Speaker unit to baffle.
 

torstai 12. huhtikuuta 2018 2.16.09 UTC+3 Dave Plowman (News) kirjoitti:

Interesting point. I've never worked in radio, and dunno if the designers
made use of any of the facilities there. Apart from getting high quality
recordings of whatever they wanted, of course. The departments who
designed these speakers were both based well away from the studio centres.
I don't remember any prototype speakers doing the rounds in TV.

By that time commercial radio was well established so there would
have been plenty of choice if a speaker manufacturer wanted to set
up trials in a radio facility.

Traditionally, loudspeaker manufacturers had close connections with
record companies and independent music studios, so there would have been
no shortage of top notch facilities with trained ears.

In addition, speakers manufacturers had close ties with academic
institutions. The Arthur Radford/Dr Arthur Bailey/
Surrey University/Decca Record Company think-tank is a good example.

Before the LS3/5a appeared, there was a speaker made by Bowers and Wilkins,
the DM2 IIRC, which was used widely in studios as a domestic reference
speaker, and also in smaller listening rooms and editing facilities. Many
expected that this would be chosen by the BBC. It might have been a better
option:-)

Iain

Speaker unit to baffle.
 

torstai 12. huhtikuuta 2018 14.20.59 UTC+3 tony sayer kirjoitti:

They would not have used the 5A's for recording music in a studio the
5/8 was more the one for that. 5A was for OB vans and the like thats
what it was designed for!.


So there *was* a version for music (the 5/8) ?? That's very interesting.
Were the cabinet dimensions the same as the LS3/5a? Was it on sale to
the public? It would be very interesting to audition.

Strange that Dave didn't mention it:-)

The Lockwood Major was designed as a music speaker *for* (but not *by*)
the BBC, who were not granted exclusive rights to its use.
The LM earned a great reputation as a high power music recording speaker
in studios everywhere. It was commonly paired with the Crown DC 300 amp. A formidable partnership!


Iain

Speaker unit to baffle.
 

In article , Iain
scribeth thus
torstai 12. huhtikuuta 2018 14.20.59 UTC+3 tony sayer kirjoitti:

They would not have used the 5A's for recording music in a studio the
5/8 was more the one for that. 5A was for OB vans and the like thats
what it was designed for!.


So there *was* a version for music (the 5/8) ?? That's very interesting.
Were the cabinet dimensions the same as the LS3/5a? Was it on sale to
the public? It would be very interesting to audition.

See below..


Strange that Dave didn't mention it:-)

The Lockwood Major was designed as a music speaker *for* (but not *by*)
the BBC, who were not granted exclusive rights to its use.
The LM earned a great reputation as a high power music recording speaker
in studios everywhere. It was commonly paired with the Crown DC 300 amp. A
formidable partnership!


Iain


Yes formidable old unit they were, used to have the 15 inch Golds here
many years ago now;!..

Interesting reading tho the second reference isn't intended for persons
of a fragile Aussie disposition;!..

https://www.markhennessy.co.uk/rogers/ls58.htm

http://www.g4dcv.co.uk/ls35a/ls35a.html
--
Tony Sayer

Speaker unit to baffle.
 

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
In article , Iain
scribeth thus
torstai 12. huhtikuuta 2018 14.20.59 UTC+3 tony sayer kirjoitti:

They would not have used the 5A's for recording music in a studio the
5/8 was more the one for that. 5A was for OB vans and the like thats
what it was designed for!.


So there *was* a version for music (the 5/8) ?? That's very interesting.
Were the cabinet dimensions the same as the LS3/5a? Was it on sale to
the public? It would be very interesting to audition.

Lots of confusion there. Probably not understanding BBC numbering
convention.

LS3/* is generally a speaker originally designed for OB etc use. LS5/*
generally for studio monitoring where size doesn't matter and the very
best performance needed. They also tended to come from two different BBC
departments. Design and Research.

See below..


Strange that Dave didn't mention it:-)

Why would I mention something which isn't true?


The Lockwood Major was designed as a music speaker *for* (but not *by*)
the BBC, who were not granted exclusive rights to its use.

Lockwood was a furniture maker. Who at one time supplied much of the
custom made woodwork for BBC studios - things like console frames. IIRC,
they also made the cabinets for the BBC LSU10 from the 50s. And decided to
branch out into making their own speaker cabinet, fitted with Tannoy
drivers. The LSU10 used a dual concentric Parmeko unit which was only good
to about 10 khz. Having been designed before FM radio. Fitting a Tannoy
unit and a more powerful amp was a common mod. But it was a massive
speaker, and Lockwood saw a market for somewhat smaller Tannoy based unit.


The LM earned a great reputation as a high power music recording
speaker in studios everywhere. It was commonly paired with the Crown
DC 300 amp. A formidable partnership!

Yes - high power being the prime attribute. Hence it never being used in a
GP studio. As it wasn't good at speech etc for drama use. Like all Tannoy
dual concentric drivers.

Ian, you seem incapable of realising all TV studios are general purpose.
Might be used for music of any type one day and drama or even current
affairs the next. So need monitoring that makes a fair fist of all types
of programme sound.


Iain


Yes formidable old unit they were, used to have the 15 inch Golds here
many years ago now;!..

Interesting reading tho the second reference isn't intended for persons
of a fragile Aussie disposition;!..

https://www.markhennessy.co.uk/rogers/ls58.htm

http://www.g4dcv.co.uk/ls35a/ls35a.html

--
*The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Speaker unit to baffle.
 

torstai 12. huhtikuuta 2018 2.40.03 UTC+3 Trevor Wilson kirjoitti:

**The NEAR drivers are unique and are what makes the speakers so
brilliant. They are also subject to a number of patents (which may, or
may not have run out). The KEF B110 driver, by comparison, is a very
simple thing to duplicate. Here's one NEAR patent:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5335287

NEAR still appear to be in business, and have found themselves an
interesting niche market in building speakers and amplifiers for
outdoor use, not festivals but gardens.

http://www.nearspeakers.com/

They seem to be part of the Bogen Group, which built very good mulitrack
tape heads back in the day.

Perhaps, as the speaker which Trevor recommends, is no longer in
production, this would be a good opportunity for some entrepreneur to
acquire the design and the tooling, and start to build this speaker again
on a license or royalty basis.

There is always room in this world for another good loudsspeaker:-)

Iain

Speaker unit to baffle.
 

perjantai 13. huhtikuuta 2018 2.22.30 UTC+3 tony sayer kirjoitti:
In article , Iain
scribeth thus
torstai 12. huhtikuuta 2018 14.20.59 UTC+3 tony sayer kirjoitti:

They would not have used the 5A's for recording music in a studio the
5/8 was more the one for that. 5A was for OB vans and the like thats
what it was designed for!.


So there *was* a version for music (the 5/8) ?? That's very interesting.
Were the cabinet dimensions the same as the LS3/5a? Was it on sale to
the public? It would be very interesting to audition.

See below..

Thanks. Most interesting. This article answered another question I
was going to ask you about Chinese copies, badged "Rodgers"(sic)

There is also, I am told a Chinese copy of the Coles 4038 ribbon mic, and
a colleague of mine has a quasi-PPM meter - a copy of the type built by Ernest Turner, Sifam etc, and used by the BBC. It looks to be the real McCoy, but however hard you drive it, it only goes up to 5 :-))

The Lockwood Major was designed as a music speaker *for* (but not *by*)
the BBC, .......

Yes formidable old unit they were, used to have the 15 inch Golds here
many years ago now;!..

A pal of mine in S.Africa has a pair of Lockwood Majors bought from new.
The cabinets have the original Lockwood coffin handles and casters. He jokes that they are otherwise maintenance-free, but one needs to change the sand ballast every 10 000 hrs!

Iain

Speaker unit to baffle.
 

On 12/04/2018 8:14 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Given a company in the UK like Falcon - pretty small - has gone to the
bother of having things like the B110 and so on re-manufactured, and can
do complete kits to make your own 3/5a, wonder why they've not bothered
to re-manufacture this wonderful (and inexpensive) speaker of yours? If
it really is that good, would be a winner.

To be fair you have to consider that the B110 has been used in countless
designs over the year, far from just the LS3/5A. I could probably name at
least a dozen off the top of my head. Also, I'm pretty sure that at least
one of the people involved in Falcon was ex KEF.

All true.

But given Mr Wilson's insistence on how wonderful the NEAR was, it smacks
of some form of conspiracy to suppress it.


**Don't be silly. The (true) hi fi industry is a minuscule part of the
audio business, which makes it a minuscule part of a small part of the
world's economy. NEAR drivers are (slightly) more expensive to
manufacture than regular drivers and, presumably, the bean counters saw
these facts and ceased production. Nothing more sinister than what
accountants do every day of the week - suck the joy out of life.

Make no mistake: Come the revolution, the lawyers and accountants will
be the first ones lined up against the wall.

:-)

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Speaker unit to baffle.
 

In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 12/04/2018 8:14 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Given a company in the UK like Falcon - pretty small - has gone to
the bother of having things like the B110 and so on re-manufactured,
and can do complete kits to make your own 3/5a, wonder why they've
not bothered to re-manufacture this wonderful (and inexpensive)
speaker of yours? If it really is that good, would be a winner.

To be fair you have to consider that the B110 has been used in
countless designs over the year, far from just the LS3/5A. I could
probably name at least a dozen off the top of my head. Also, I'm
pretty sure that at least one of the people involved in Falcon was ex
KEF.

All true.

But given Mr Wilson's insistence on how wonderful the NEAR was, it
smacks of some form of conspiracy to suppress it.


**Don't be silly. The (true) hi fi industry is a minuscule part of the
audio business, which makes it a minuscule part of a small part of the
world's economy. NEAR drivers are (slightly) more expensive to
manufacture than regular drivers and, presumably, the bean counters saw
these facts and ceased production. Nothing more sinister than what
accountants do every day of the week - suck the joy out of life.


I just find it odd that a speaker you consider the finest for its size and
unsurpassed since didn't sell by the million making a fortune for its
maker.

Make no mistake: Come the revolution, the lawyers and accountants will
be the first ones lined up against the wall.

:-)

--
*Go the extra mile. It makes your boss look like an incompetent slacker *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Speaker unit to baffle.
 

On 14/04/2018 9:15 AM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
On 12/04/2018 8:14 PM, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Bob Latham wrote:
In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

Given a company in the UK like Falcon - pretty small - has gone to
the bother of having things like the B110 and so on re-manufactured,
and can do complete kits to make your own 3/5a, wonder why they've
not bothered to re-manufacture this wonderful (and inexpensive)
speaker of yours? If it really is that good, would be a winner.

To be fair you have to consider that the B110 has been used in
countless designs over the year, far from just the LS3/5A. I could
probably name at least a dozen off the top of my head. Also, I'm
pretty sure that at least one of the people involved in Falcon was ex
KEF.

All true.

But given Mr Wilson's insistence on how wonderful the NEAR was, it
smacks of some form of conspiracy to suppress it.


**Don't be silly. The (true) hi fi industry is a minuscule part of the
audio business, which makes it a minuscule part of a small part of the
world's economy. NEAR drivers are (slightly) more expensive to
manufacture than regular drivers and, presumably, the bean counters saw
these facts and ceased production. Nothing more sinister than what
accountants do every day of the week - suck the joy out of life.


I just find it odd that a speaker you consider the finest for its size and
unsurpassed since didn't sell by the million making a fortune for its
maker.

**Hang on a sec. I said nothing of the kind. This is the second time in
this thread that you have made statements that you ascribe to me, that I
never said.

Let me be as clear as I can possibly be (pay close attention and do not
make silly assumptions):

The LS3/5a was, at it's inception, a decent enough speaker. In 2018, it
is WAY, WAY behind many speakers in it's (stupidly high) price range. By
1993-ish, when I first heard the NEAR 10M, the NEAR 10M was a MUCH
better speaker, in every meaningful metric and far less expensive. That
was 25 years ago.

I have heard a number of speakers that are significantly better than the
NEAR 10M (and 10M-II) since. I have not heard one that can best the NEAR
10M at what I would estimate its 2018 price to be (US$750.00).


I will re-state: There are significantly better speakers available, in
the NEAR 10Ms size range.

Clear?

What me to re-state?

Or will you continue to make absurd statements that you ascribe to me?


Make no mistake: Come the revolution, the lawyers and accountants will
be the first ones lined up against the wall.

:-)



--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Speaker unit to baffle.
 

In article ,
Trevor Wilson wrote:
I just find it odd that a speaker you consider the finest for its size and
unsurpassed since didn't sell by the million making a fortune for its
maker.

**Hang on a sec. I said nothing of the kind. This is the second time in
this thread that you have made statements that you ascribe to me, that I
never said.

Let me be as clear as I can possibly be (pay close attention and do not
make silly assumptions):

The LS3/5a was, at it's inception, a decent enough speaker.

Then why didn't you say so at the start?

Let me quote your first post on the subject:-

****************

From: Trevor Wilson
Subject: Speaker unit to baffle.
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2018 01:35
Newsgroups: uk.rec.audio

**The LS3/5a is the most over-rated piece of junk ever to be foisted on
the audio industry. It's continued existence is adequate evidence that
most listeners believe what some reviewers say, rather than listening
for themselves.

Don't get me started on LS3/5a speakers. And don't tell me how the BBC
designed them. The idiot who designed them should be shot.

*****************

So I take it you're now retracting most of that?




In 2018, it
is WAY, WAY behind many speakers in it's (stupidly high) price range. By
1993-ish, when I first heard the NEAR 10M, the NEAR 10M was a MUCH
better speaker, in every meaningful metric and far less expensive. That
was 25 years ago.

But apparently by its lack of popularity likely just your opinion. A small
high quality speaker is the holy grail for many. No matter where it's
made.

I have heard a number of speakers that are significantly better than the
NEAR 10M (and 10M-II) since. I have not heard one that can best the NEAR
10M at what I would estimate its 2018 price to be (US$750.00).

Thing is, if you come out with outrageous comments about what was (and
still is) a well regarded speaker, why do you expect people to believe
your opinion on any?


I will re-state: There are significantly better speakers available, in
the NEAR 10Ms size range.

Clear?

What me to re-state?

Or will you continue to make absurd statements that you ascribe to me?

Are you claiming you didn't make the statement I've quoted above?


Make no mistake: Come the revolution, the lawyers and accountants will
be the first ones lined up against the wall.


--
*Why don't sheep shrink when it rains?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.