Don Pearce wrote:

---------------------



Ears are pressure transducers. This means that the ear drum almost
doesn't move when sound hits.



** That is a non sequitur.

Ignoring proximity effect, diaphragms of omnidirectional (ie pressure) mics move the same amount as those of cardioids when exposed to the same sound. The cardioid has to be pointed at the source to get max output.

If the mic is a dynamic, excursion is inversely proportional to frequency cos output depends only on voice coil velocity.

If it is a condenser type, excursion is independent of frequency cos output depends only on diaphragm displacement.




A blast of air from a pop has very
little pressure, but a lot of velocity.

** But is not a sound at all.

See my other post in this thread.


..... Phil

Brian Gaff wrote:

------------------------


OK then, I was under the impression that directivity was due to phase of
the wavefronts on both sides of a diaphragm.


** Correct.

A cardioid mic has openings that make the amplitude and phase of a sound the same on both sides of the diaphragm when arriving from the rear - resulting in no output. If the sound source moves to one side, a significant imbalance rises and the diaphragm moves accordingly.

A figure 8 mic has a null for sounds arriving at right angles to the diaphragm for the same reason.


...... Phil

Well, I still find that recordings of orchestras with a pair of mikes sounds
more realistic. However in other situations, as some instruments are quiet
compared to others, I can see why they need close miking.

Also of course there is the background noise whether it be audio in a venue
or just hiss.
I have heard some awful Piano recordings where the his plays along as if a
noise gate is being used at a low level. Church organ recordings are often
very audio noisy, as one cannot move a church away from traffic and
sometimes the pump can be heard and with dodgy microphone placement the
chuffing noises are out of proportion to the notes.. Also of course both
piano and Organs have huge dynamic ranges.
With more popular recordings one obviously uses some compression. Some are
bad and you can hear it, others more sane and nice sounding!


However even some pop recordings from eh past made by emi, seem to have a
lot of problems with the pop effect, which were no obvious back in the day
on a scratchy 45!
Brian

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"Iain" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 10 August 2017 13:22:52 UTC+3, Brian Gaff wrote:

No I don't mean going back to a close miked up every single instrument
and
a mixer you need to be Twizzle to operate.
Brian

With the exception of classical, and some jazz recordings, close mic is and
has been for many years, standard practice. One also adds "air mics" in a
pair or Decca tree. So on a multitrack recording, 48 channels, each
recorded close mic is by no means unusual.

Iain

On Friday, 11 August 2017 10:28:15 UTC+3, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well, I still find that recordings of orchestras with a pair of mikes sounds
more realistic. However in other situations, as some instruments are quiet
compared to others, I can see why they need close miking.

For orchestral realism, a pair, or tree is very good. The internal balance has to be right, but that's the responsibility of the conductor, A solo piano or harpsichord needs a spot mic to bring it into focus.

Multi microphone technique is particularly useful if you want a band recording with punch and presence. I can't imagine Thad Jones/Mel Lewis recorded with a pair of mics :-)))

Iain

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 08:28:10 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Well, I still find that recordings of orchestras with a pair of mikes sounds
more realistic. However in other situations, as some instruments are quiet
compared to others, I can see why they need close miking.

Also of course there is the background noise whether it be audio in a venue
or just hiss.
I have heard some awful Piano recordings where the his plays along as if a
noise gate is being used at a low level. Church organ recordings are often
very audio noisy, as one cannot move a church away from traffic and
sometimes the pump can be heard and with dodgy microphone placement the
chuffing noises are out of proportion to the notes.. Also of course both
piano and Organs have huge dynamic ranges.
With more popular recordings one obviously uses some compression. Some are
bad and you can hear it, others more sane and nice sounding!


However even some pop recordings from eh past made by emi, seem to have a
lot of problems with the pop effect, which were no obvious back in the day
on a scratchy 45!
Brian

Try this. This me in my local church, which is closed for refurb. Just
a pair of mics stood in the nave. Sorry about the playing - I
completely screw the timing at one point (I blame Claire who was
turning pages for me).

Anyway, this is totally raw - no compression or anything.

https://soundcloud.com/donpearce/widor-toccata

d

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Don Pearce wrote:

----------------------


Try this. This me in my local church, which is closed for refurb. Just
a pair of mics stood in the nave. Sorry about the playing - I
completely screw the timing at one point (I blame Claire who was
turning pages for me).

Anyway, this is totally raw - no compression or anything.

https://soundcloud.com/donpearce/widor-toccata



** Wow - Don can really play !!!!

Plus a rather nice recoding of a sweet sounding instrument.

Please tell us something about it - Don.

The Bach T&F is well worth a listen too.

Talk about " hiding your light under a bushel " !!




..... Phil

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 02:15:30 -0700 (PDT), Phil Allison
wrote:

Don Pearce wrote:

----------------------


Try this. This me in my local church, which is closed for refurb. Just
a pair of mics stood in the nave. Sorry about the playing - I
completely screw the timing at one point (I blame Claire who was
turning pages for me).

Anyway, this is totally raw - no compression or anything.

https://soundcloud.com/donpearce/widor-toccata



** Wow - Don can really play !!!!

Plus a rather nice recoding of a sweet sounding instrument.

Please tell us something about it - Don.

The Bach T&F is well worth a listen too.

Talk about " hiding your light under a bushel " !!



Thanks...

Kind of a bog standard three manual church organ from the late
Victorian period. It had its manual bellows replaced by a motor in the
early fifties, so I never got to play it hand-cranked. But they did
know how to make nice instruments around the 1880s. I think it got
tuned up and serviced about five years ago.

Vox Humana and Diapason are its strong voices and I used both on these
recordings.

The recording was made with a pair of Rode NT1-A cardioids in a rough
ORTF arrangement.

d

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Don Pearce wrote:

-------------------------



Try this. This me in my local church, which is closed for refurb. Just
a pair of mics stood in the nave. Sorry about the playing - I
completely screw the timing at one point (I blame Claire who was
turning pages for me).

Anyway, this is totally raw - no compression or anything.

https://soundcloud.com/donpearce/widor-toccata



** Wow - Don can really play !!!!

Plus a rather nice recoding of a sweet sounding instrument.

Please tell us something about it - Don.

The Bach T&F is well worth a listen too.

Talk about " hiding your light under a bushel " !!



Thanks...

Kind of a bog standard three manual church organ from the late
Victorian period. It had its manual bellows replaced by a motor in the
early fifties, so I never got to play it hand-cranked. But they did
know how to make nice instruments around the 1880s. I think it got
tuned up and serviced about five years ago.

Vox Humana and Diapason are its strong voices and I used both on these
recordings.


** Must sound spectacular live in the actual church.


The recording was made with a pair of Rode NT1-A cardioids in a rough
ORTF arrangement.



** Good Aussie built mics used cleverly !!

OFTF is a variation on the famous "Blumlein pair" method which gives natural sounding ambience to a recording.

Even on my PC speakers, the "sound" of the church was obvious.

Nice going.



...... Phil

On 11/08/2017 10:00, Don Pearce wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 08:28:10 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
wrote:

Well, I still find that recordings of orchestras with a pair of mikes sounds
more realistic. However in other situations, as some instruments are quiet
compared to others, I can see why they need close miking.

Also of course there is the background noise whether it be audio in a venue
or just hiss.
I have heard some awful Piano recordings where the his plays along as if a
noise gate is being used at a low level. Church organ recordings are often
very audio noisy, as one cannot move a church away from traffic and
sometimes the pump can be heard and with dodgy microphone placement the
chuffing noises are out of proportion to the notes.. Also of course both
piano and Organs have huge dynamic ranges.
With more popular recordings one obviously uses some compression. Some are
bad and you can hear it, others more sane and nice sounding!


However even some pop recordings from eh past made by emi, seem to have a
lot of problems with the pop effect, which were no obvious back in the day
on a scratchy 45!
Brian

Try this. This me in my local church, which is closed for refurb. Just
a pair of mics stood in the nave. Sorry about the playing - I
completely screw the timing at one point (I blame Claire who was
turning pages for me).

Anyway, this is totally raw - no compression or anything.

https://soundcloud.com/donpearce/widor-toccata


Impressive!

--
Cheers, Rob

In article , Phil
Allison scribeth thus
Don Pearce wrote:

-------------------------



Try this. This me in my local church, which is closed for refurb. Just
a pair of mics stood in the nave. Sorry about the playing - I
completely screw the timing at one point (I blame Claire who was
turning pages for me).

Anyway, this is totally raw - no compression or anything.

https://soundcloud.com/donpearce/widor-toccata



** Wow - Don can really play !!!!

Plus a rather nice recoding of a sweet sounding instrument.

Please tell us something about it - Don.

The Bach T&F is well worth a listen too.

Talk about " hiding your light under a bushel " !!



Thanks...

Kind of a bog standard three manual church organ from the late
Victorian period. It had its manual bellows replaced by a motor in the
early fifties, so I never got to play it hand-cranked. But they did
know how to make nice instruments around the 1880s. I think it got
tuned up and serviced about five years ago.

Vox Humana and Diapason are its strong voices and I used both on these
recordings.


** Must sound spectacular live in the actual church.


The recording was made with a pair of Rode NT1-A cardioids in a rough
ORTF arrangement.



** Good Aussie built mics used cleverly !!

OFTF is a variation on the famous "Blumlein pair" method which gives natural
sounding ambience to a recording.

Even on my PC speakers, the "sound" of the church was obvious.

Nice going.



..... Phil


Couldn't agree more a very nice "light" sound to it and yes, those
simple mic arrangements sometimes cam be excellent, sounds fine here on
the Quads

Used to do this sort of thing many years ago wife was in the Long
Melford choral society, pub first practice or performance second! OK
there were a few errors but with simple mic arrangements was this very
real "there" sound, still got the tapes done on a high speed Revox.

As the Widor remember one day was at Ely Cathedral and there was an
excellent rendition of this work someone just having a practice in the
middle of the afternoon. Just after it fished there was a slip of a girl
can't have been much more that around 12 or so years old just asked her
was it you playing she nodded, seemed in a way that she was just too
young! but she was real fan of his and one of his French contemporaries
Henri Mulet who it seems still undiscovered a very talented girl and
knowledgeable too.


--
Tony Sayer