"Keith G" wrote in message
...
"Trevor Wilson" wrote
Additionally, if the input is sublimely perfect, any amp which
distorts, will ruin the goodness.
Sublimely perfect input??? Got any?
**Several.
You do?
**Yes.
What are they?
**You're joking, right? The list is too long to mention here.
Got an amp which *doesn't* distort?? Not at all???
**Several. None of which exhibit any AUDIBLE distortions. More to the
point: Do YOU have any amplifiers which exhibit no audible distortions,
when used with real-life loudspeakers?
None of my amps disort audibly that I or anyone else here can detect.
**Really? Can you provide your measurements to validate that fact? Here's a
few figures which your amps would need to meet, in order to provide
inaudible levels of distortion:
Frequency response: 20Hz - 20kHz (at, say, 1/3rd full power) +/- 0.1dB,
when operating into a real-world loudspeaker.
Phase error: 20Hz - 20kHz - +/- 5 degrees, when operating into a real-world
loudspeaker.
Output impedance: Lower than 0.1 Ohm, from 20Hz - 20kHz (BTW: This is where
many run-of-the-mill SS amps fail)
THD: Less than 0.1% from 20Hz - 20kHz, at (say) 1/3rd maximum output.
IMD: Less than 0.1%.
(What,
do you think we sit here listening to 'audible distortion'...??? :-)
**Yes.
There's much tub-thumping about 'high fidelity' and 'straight wires with
gain' - like one type of amp absolutely fits these criteria and another
type don't.
**Few amplifiers actually fit that description, WHEN DRIVING REAL
LOUDSPEAKERS.
No need to shout, me auld shagger...
**There is, sometimes.
Quite a few manage it with dummy loads and sine waves, however.
(Not to mention whatever input or amp is used, the speakers and the
room will have the final say, in any case....)
**Strawman, duly noted.
Geekboy 'Usenet' terminology duly noted.....
**Strawman, duly noted.
(You been talking to the other opinionated, non-UK loudmouth that hangs
around in here by any chance?)
**That depends.
Like there are wise guys here and also idiots who put themselves through
a lot of extra effort and expense just to be bloody awkward or summat?
Have a little think for a minute - I don't know of *anyone* who uses
valves (or has got into valves) because he thinks they are *worse* than
ss amplification.....!!
**I do. Quite a few, in fact. One of my clients sold his (rather
excellent) SS amplification and purchased some crappy valve amps. When
questioned about listening to his BEST quality recordings, he admitted
that SS was superior. Valves were, (in his opinion) better for average,
crappy recordings.
That's me sorted then.... :-)
What does that tell you? They got no place in this ng for a start?
**Not at all. I have stated, ad nauseum, that a REALLY GOOD valve
amplifier
You're shouting again - do try to hold it together, there's a good chap.
**Clearly I need to shout. You don't seem to pay attention.
can sound indistinguishable from a good SS amp, given a suitably benign
load impedance. There is nothing wrong with a well designed, well
exectued valve amp. Except that such an amp will almost always cost
significantly more than an approximately equivalent SS model. The
differece come about when we are discussing, cheap, crappy valve amps.
They, almost without exception, exhibit audible distortion, even when
driving modest loads.
Who's discussing cheap, crappy valve amps?
**The original poster.
- That's your usual (what's that
term - 'strawman'?) little injection into the proceedings isn't it??
**Nope.
Or that
can subscribe here if they perform some sort of 'confession' or make an
obeisance to their (wiser) betters?
**Education never hurt anyone.
Agreed - try some.
**What would you suggest? Vaccuum tube theory? Nope. I can get by.
Ever see a valvie give an ss type a hard
time because he doesn't like/use valves?
**Every single day.
Must be hell....
**It is distressing being surrounded by fools.
Ask your self what TF the ss
brigade are so fekkin' scared of that they gotta make the sign of the
cross and start yammering about 'high fidelity' every time valves are
mentioned?
**I don't. REALLY GOOD valve amps easily conform to 'High Fidelity'
standards. No problem. Cheap, crappy valve amps, often do not.
Again with the 'cheap, crappy valve amps' - you really don't have an
argument do you? Why not just say *broken* amps and be done with it???
**Because many people imagine that because it has tubes, it must be good. It
is very important to show that this is not necessarily the case. A valve amp
may be good, or it may be bad.
Take a bloody good look at the Ship Of SS Fools you sail with when you
add to the 'antivalve' content in this ng, it's too ridiculous for
words - 'audio amplifiers' that don't *qualify* for inclusion in an
*audio* newsgroup....???!!!
**And again: REALLY GOOD valve amps are, in every sense, high fidelity
products. They can easily expose the faults in recordings. Equally, they
are easily capable of allowing the goodness shine through.
Stoppit, please - most of us just chuck the ****ing music on and listen to
it. We ain't 'measuring' it or giving it marks out of ten! We play it the
best way we like to hear it - is that really too hard to understand??
**Not at all.
The trouble with you *extreme* CD/SS types is you really got nowhere to
go, have you?
**Now you're engaing in projection. I suggest you do some homework, before
attempting to tar me with a brush you tar others with.
It can't be vinyl, it can't be valves, it can't be MP3s, it can't
be 24/92 or 24/192, it can't be AM, it can't be DAB, it can't be 78s, it
can't be cassettes, it can't be mono etc. etc. etc..
**And I have never said anything of the kind. Except AM (though I did build
a superb, all valve, 4 stage TRF, with a triode infinite impedance detector,
when I was 16.).
Fekkin' priceless......
In fact, the last valve amp, I listened to, which I could easily live
with, was the Audio Research VT100. Trouble is, I regularly listen to an
SS amp which outperforms the VT100 at a significantly lower cost.
I wouldn't worry about that - you're off the hook, ain't yer?
**Huh?
(It might make you feel better to know that I have 3 ss amps here, one
of which is used on a daily basis, OK...??)
**Means nothing to me. There are some crappy SS amps on the market.
Really?
**Yes, really.
That's news to me - can you name one current, freely available (in
the UK, of course) make and model??
**One of the most ordinary, I encounter reasonably frequently is the
Audiolab 8000A. It can deliver gobs of current, but sounds terrible. As for
current models, just pick up any sub-1,000 Squid surround sound receiver.
They all sound horrible. Any brand.
Many are quite good when driving (resistive) dummy loads, but fall flat
on their face, when driving real loudspeakers. Perhaps you need to listen
to an amp which can actually cope with speakers. Any of the small Rotel
models fit that bill quite nicely.
Read *all* my words (or don't bother to respond to any of them) - I've
already told you I have owned and used a number of Rotel amps. I don't
have them any more - now, does that tell you summat??
**Nope. Rotel have managed build some shockers, over the years. The RA02 is
not a shocker.
Kills me the way you
'anti****s' try to fit this group up with your own wacky little prejudices
and then try to wipe it off on those of us who have declared time and time
again we don't give a rat's arse what you or anyone else prefers or
uses....
Still, if it makes you happy.....???
**Nothing makes me happy. I'm a grump.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au