Leak was probably the best. It certainly proved itself with depth and clarity of bass when driving the home-built (WW/Bailey) TL speakers that I was using at the time! -- Woody harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com |
Wow and Forum
In article , Woody
wrote: I bought a Leak Stereo 70 - which someone had painted white! I fitted new smoothing caps and rewired the ceramic pickup sockets as an output from the volume control so that I could feed the dual-mono power MOSFET power amp that I had built. I think of all the various pre-amps I used with that power amp the Leak was probably the best. It certainly proved itself with depth and clarity of bass when driving the home-built (WW/Bailey) TL speakers that I was using at the time! Actually, if Iain's 'friend' wants to sell his 'red Armstrong rat's nest' for ten quid, I'd be interested in buying it if it's in working condition and looks OK (apart from his opinion of the wiring appearance). I've never seen one in the flesh. Would be useful to take some photos. I could then sell it on. If anyone wants to follow up my comments about Leak, I can recommend a letter by Jack Dinsdale which HFN published in their November 1996 issue. It relates to how an early transistor amp design by Jack and Dick Tobey was, erm, 'adopted' by Leak and sold as the Stereo 30 without their permission or prior knowledge. If you can't find HFN, note that they'd actually *patented* the design when working for Elliot Bros. May help you to decide why Leak was able to get about in a Rolls when mere designers might need a bicycle. :-) Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Wow and Forum
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message ... In article , Eiron Iain wrote This may explain why Harold Leak rode to the factory in a Rolls and Ted Rule used a bicycle:-) Jim Wrote It does seem a rather odd outburst coming out of nowhere onto this thread. You mentioned a cheap Armstrong system on e-Bay. I mentioned the red Armstrong valve amp. But it is an interesting example of someone judging something purely on appearances. :-) Build quality is indeed only part of the story. It will be interesting to take some measurements, and do some listening also. The Rolls Royce/bicycle joke is as old as the hills. I am sure TR has heard it:-) I heard it first many years ago, from a salesman at a hifi shop (Henry's?) in Tottenham Court Road. I had a summer job in a small studio nearby and I used to spend my lunchtimes at the hifi shop listening to their amp and speaker demos. TBH I'm not sure Ted rode a bicycle. I'll ask him. Iain might find it useful to be aware that he is still alive in case he wants to futher patronise him or criticise his work. Yes, I know he is still alive. Hopefully in good health. I do not criticise his work but state plainly that the inside of the amp is a rat's comparted with Leak TL12. I will post some pics when available. As for the Rolls, well Leak was always very good at publicity and self-promotion. He had quality products, a good engineering team, and a workshop full of delightful middle-aged ladies in headscarves and bright floral aprons, who had worked for the Gov't wiring mil-spec equipment just a few years before. (I know about the ladies becuse I visited the factory in East Acton with my Dad when I was a very young lad:-) Henry Leak himself was a first class salesman. He travelled the world demonstrating Leak products. The UK national press covered his trip to Australia. Excellent PR. But some may recall the story of how his (sic) first transistor amp design was actually 'developled'. Most of us know the story (apocryphal) Jim. No one would be so foolish. A locker at Waterloo station propably cost 3d back then:-) Do you think anyone believes such a tall story? BTW Iain, if your friend wants to sell the amp, I'm sure he can get a higher price for it somewhere and make a profit. He may not be able to buy his own Rolls from it, though. I made him an offer. It would be an interesting piece of British audio history to own. I recently visited a dealer who has a pristine pair of Leak TL12's for sale (consecutive serial numbers) at SEK 12,000 (that's roughly UKP 1000) There is a similar pair on e-Bay at the moment going cheap at £700 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Leak-TL-12...-/152075207596 Still four days to go. There is also a pair of TL10s at UKP 1300 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pair-of-Le...-/262302181486 Iain |
Wow and Forum
In article , Iain Churches
wrote: "Jim Lesurf" wrote in message ... In article , Eiron Iain wrote This may explain why Harold Leak rode to the factory in a Rolls and Ted Rule used a bicycle:-) Jim Wrote It does seem a rather odd outburst coming out of nowhere onto this thread. You mentioned a cheap Armstrong system on e-Bay. I mentioned the red Armstrong valve amp. Ah! Curious that you felt 1,136 quid was cheap! The units were above 800 quid IIRC when new 30+ years ago. I hadn't thought the price would go up to over a 1000 quid now, but people do sometimes pay wild prices on ebay, etc. So it may not be a good way to judge such matters... even for Leak kit you gave ebay examples of. :-) I'm now wondering if you've muddled up which amplifiers I was talking about in your eagerness to comment. Henry Leak himself was a first class salesman. He travelled the world demonstrating Leak products. The UK national press covered his trip to Australia. Excellent PR. Yes, he was good at all that. :-) But some may recall the story of how his (sic) first transistor amp design was actually 'developled'. Most of us know the story (apocryphal) Jim. No one would be so foolish. A locker at Waterloo station propably cost 3d back then:-) Do you think anyone believes such a tall story? Which story are you referring to? The one told by Jack Dinsdale? Your "locker" comment seems to refer to something else. If so, you'd have to explain and give details before anyone could comment. I think Jack is dead, so you could call him a liar if you chose and not be sued. I don't know if people would accept being told that, though. But again, I'm now wondering if you've reacted without realising what I was referring to. BTW Iain, if your friend wants to sell the amp, I'm sure he can get a higher price for it somewhere and make a profit. He may not be able to buy his own Rolls from it, though. I made him an offer. It would be an interesting piece of British audio history to own. Personally, I don't want to "own" it as I don't collect kit for its own sake. So you're welcome to outbid the ten quid I had in mind. :-) In fairness, warn him as he is a friend that sometimes you can get quite high prices on ebay. What I would like is to be able to get more photos than I have of one in good visual condition. It would also be nice to see and examine one as I've only ever seen that design in photos. I agree the red looks a bit startingly naff these days. But a lot of old kit looks weird to modern eyes. Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Wow and Forum
In article , pamela
wrote: On 15:40 25 Apr 2016, Jim Lesurf wrote: I've recently given in and have tried joining a 'web forum' on audio (pink fish). This seems OK, and the people are friendly, but I still find usenet easier to use. But alas, most people seem to have migrated away from usenet... SNIP I hadn't heard of the Pink Fish audio forum. At one time, Hydrogen was a biggie. http://hydrogenaud.io/ Which are the main audio forums these days? I don't know. The only one I've tried is pink fish. Chose it because it came up in a discussion I had with someone via email. And I guess it depends on what you would regard as the marks of being "main". There may be forums with many more users, but a lower SNR or a lot of sniping, etc. I find forum web interfaces awkard to use compared with usenet. Pink Fish seems OK, and it has some sections I find interesting, but I can't make any comparisions with other audio forums. One nice feature I discovered about Pink Fish is that the admid buys and sells secondhand LPs, CDs, etc. So I've already bought few examples. I *did*, some years ago, write some material for another forum because the person who ran it invited me to check the claims someone was making about 'bi wiring'. But I can't now ever recall which forum it was! So if someone wants to try a UK-based audio web forum, I can suggest pink fish is one worth considering. But "other fora are available"... or do I mean "forums" or even "forii"? 8-] Jim -- Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html |
Wow and Forum
On Sat, 07 May 2016 18:48:55 +0100, pamela wrote:
On 15:40 25 Apr 2016, Jim Lesurf wrote: I've recently given in and have tried joining a 'web forum' on audio (pink fish). This seems OK, and the people are friendly, but I still find usenet easier to use. But alas, most people seem to have migrated away from usenet... SNIP I hadn't heard of the Pink Fish audio forum. At one time, Hydrogen was a biggie. http://hydrogenaud.io/ Which are the main audio forums these days? Like most here, I prefer Usenet, but since you asked... While I don't know if you could call these "main" or not (I don't have the criteria or the statistics), you might try these: Steve Hoffman's: http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/ Audio Asylum: http://audioasylum.com/ Audiogon forums: https://forum.audiogon.com/ ------------------------------------------ My email is JohnMee3 AT comcast.net, not whatever is in the header |
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