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Some CED/DVD writers are better than others



 
 
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old January 3rd 18, 02:16 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Brian Gaff
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Posts: 637
Default Some CED/DVD writers are better than others

I have a relatively new computer which has two brand new cd/dvd writers in
it. Neither of them seem to be able to produce universally readable standard
CD recordings. Many cd decks give up when looking at them, but a DVD or an
el cheapo cd player from tesco read them fine, as do many in car units.
These are standard, not mp3 cds.
Now on a machine upstairs I have an almost identical recorder, a previous
version which will make good ccd copies. is the issue likely to be the
hardware or something weird about the machine down here?
For the life of me I cannot think of a reason for it not to be just
hardware, so I'm tempted to do a swap over, assuming windows 7 can find
drivers for the older drive as the old machine is xp and quite slow in
comparison.

Any thoughts?
Brian

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old January 3rd 18, 02:35 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Jim Lesurf[_2_]
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Posts: 2,668
Default Some CED/DVD writers are better than others

Standard CDs are not CDRs are not CDRWs. Nor are all CDRs the same. Nor all
CDRWs. They differ in various ways. Similarly computer drives -
particularly writers - aren't the same as old standard audio CD drives.
Drives and their control software also vary.

Hence it is a lottery.

Jim


In article , Brian Gaff
wrote:
I have a relatively new computer which has two brand new cd/dvd writers
in it. Neither of them seem to be able to produce universally readable
standard CD recordings. Many cd decks give up when looking at them, but
a DVD or an el cheapo cd player from tesco read them fine, as do many in
car units. These are standard, not mp3 cds. Now on a machine upstairs I
have an almost identical recorder, a previous version which will make
good ccd copies. is the issue likely to be the hardware or something
weird about the machine down here? For the life of me I cannot think of
a reason for it not to be just hardware, so I'm tempted to do a swap
over, assuming windows 7 can find drivers for the older drive as the
old machine is xp and quite slow in comparison.


Any thoughts? Brian


--
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old January 3rd 18, 04:03 PM posted to uk.rec.audio
Johnny B Good
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 65
Default Some CED/DVD writers are better than others

On Wed, 03 Jan 2018 15:16:04 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I have a relatively new computer which has two brand new cd/dvd writers
in it. Neither of them seem to be able to produce universally readable
standard CD recordings. Many cd decks give up when looking at them, but
a DVD or an el cheapo cd player from tesco read them fine, as do many in
car units. These are standard, not mp3 cds.
Now on a machine upstairs I have an almost identical recorder, a
previous
version which will make good ccd copies. is the issue likely to be the
hardware or something weird about the machine down here?
For the life of me I cannot think of a reason for it not to be just
hardware, so I'm tempted to do a swap over, assuming windows 7 can find
drivers for the older drive as the old machine is xp and quite slow in
comparison.

Try burning at just under half the MAX speed rating of the writer (or
the limit of the media if it's less than this). This will force the
writer to write at CLV speed and, therefore, with a fixed laser beam
intensity, eliminating the jump steps of contrast in the final recording
when CAV mode is used during the first part of the MAX speed writing
cycle, which seems to be the main cause of the problems encountered when
playing such CDs on audio CD players.

--
Johnny B Good
  #5 (permalink)  
Old January 4th 18, 07:58 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Brian Gaff
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Posts: 637
Default Some CED/DVD writers are better than others

Yes already tried speeds as low as 24 or 16 since default is 52, with no
discernable differences to the outcome.
The usual failure mode seems to be
Cannot read toc so gives up with an error when first inserted or will play
from end to end but selecting tracks or manually skipping to tracks fails to
find the start and it givens up or hunts for ever depending on the cd player
design.

My thought was that its simply perhaps not writing a wide enough track to be
perceived on the toc or other vital parts.

Brian

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This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
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Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 03 Jan 2018 15:16:04 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I have a relatively new computer which has two brand new cd/dvd writers
in it. Neither of them seem to be able to produce universally readable
standard CD recordings. Many cd decks give up when looking at them, but
a DVD or an el cheapo cd player from tesco read them fine, as do many in
car units. These are standard, not mp3 cds.
Now on a machine upstairs I have an almost identical recorder, a
previous
version which will make good ccd copies. is the issue likely to be the
hardware or something weird about the machine down here?
For the life of me I cannot think of a reason for it not to be just
hardware, so I'm tempted to do a swap over, assuming windows 7 can find
drivers for the older drive as the old machine is xp and quite slow in
comparison.

Try burning at just under half the MAX speed rating of the writer (or
the limit of the media if it's less than this). This will force the
writer to write at CLV speed and, therefore, with a fixed laser beam
intensity, eliminating the jump steps of contrast in the final recording
when CAV mode is used during the first part of the MAX speed writing
cycle, which seems to be the main cause of the problems encountered when
playing such CDs on audio CD players.

--
Johnny B Good



  #6 (permalink)  
Old January 4th 18, 07:59 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 637
Default Some CED/DVD writers are better than others

PS, Use disc at once as it used to be called to get rid on gaps obviously.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 03 Jan 2018 15:16:04 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I have a relatively new computer which has two brand new cd/dvd writers
in it. Neither of them seem to be able to produce universally readable
standard CD recordings. Many cd decks give up when looking at them, but
a DVD or an el cheapo cd player from tesco read them fine, as do many in
car units. These are standard, not mp3 cds.
Now on a machine upstairs I have an almost identical recorder, a
previous
version which will make good ccd copies. is the issue likely to be the
hardware or something weird about the machine down here?
For the life of me I cannot think of a reason for it not to be just
hardware, so I'm tempted to do a swap over, assuming windows 7 can find
drivers for the older drive as the old machine is xp and quite slow in
comparison.

Try burning at just under half the MAX speed rating of the writer (or
the limit of the media if it's less than this). This will force the
writer to write at CLV speed and, therefore, with a fixed laser beam
intensity, eliminating the jump steps of contrast in the final recording
when CAV mode is used during the first part of the MAX speed writing
cycle, which seems to be the main cause of the problems encountered when
playing such CDs on audio CD players.

--
Johnny B Good



  #7 (permalink)  
Old January 4th 18, 10:28 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Woody[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 145
Default Some CED/DVD writers are better than others

If you are burning at a slow rate - 24 times or less - turn the hard
disc caching off as well, let it burn on the fly. I've never had any
issues doing it that way.


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
PS, Use disc at once as it used to be called to get rid on gaps
obviously.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Johnny B Good" wrote in
message ...
On Wed, 03 Jan 2018 15:16:04 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I have a relatively new computer which has two brand new cd/dvd
writers
in it. Neither of them seem to be able to produce universally
readable
standard CD recordings. Many cd decks give up when looking at
them, but
a DVD or an el cheapo cd player from tesco read them fine, as do
many in
car units. These are standard, not mp3 cds.
Now on a machine upstairs I have an almost identical recorder, a
previous
version which will make good ccd copies. is the issue likely to be
the
hardware or something weird about the machine down here?
For the life of me I cannot think of a reason for it not to be
just
hardware, so I'm tempted to do a swap over, assuming windows 7 can
find
drivers for the older drive as the old machine is xp and quite
slow in
comparison.

Try burning at just under half the MAX speed rating of the writer
(or
the limit of the media if it's less than this). This will force the
writer to write at CLV speed and, therefore, with a fixed laser
beam
intensity, eliminating the jump steps of contrast in the final
recording
when CAV mode is used during the first part of the MAX speed
writing
cycle, which seems to be the main cause of the problems encountered
when
playing such CDs on audio CD players.

--
Johnny B Good





  #8 (permalink)  
Old January 5th 18, 07:22 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Brian Gaff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 637
Default Some CED/DVD writers are better than others

I'm not using anything but the program Ive always used and that has no
option about caching. Its got something to do with the drive itself is all I
can say just now.
its called cdburner XP but it is meant for 7 and 10 as well. The drive in
the machine is ssd in any case so there is hardly any caching going on.

its almost as if the track is too narrow inaccurate or not burned enough, ie
S/N is rubbish particularly on the toc.
If it plays on cheap rubbish players an dvds but not bespoke cd players
its seems crazy. This is where somebody needs to have a magnified look at
the burn I'd imagine, to see what is different. Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Woody" wrote in message
news
If you are burning at a slow rate - 24 times or less - turn the hard disc
caching off as well, let it burn on the fly. I've never had any issues
doing it that way.


"Brian Gaff" wrote in message
news
PS, Use disc at once as it used to be called to get rid on gaps
obviously.
Brian

--
----- -
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...

Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Johnny B Good" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 03 Jan 2018 15:16:04 +0000, Brian Gaff wrote:

I have a relatively new computer which has two brand new cd/dvd
writers
in it. Neither of them seem to be able to produce universally readable
standard CD recordings. Many cd decks give up when looking at them, but
a DVD or an el cheapo cd player from tesco read them fine, as do many
in
car units. These are standard, not mp3 cds.
Now on a machine upstairs I have an almost identical recorder, a
previous
version which will make good ccd copies. is the issue likely to be the
hardware or something weird about the machine down here?
For the life of me I cannot think of a reason for it not to be just
hardware, so I'm tempted to do a swap over, assuming windows 7 can find
drivers for the older drive as the old machine is xp and quite slow in
comparison.

Try burning at just under half the MAX speed rating of the writer (or
the limit of the media if it's less than this). This will force the
writer to write at CLV speed and, therefore, with a fixed laser beam
intensity, eliminating the jump steps of contrast in the final recording
when CAV mode is used during the first part of the MAX speed writing
cycle, which seems to be the main cause of the problems encountered when
playing such CDs on audio CD players.

--
Johnny B Good







  #9 (permalink)  
Old February 3rd 18, 10:59 AM posted to uk.rec.audio
Iain[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 121
Default Some CED/DVD writers are better than others

keskiviikko 3. tammikuuta 2018 17.16.08 UTC+2 Brian Gaff kirjoitti:
I have a relatively new computer which has two brand new cd/dvd writers in
it. Neither of them seem to be able to produce universally readable standard
CD recordings. Many cd decks give up when looking at them, but a DVD or an
el cheapo cd player from tesco read them fine, as do many in car units.
These are standard, not mp3 cds.
Now on a machine upstairs I have an almost identical recorder, a previous
version which will make good ccd copies. is the issue likely to be the
hardware or something weird about the machine down here?
For the life of me I cannot think of a reason for it not to be just
hardware, so I'm tempted to do a swap over, assuming windows 7 can find
drivers for the older drive as the old machine is xp and quite slow in
comparison.

Any thoughts?
Brian

You are right. All CD-R burners are not born equal, but the same can also be said of CD-R blank media and also CD players, so to find a reliable combination of all three is not always easy.
People often confuse CD and CD-R. Even though the discs look similar, the data on them is put there in a totally different way, although they end result looks the same to a CD player. Commercial CDs are “stamped” from a glass master in a single action, in an injection molding machine, while CD-R's are written, by a laser which follows a pre-groove and writes in a dye developed by Taiyo Yuden. CD blanks are not sold retail, but CD-R blanks are made by a large number of manufacturers and widely available. Some players seem to have problems with CD-RW. Interesting that the terms “father, mother, matrix and stamper” used in the vinyl days have been carried over to CD manufacture.
Companies which offer CD-R reprocation seem to favour CD-R blanks made by Taiyo Yuden. The best blanks (I am told) have silver, gold or light green dyes, and the CD-R writer laser is adjusted to suit the blank being used. It seems that the brighter the reflective layer the better chance a CD player has of being able to read it.
CD-s proper are manufactured in clean-room conditions, and have a brighter reflective surface.
I make more that 1 000 CD-Rs a year, concerts , rehearsal CD's for bands and orchestras, archive recordings of theatre groups, etc etc. I used to use a desktop PC with three CD-R writers, but found this slow and not very reliable. The method I use now offers almost 100% reliability. (One “suspect” CD-R returned last year. It played perfectly.
My method is as follows:
I write a physical CD master in real-time to a Tascam CD-RW 900/II recorder, which stands on a 50x50cm paving stone, with a cast concrete slab on top of it to eliminate vibration. When the Tascam is writing, I listen on headphones, and sit with remote in hand in my chair, with the door locked. I then title the CD, name the tracks and finalise. Next, I then play the CD back, and listen carefully start to finish on vintage Studer A730 CD player, which still has the original lens. Its a pretty “selective” player, so if my master plays, then I feel I am on safe ground.
For reprocation, I have a tower system, with 21 trays. It can copy from files on an internal hard disc, from USB stick or memory card. I choose to use a physical master (CD) as these are easy to archive and cannot be overwritten. I use Taiyo Yuden Silver discs with white printable surface, available in packs of ten or on spindles of 100 pcs. As a reserve, I keep a supply of Verbatim discs which have also proved to be reliable.
I put the physical master into the top tray, and select “Check”. The system verifies the integrity of the master. Only then am I ready to start to make copies (or rather clones:-)
The system can write at 52x, but I choose a much lower speed x16 which writes a full music CD 5 minutes. After writing, the system verifies each disc, and so is turning out 21 discs at seven minute intervals. I have two colour inkjet printers which print the label info direct onto the discs when they are ejected from the trays, so the tower is producing CD's faster than I can print the label info.
The secret to producing reliable CD-Rs seems to be to use high grade blanks, write at a slow speed, and be sure the system is not subject to vibration when writing.

Iain
 




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