Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

I've been working though a folder of old Ferrograph documents, scanning
them to put onto the ukhhsoc website. I came across a circuit diagram that
doesn't look to me like it is of any Ferrograph item. Presumably mis-filed
at some ancient time.

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
I've been working though a folder of old Ferrograph documents, scanning
them to put onto the ukhhsoc website. I came across a circuit diagram that
doesn't look to me like it is of any Ferrograph item. Presumably mis-filed
at some ancient time.

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?

Did Ferrograph ever use DIN connectors? Also can't say I can remember ever
seeing a 5 pin DIN used as a headphone socket. Sounds like something
Grundig would do. ;-)

--
*Is there another word for synonym?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

On 25/11/2016 15:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
I've been working though a folder of old Ferrograph documents, scanning
them to put onto the ukhhsoc website. I came across a circuit diagram that
doesn't look to me like it is of any Ferrograph item. Presumably mis-filed
at some ancient time.

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?

Did Ferrograph ever use DIN connectors? Also can't say I can remember ever
seeing a 5 pin DIN used as a headphone socket. Sounds like something
Grundig would do. ;-)


I remember my Dad had a Grundig TK40 and that used 5 pin DINs for all
the connectors.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I've been working though a folder of old Ferrograph documents,
scanning
them to put onto the ukhhsoc website. I came across a circuit
diagram that
doesn't look to me like it is of any Ferrograph item. Presumably
mis-filed
at some ancient time.

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?



Well it clearly a reel to reel (probably) quarter track tape recorder
with built-in amplifers. However the type of diagram is quite specific
in that it has a component map at the top, and a quick bit of Googling
of diagrams of all of the well known German manufacturers suggests it
might be Uher.



--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

In article ,
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 25/11/2016 15:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
I've been working though a folder of old Ferrograph documents,
scanning them to put onto the ukhhsoc website. I came across a
circuit diagram that doesn't look to me like it is of any Ferrograph
item. Presumably mis-filed at some ancient time.

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?

Did Ferrograph ever use DIN connectors? Also can't say I can remember
ever seeing a 5 pin DIN used as a headphone socket. Sounds like
something Grundig would do. ;-)


I remember my Dad had a Grundig TK40 and that used 5 pin DINs for all
the connectors.

DIN connectors were pretty common on most German stuff at one time.
Odd given the German reputation (and rightly so) for engineering things
well. Spawn of satan, DIN connectors. ;-)

--
*In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

In article ,
Woody wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I've been working though a folder of old Ferrograph documents,
scanning
them to put onto the ukhhsoc website. I came across a circuit
diagram that
doesn't look to me like it is of any Ferrograph item. Presumably
mis-filed
at some ancient time.

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?



Well it clearly a reel to reel (probably) quarter track tape recorder
with built-in amplifers. However the type of diagram is quite specific
in that it has a component map at the top, and a quick bit of Googling
of diagrams of all of the well known German manufacturers suggests it
might be Uher.

Interesting. I've never seen a full size Uher machine - just their
portables.

--
*Microsoft broke Volkswagen's record: They only made 21.4 million bugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

On 26/11/2016 01:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

DIN connectors were pretty common on most German stuff at one time.
Odd given the German reputation (and rightly so) for engineering things
well. Spawn of satan, DIN connectors. ;-)

An odd point of view, considering the alternative.
Who would design a plug that connects the signal before the ground?
And which leaves the signal pin so exposed when a cable is connected at one end only?
I'm sure that phono connectors have resulted in much needless destruction.

--
Eiron.

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

In article , Woody
wrote:

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?



Well it clearly a reel to reel (probably) quarter track tape recorder
with built-in amplifers. However the type of diagram is quite specific
in that it has a component map at the top, and a quick bit of Googling
of diagrams of all of the well known German manufacturers suggests it
might be Uher.

Ah! That may be an interesting clue. Thanks.

I don't recall ever seeing any Uher kit or diagrams. And - so far as I
recall - no Uher items in the anechoic chamber. However there could easily
have been some in the past which were discarded before I took over the
chamber.

The sheet has part of one corner torn off. I have been wondering if it
initially had one or more attached sheets which gave more info. e.g. What
we see looks like a tape-deck based system. But doesn't seem to have an
oscillator for bias/erasure. So maybe there were more diagrams and/or
sheets which actually identified the unit.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

When they were associated with North East Audio Limited they produced some
cassette decks most of which had phono and din connections.

Obviously cannot see your picture, but just commenting about dins.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
I've been working though a folder of old Ferrograph documents, scanning
them to put onto the ukhhsoc website. I came across a circuit diagram
that
doesn't look to me like it is of any Ferrograph item. Presumably
mis-filed
at some ancient time.

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?

Did Ferrograph ever use DIN connectors? Also can't say I can remember ever
seeing a 5 pin DIN used as a headphone socket. Sounds like something
Grundig would do. ;-)

--
*Is there another word for synonym?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

In article ,
Eiron wrote:
On 26/11/2016 01:23, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

DIN connectors were pretty common on most German stuff at one time.
Odd given the German reputation (and rightly so) for engineering things
well. Spawn of satan, DIN connectors. ;-)

An odd point of view, considering the alternative.

Lots of alternatives.

Who would design a plug that connects the signal before the ground?

Why would that matter? No domestic connector like that is designed to be
plugged and unplugged regularly. Unlike, say, a charger lead to your
phone. Or headphones.

And which leaves the signal pin so exposed when a cable is connected at
one end only? I'm sure that phono connectors have resulted in much
needless destruction.

Destruction of what?

Problem with the standard quality DIN sockets and leads found on domestic
equipment is they become unreliable long before a similar phono does.

You can buy good quality connectors to the same format as DIN, though.

--
*I'm not a paranoid, deranged millionaire. Dammit, I'm a billionaire.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Woody
wrote:

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?



Well it clearly a reel to reel (probably) quarter track tape recorder
with built-in amplifers. However the type of diagram is quite specific
in that it has a component map at the top, and a quick bit of Googling
of diagrams of all of the well known German manufacturers suggests it
might be Uher.

Ah! That may be an interesting clue. Thanks.

I don't recall ever seeing any Uher kit or diagrams. And - so far as I
recall - no Uher items in the anechoic chamber. However there could easily
have been some in the past which were discarded before I took over the
chamber.

The sheet has part of one corner torn off. I have been wondering if it
initially had one or more attached sheets which gave more info. e.g. What
we see looks like a tape-deck based system. But doesn't seem to have an
oscillator for bias/erasure. So maybe there were more diagrams and/or
sheets which actually identified the unit.

Jim


In the mid 1970's, Uher made a number of tape recorders,
often used by reporters and journalists, including the COI.

The model 1200 was a professional mains and battery
mono recorder with a pilot tone synchroniser to film.

The Uher 4200 was a popular stereo recorder.

There were two table models SG520 and SG 560.


Iain

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

Jim Lesurf writes:

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)
Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?

It's a Philips deck from the late 60s, but I'm not sure exactly which
model.

The diagram style matches the Philips N4404, N4405 and N4407:

http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_lib...ps/n4404.shtml
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Philips-N4...-/111349431800
http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_lib...ps/n4407.shtml

But none of those models have a regulated PSU. The N4408 does, and more
to the point it has an identical layout of audio connectors to the one
in the mystery diagram:

http://www.hifiengine.com/manual_lib...ps/n4408.shtml

However, hifiengine's (generic) schematic is still quite different from
Jim's. So perhaps the mystery machine is an earlier/later variant of the
N4408, or another contemporary Philips model?

Thanks,

--
Adam Sampson http://offog.org/

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

In article ,
Adam Sampson wrote:
Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?

It's a Philips deck from the late 60s, but I'm not sure exactly which
model.

The diagram style matches the Philips N4404, N4405 and N4407:

That would make more sense than Uher.

I've got some maker's workshop manuals for Philips TVs dating from their
first colour TV to the mid '90s, but the style is nothing like Jim's
schematic. Which of course means nothing. ;-)

--
*Horn broken. - Watch for finger.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Adam Sampson wrote:
Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?

It's a Philips deck from the late 60s, but I'm not sure exactly
which
model.

The diagram style matches the Philips N4404, N4405 and N4407:

That would make more sense than Uher.

I've got some maker's workshop manuals for Philips TVs dating from
their
first colour TV to the mid '90s, but the style is nothing like Jim's
schematic. Which of course means nothing. ;-)

--

Having been an employee of the Philips group for nearly 30 years
whenever I bought any electronic item from the Staff Shop I always
obtained a service manual at best or a circuit diagram at worst -
Philips manuals were easily available to anyone through Combined
Electronic Services (CES) a.k.a. the Philips Service Dept.

The manuals I had were all in English and (AFAICR) never have the
component map, but there again information changes between market
versions so it may have been that German market handbooks did have the
map.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

I did not think they made full size non portables, though the term portable
for their reel to reel machines was a bit misleading, luggable certainly!
Incidentally some of the varients of Tandbergs machines could have Din
microphone sockets instead of anything else. I had one. Really irritating
when you needed an adaptor.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Woody wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
I've been working though a folder of old Ferrograph documents,
scanning
them to put onto the ukhhsoc website. I came across a circuit
diagram that
doesn't look to me like it is of any Ferrograph item. Presumably
mis-filed
at some ancient time.

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?



Well it clearly a reel to reel (probably) quarter track tape recorder
with built-in amplifers. However the type of diagram is quite specific
in that it has a component map at the top, and a quick bit of Googling
of diagrams of all of the well known German manufacturers suggests it
might be Uher.

Interesting. I've never seen a full size Uher machine - just their
portables.

--
*Microsoft broke Volkswagen's record: They only made 21.4 million bugs.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

A Philips manual I had for a vcr had horrible photos of the top of the
circuit board, not a lot of use for anything but locating fixing screws!
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Woody" wrote in message
...

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Adam Sampson wrote:
Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?

It's a Philips deck from the late 60s, but I'm not sure exactly which
model.

The diagram style matches the Philips N4404, N4405 and N4407:

That would make more sense than Uher.

I've got some maker's workshop manuals for Philips TVs dating from their
first colour TV to the mid '90s, but the style is nothing like Jim's
schematic. Which of course means nothing. ;-)

--

Having been an employee of the Philips group for nearly 30 years whenever
I bought any electronic item from the Staff Shop I always obtained a
service manual at best or a circuit diagram at worst - Philips manuals
were easily available to anyone through Combined Electronic Services (CES)
a.k.a. the Philips Service Dept.

The manuals I had were all in English and (AFAICR) never have the
component map, but there again information changes between market versions
so it may have been that German market handbooks did have the map.


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

In article , Woody
scribeth thus

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Adam Sampson wrote:
Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?

It's a Philips deck from the late 60s, but I'm not sure exactly
which
model.

The diagram style matches the Philips N4404, N4405 and N4407:

That would make more sense than Uher.

I've got some maker's workshop manuals for Philips TVs dating from
their
first colour TV to the mid '90s, but the style is nothing like Jim's
schematic. Which of course means nothing. ;-)

--

Having been an employee of the Philips group for nearly 30 years
whenever I bought any electronic item from the Staff Shop I always
obtained a service manual at best or a circuit diagram at worst -
Philips manuals were easily available to anyone through Combined
Electronic Services (CES) a.k.a. the Philips Service Dept.

The manuals I had were all in English and (AFAICR) never have the
component map, but there again information changes between market
versions so it may have been that German market handbooks did have the
map.



Deffo a three speed machine.

That number 3103 etc on the bottom right corner sure looks a Phillips
number never seen the word "execution" on a diagram before;!..
--
Tony Sayer

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

On Fri, 25 Nov 2016 15:27:46 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
I've been working though a folder of old Ferrograph documents, scanning
them to put onto the ukhhsoc website. I came across a circuit diagram
that doesn't look to me like it is of any Ferrograph item. Presumably
mis-filed at some ancient time.

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?

Did Ferrograph ever use DIN connectors? Also can't say I can remember
ever seeing a 5 pin DIN used as a headphone socket. Sounds like
something Grundig would do. ;-)

It's definitely a 3 speed (4.75, 9.5 and 19 cm/s speed switch) stereo
tape recorder (not deck - it has loudspeaker amps) which seems to be
labelled in German or possibly Dutch which, with the use of DIN sockets,
strongly suggests Phillips or Grundig as being the culprit for this
domestic abortion of reel to reel tape recording technology. It certainly
has nothing whatsoever to do with Ferrograph, that's for sure! :-)

--
Johnny B Good

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 01:23:05 +0000, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article ,
Graeme Wall wrote:
On 25/11/2016 15:27, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
I've been working though a folder of old Ferrograph documents,
scanning them to put onto the ukhhsoc website. I came across a
circuit diagram that doesn't look to me like it is of any Ferrograph
item. Presumably mis-filed at some ancient time.

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?

Did Ferrograph ever use DIN connectors? Also can't say I can remember
ever seeing a 5 pin DIN used as a headphone socket. Sounds like
something Grundig would do. ;-)


I remember my Dad had a Grundig TK40 and that used 5 pin DINs for all
the connectors.

DIN connectors were pretty common on most German stuff at one time. Odd
given the German reputation (and rightly so) for engineering things
well. Spawn of satan, DIN connectors. ;-)

Yes they were! They may have gained some kudos if they'd thought to
insist that pins 1 (and 4) were *only* ever designated as inputs and pins
3 (and 5) *only* as outputs so that the only legitimate 5 or 3 pin DIN
connecting cables were wired as cross-over types but they overlooked this
opportunity to enforce a commonsense standard that would have curtailed
the profiteering opportunities in the interconnect marketplace, a feature
that would have endeared this interconnect standard to the "Hi-Fi buying
Public".

The only advantage of the constant current sources into virtual earth
sinks system was the ease with which you can mix the outputs from several
sources into one virtual earth sink (and the capability to bridge stereo
pairs to downmix to mono without inducing distortion in the source
amplifiers), otherwise (discounting the stereo into mono feature) it
makes more sense to use constant voltage sources feeding mid to high Z
sinks as is more typically the case with the phono plug and socket
alternative.

--
Johnny B Good

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

On Sat, 26 Nov 2016 09:21:27 +0000, Jim Lesurf wrote:

In article , Woody
wrote:

I have put a copy at

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/Unknown.jpeg (about 3MB file)

Can anyone recogise this and say what it is?



Well it clearly a reel to reel (probably) quarter track tape recorder
with built-in amplifers. However the type of diagram is quite specific
in that it has a component map at the top, and a quick bit of Googling
of diagrams of all of the well known German manufacturers suggests it
might be Uher.

Ah! That may be an interesting clue. Thanks.

I don't recall ever seeing any Uher kit or diagrams. And - so far as I
recall - no Uher items in the anechoic chamber. However there could
easily have been some in the past which were discarded before I took
over the chamber.

The sheet has part of one corner torn off. I have been wondering if it
initially had one or more attached sheets which gave more info. e.g.
What we see looks like a tape-deck based system. But doesn't seem to
have an oscillator for bias/erasure. So maybe there were more diagrams
and/or sheets which actually identified the unit.

Near the middle of the diagram, C21/L201 and C121/L202 look
suspiciously like link winding coupled bias traps with the link windings
in parallel connected to what seems to be the bias/erase oscillator
transistor emitter (TS201) driving the erase head windings (K2 and K102).

It's quite obvious that this is a domestic tape recorder using K1 and
K101 for both playback and record head functions. Whilst using the same
head for both recording and playback functions reduces costs, it does
compromise the performance in one or both of these seperate functions
since you need a wide gapped lo-Z wound head optimised for recording and
a narrow gapped Hi-Z wound head for best replay performance (being able
to monitor the just recorded signal coming back from the tape *isn't* the
primary consideration with a separate record and replay head setup, even
though that happens to be a very welcome feature).

What makes interpretation of the circuitry tricky is the logic behind
the way the complex switching is labelled. There are tables on the LHS of
the diagram that attempt to describe the cryptic labelling of the
functions of each switch in the form of a puzzle worthy of the detective
skills ascribed to the eponymous Mr Sherlock Holmes.

I've no doubt, given enough motivation to do so, there's enough
information coded into those tables for the dedicated sleuth to work it
all out. Since I'm not in the least bit motivated, I'm not going to "burn
up" any more of my sleuthing skills than I've already squandered other
than to say it's safe to assume what the switches will do when analysing
the circuitry from each possible assumed state of playback or recording
circuit functioning (along with the compounding influences of speed and
mode settings such as mono recording on tracks 1 or 4 or 2 and 3 and
"duoplay"-presumably dubbing track 1 or 4 playback to track 3 or 2
recording whilst mixing in from a mic or line input source).

In short, it does look rather like the whole of the tape recorder
circuitry is actually laid out in that one diagram. The lack of a model
number reference however, does suggest that this is one of many pages out
of a workshop service manual. Unless you strike it lucky by this being
seen by someone who actually used such a service manual, I doubt you'll
be able to pin it down to better than a guess as to it being a Phillips
or Grundig domestic 4 track tape recorder circuit diagram.

--
Johnny B Good

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

On 28/11/2016 17:55, Johnny B Good wrote:
which seems to be
labelled in German or possibly Dutch which

It makes far too much sense to me to be Dutch. Must be Deutsch.

Andy

Anyone recognise this diagram?
 

In article ,
Johnny B Good wrote:
It's definitely a 3 speed (4.75, 9.5 and 19 cm/s speed switch) stereo
tape recorder (not deck - it has loudspeaker amps)

In early tape recorder days, pretty well all - including Ferrograph - had
a built in speaker. Even early Revox. And I think this continued with some
even in stereo days.

And even the Revox A77 had provision for built in power amps.

--
*Don't use no double negatives *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.