BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

Just been listening to the Brahms German Requiem live from the Chapel
of King's College Cambridge.

I have to say that I am not a particular lover of Brahms and even less
of his Requiem, but having been a resident of Cambridge years ago and
been to many concerts and choral evensongs in that Chapel I have to
say the sound was stunning - so real and clear, you could almost have
been there.

Ah well, just 18 more days to go so must make the most of it.



--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the stuff on
the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to actually use
it long term for anything.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

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"Woody" wrote in message
...
Just been listening to the Brahms German Requiem live from the Chapel of
King's College Cambridge.

I have to say that I am not a particular lover of Brahms and even less of
his Requiem, but having been a resident of Cambridge years ago and been to
many concerts and choral evensongs in that Chapel I have to say the sound
was stunning - so real and clear, you could almost have been there.

Ah well, just 18 more days to go so must make the most of it.



--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

Top posted for Brian's sake.

AIUI The point is to see if they can stream it reliably, assess any
increase in server load, etc, a changeover would require, *and* get
positive feedback that people *want* it. They could then use the feedback
to argue that it justifies a likely increase in copyright permissions
payments, etc.

Not yet sure, but I've had the impression that they are also experimenting
with the details of how the stream is being served. e.g. I got some types
of error (from ffmpeg) on the 10th that haven't recurred more recently. But
as yet that may be luck!

Up to people who want it to now react by saying they do via the relevant
feedback routes. I'll certainly write about it for HFN. But, alas, that
won't appear for 3+ months.

Jim


In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the stuff
on the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to
actually use it long term for anything. Brian

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

On 15/04/17 09:20, Brian Gaff wrote:
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the stuff on
the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to actually use
it long term for anything.

A compensation for removing FM.

--
Adrian C

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 15/04/17 09:20, Brian Gaff wrote:
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the
stuff on the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to
actually use it long term for anything.

A compensation for removing FM.

Heard that rumour again the other day. Given how many listen in cars, I
can't see the commercial broadcasters being happy with that.
Do all cars have DAB these days? My newest one doesn't - despite having
the very expensive Bose upgrade sound system.

--
*You're never too old to learn something stupid.
Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

In article , Bob Latham
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:

Up to people who want it to now react by saying they do via the
relevant feedback routes.

Which are?

I think the BBC want people to use the link on

http://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/projects...d/inside-story

that goes to

http://www.bbc.co.uk/taster/projects...ert-sound/rate

However I'm not sure because I've been interacting more directly with
people thus far. I'm currently mainly focussed on capturing examples for
later listening and analysis.

However give the above a try and see if they are OK.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

Hmm, to me though as I said before, it really needs to be used on the more
mainstream channels and for that to be worth it, the BBC needs to up their
game engineering wise to at least as good as it was in the late 70s and
early 80s, not the leave a limiter in charge and go down the pub system they
to use these days.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
Top posted for Brian's sake.

AIUI The point is to see if they can stream it reliably, assess any
increase in server load, etc, a changeover would require, *and* get
positive feedback that people *want* it. They could then use the feedback
to argue that it justifies a likely increase in copyright permissions
payments, etc.

Not yet sure, but I've had the impression that they are also experimenting
with the details of how the stream is being served. e.g. I got some types
of error (from ffmpeg) on the 10th that haven't recurred more recently.
But
as yet that may be luck!

Up to people who want it to now react by saying they do via the relevant
feedback routes. I'll certainly write about it for HFN. But, alas, that
won't appear for 3+ months.

Jim


In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the stuff
on the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to
actually use it long term for anything. Brian

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics
https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

Who the heck actually does? Smoke signals perhaps?
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Bob Latham" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:

Up to people who want it to now react by saying they do via the relevant
feedback routes.

Which are?

Sorry I don't know where/how to do this.

Bob.

--
Bob Latham
Stourbridge, West Midlands

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

No they seem to be saying they want to prove the idea works, end of story.
Maybe its a start up company going to see if providing this is viable and
wanted.


However we are notorious in this country for good ideas that everyone else
makes money from.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Adrian Caspersz" wrote in message
...
On 15/04/17 09:20, Brian Gaff wrote:
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the stuff
on
the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to actually
use
it long term for anything.

A compensation for removing FM.

--
Adrian C

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

If you listened to the R3 flac stream you'd realise how daftly
inappropriate your comments are below.

And its a *test*.

Jim

In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
Hmm, to me though as I said before, it really needs to be used on the
more mainstream channels and for that to be worth it, the BBC needs to
up their game engineering wise to at least as good as it was in the late
70s and early 80s, not the leave a limiter in charge and go down the pub
system they to use these days. Brian

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

BBC Engineering? No such thing any more, it's all done by jounalists (sic).

Wot, me bitter?

On 16/04/2017 09:33, Brian Gaff wrote:
Hmm, to me though as I said before, it really needs to be used on the more
mainstream channels and for that to be worth it, the BBC needs to up their
game engineering wise to at least as good as it was in the late 70s and
early 80s, not the leave a limiter in charge and go down the pub system they
to use these days.
Brian



--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

In article , Woody
wrote:

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
BBC Engineering? No such thing any more, it's all done by jounalists
(sic).



Actually much of it is done (or was done) by Siemens.

The original systems were, indeed, done by 'Nemesis'. However the later
developments have tended to be a mix of in-house work and outsourcing how
it is done. Given the complexity and scale, quite an amazing achievement so
far as the iplayer is concerned.

However in the end, they can then only prodive what they are fed by the
various channels. In radio this varies from R3 (generally excellent
quality) down to level-compressed/processed stuff which other channels feed
in.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

"Graeme Wall" wrote in message
...
BBC Engineering? No such thing any more, it's all done by
jounalists (sic).




Actually much of it is done (or was done) by Siemens.




--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
However in the end, they can then only prodive what they are fed by the
various channels. In radio this varies from R3 (generally excellent
quality) down to level-compressed/processed stuff which other channels
feed in.

It's a moot point. How much processing is done after whoever is doing the
sound balance is happy with it. And it could equally well happen on R3
same as any other service.

--
*"I am " is reportedly the shortest sentence in the English language. *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

Interesting that no-ine has flamed me yet for the type in the subject!


--
Woody

harrogate3 at ntlworld dot com

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:
However in the end, they can then only prodive what they are fed by
the various channels. In radio this varies from R3 (generally
excellent quality) down to level-compressed/processed stuff which
other channels feed in.

It's a moot point. How much processing is done after whoever is doing
the sound balance is happy with it. And it could equally well happen on
R3 same as any other service.

Yes, the R3 FM gets 'optimoded', etc. But the R3 iplayer doesn't. The
problems with other stations tends to arise before the feeds reach a
central point for redistribution.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

In article , Brian Gaff
scribeth thus
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the stuff on
the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to actually use
it long term for anything.
Brian


It does seem to be in the lets try and see how we get on and if theres
enough interest then we might make it permanently available.

It's probably more to do with the way the BBC works and various
departments get funded than owt else;!..
--
Tony Sayer

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
scribeth thus
In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 15/04/17 09:20, Brian Gaff wrote:
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the
stuff on the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to
actually use it long term for anything.

A compensation for removing FM.

Heard that rumour again the other day. Given how many listen in cars, I
can't see the commercial broadcasters being happy with that.
Do all cars have DAB these days? My newest one doesn't - despite having
the very expensive Bose upgrade sound system.


No they do not Dave, more are getting the DAB band but not all...
--
Tony Sayer

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

On 15/04/2017 14:41, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 15/04/17 09:20, Brian Gaff wrote:
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the
stuff on the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to
actually use it long term for anything.

A compensation for removing FM.

Heard that rumour again the other day. Given how many listen in cars, I
can't see the commercial broadcasters being happy with that.
Do all cars have DAB these days? My newest one doesn't - despite having
the very expensive Bose upgrade sound system.


Mine doesn't. 59-plate Astra with CD30 radio/cd.

FM is my main listening medium, including in the house.
I'll be annoyed if I lose R2,R3, R4 and Classic from FM because
DAB in the West Sussex 'black hole notspot' between Midhurst,
Horsham and Bognor makes it unusable.

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

Top posted for Brians sake

I have just tried it, and to my untrained ear it sounds brilliant.
R3 FM where I live is a bit hissy at the moment, which usually means
a trip round the house cleaning all the fm connections, notably to
my home-made dipole in the loft (pointing to Rowbridge).

Via my computer, all this hiss has gone and without any of the
awful dab bubbling mud.

WIN 7 Pro 32 bit. Firefox 52.0.2,Gigabyte GA-880GM-UDH2 Mboard with
onboard sound connected using a 2-metre slim coax with a 3.5 plug
each end into AUX2 on my Onkyo CR515 MiniHifi and the Onkyo speakers.

No buffering or dropouts, and now that the helpful Paddy on the
BT community forums has sorted out my broadband I seem to be getting
a decent download (see below) but one fly in the ointment is I need to
turn up the volume on my Onkyo to hear it. If I switch back to FM
the existing FM channels are way too loud.

The speakers are set to 100% on the Realtek Audio mixer. Is there
some way of arranging for R3 FM and R3 Flac to have the same
volume ?.

Also, since my (desktop) computer is upstairs, and the main TV etc
together with my Home Hub 3 downstairs, how could I get the output
from my soundcard connected to a hifi system downstairs ?. There is
CAT5e cable connecting HH3a to my PC and I have a Netgear GS105
sitting boxed, waiting for an application.

The weak-link at the moment seems to be the need for firefox 51+
on a desktop so any solution using a tablet seems to be out of the
question (for now).

Andrew

1. Product name: BT Home Hub
2. Serial number: +nnnnnnnnnnn
3. Firmware version: Software version 4.7.5.1.83.8.94.1.52 (Type A) Last
updated 30/09/16
4. Board version: BT Home Hub 3.0A
5. ADSL uptime: 1 days, 18:57:59
6. Bandwidth: 1239 / 17143
7. Data sent/received: 0.0 / 0.1
8. Broadband username:
9. BT FON: No
10. Wireless network/SSID: BTHub3-xxxx
11. Wireless connections: Enabled, (802.11 b/g/n (Recommended)) 20 MHz,
WPS enabled
12. Wireless security: WPA and WPA2
13. Wireless channel: Automatic / 1
14. Firewall: Default
15. MAC Address: xxxxxx
16. VPI/VCI: 0 / 38
17. Line profile: Fast
18. Software variant: -
19. Boot loader: -

On 15/04/2017 10:23, Jim Lesurf wrote:
Top posted for Brian's sake.

AIUI The point is to see if they can stream it reliably, assess any
increase in server load, etc, a changeover would require, *and* get
positive feedback that people *want* it. They could then use the feedback
to argue that it justifies a likely increase in copyright permissions
payments, etc.

Not yet sure, but I've had the impression that they are also experimenting
with the details of how the stream is being served. e.g. I got some types
of error (from ffmpeg) on the 10th that haven't recurred more recently. But
as yet that may be luck!

Up to people who want it to now react by saying they do via the relevant
feedback routes. I'll certainly write about it for HFN. But, alas, that
won't appear for 3+ months.

Jim


In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the stuff
on the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to
actually use it long term for anything. Brian

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Brian Gaff
scribeth thus
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the stuff on
the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to actually use
it long term for anything.
Brian


It does seem to be in the lets try and see how we get on and if theres
enough interest then we might make it permanently available.

It's probably more to do with the way the BBC works and various
departments get funded than owt else;!..

The main problem, I think, in this case is the balance between "people will
want and prefer it" + "it is better" versus "music companies will want
higher IPR payments". So far as I can tell, the trial is being time limited
because of worries that music biz companies will regard it as 'Audio CD
quality' whereas the aac can be seen as 'lossy, so lower than Audio CD'.

In effect, the R3 people would like to use flac, but beancounters and suits
may say "no". Hence I think they are hoping for a positive reaction to wave
at the beancounters.

The increase in required stream bandwith per user is modest. The tests I've
run seem to turn out in the range of 450 - 500 k compared with the 320 for
aac. So a clear increase in system loading, but still piffle compared with
BBC1 streams in the 50fps video formats. But, then, for some odd reason
BBC1 gets more of the cake than R3!

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

In article ,
Andrew wrote:
On 15/04/2017 14:41, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Adrian Caspersz wrote:
On 15/04/17 09:20, Brian Gaff wrote:
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the
stuff on the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans
to actually use it long term for anything.

A compensation for removing FM.

Heard that rumour again the other day. Given how many listen in cars, I
can't see the commercial broadcasters being happy with that.
Do all cars have DAB these days? My newest one doesn't - despite having
the very expensive Bose upgrade sound system.


Mine doesn't. 59-plate Astra with CD30 radio/cd.

FM is my main listening medium, including in the house.
I'll be annoyed if I lose R2,R3, R4 and Classic from FM because
DAB in the West Sussex 'black hole notspot' between Midhurst,
Horsham and Bognor makes it unusable.

I have an audio analogue distribution system here, and use FreeView tuners
for radio. Seems easier to distribute UHF round the house than a VHF FM
aerial signal - and of course you can use it for TV too.

--
*If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

In article , Andrew
wrote:


The speakers are set to 100% on the Realtek Audio mixer. Is there some
way of arranging for R3 FM and R3 Flac to have the same volume ?.

Afraid not. The R3 iplayer streams and the test flac stream have no
automated level-compression applied. But R3 FM does. So in general, they
will differ. All you can do is tweak levels to get what seems like a
comfortable level for each. It may change with the programme material.


The weak-link at the moment seems to be the need for firefox 51+ on a
desktop so any solution using a tablet seems to be out of the question
(for now).

I'm using a version of ffmpeg to capture the steams as files. However
setting this up is a real PITA unless you are computer geek. I have been
told that Chrome works. But I have no idea about that or what other
browsers, etc, might for the flac test. Sadly we now only have a couple of
weeks before the flac test will end. :-/

Use the BBC feedback pages to let them know you think the flac stream is
excellent and "ask for more"! :-)

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian Gaff
scribeth thus
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the stuff on
the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to actually use
it long term for anything.
Brian


It does seem to be in the lets try and see how we get on and if theres
enough interest then we might make it permanently available.

It's probably more to do with the way the BBC works and various
departments get funded than owt else;!..
--
Tony Sayer


Which is a very good reason to give positive feedback.

Iain

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

I've had confirmation from people I know at the BBC that they *will* be
streaming this year's proms as flac. :-) I asked about this and got the
reply below

Yes, it is correct. There is a longer statement from Alan Davey he
https://radiotoday.co.uk/2017/04/bbc...aming-quality/

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

In article , Iain Churches
wrote:

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

It does seem to be in the lets try and see how we get on and if
theres enough interest then we might make it permanently available.

It's probably more to do with the way the BBC works and various
departments get funded than owt else;!.. -- Tony Sayer


Which is a very good reason to give positive feedback.

Yes. People more generally should bear in mind that such developments have
had a habit of first appearing as a R3 trial, then as a R3 stream, then
tend to spread to the other stations and 'on demand'. So it may benefit
other listeners in time if the same approach comes to fruit.

Sadly, I'm not sure how many people, so far, have either realised that the
trial has been running, or been able to make correct use of it. In the
nature of such things that people may have to fiddle about with their
computer, etc, or engage in 'geeky' things when they are a trial.

However the good news is that it's been confirmed that the Proms this year
will also be flac streamed. That should give it far more publicity and let
people have more advance warning to prepare.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa...o/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

In article , Iain Churches
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian Gaff
scribeth thus
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the stuff on
the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to actually use
it long term for anything.
Brian


It does seem to be in the lets try and see how we get on and if theres
enough interest then we might make it permanently available.

It's probably more to do with the way the BBC works and various
departments get funded than owt else;!..
--
Tony Sayer


Which is a very good reason to give positive feedback.

Iain



Dun .. the other week when it kicked off:)...
--
Tony Sayer

BBC FLAC trail this evening
 

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain Churches
scribeth thus

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article , Brian Gaff
scribeth thus
I don't quite get the point of this, as if you really believe the stuff
on
the site, it seems totally pointless if they have no plans to actually
use
it long term for anything.
Brian


It does seem to be in the lets try and see how we get on and if theres
enough interest then we might make it permanently available.

It's probably more to do with the way the BBC works and various
departments get funded than owt else;!..
--
Tony Sayer


Which is a very good reason to give positive feedback.

Iain



Dun .. the other week when it kicked off:)...
--
Excellent. We British tend to vote with our feet:-)
With positive feedback it looks as if something
very worthwhile can be achieved.

Iain