"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003 10:25:39 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


snip

Why can't you just say that you like the sound of vinyl more than that
of CD, without resorting to pseudo-technical gibberish such as "vinyl
is more lifelike", "there's something missing from CD" to do so!

Been done hundreds of times and sooner or later (normally sooner) the
'bashers' come crawling out of the woodwork to tell the 'vinyl
enthusiast'
he's 'wrong' and proceed the chant the litany of 'coloured', 'distorted',
'tainted', infected' or whatever other silly little emotional descriptive
comes to into their threatened little minds.

In those cases I'd say that the 'bashers' are plain wrong. No-one can
say you are 'wrong' to prefer vinyl.


Thank you.


However, the very reason why
these discussions are perpetuated is that pro-vinyl folks have a
tendency to associate their valid preference for vinyl with a denial
that vinyl is a technically inferior medium, compared with CD, in
terms of accurate audio reproduction (and please note the caveat).


Yes, because they apply a different set of criteria to the finished product.
Digiphiles usually refer to measurements, vinylphiles tend to use 'real
world' comparisons (as I do) and use non-specific (subjective, if you
prefer) phases such as 'lifelike', engaging', involving'. What price
'accuracy' if someone prefers something which is (supposedly) quantifiably
'inaccurate'?

Perhaps it will help you understand my pov if I explain that I often find it
hard to stop putting LPs on, no matter what the hour and that I simply can't
be botherd to hear a CD all the way through unless I put it on and wander
off to do something else. A CDP with a remote control in *anybody's* hands
will demonstrate what I mean.

Put another way - LPs last 4 mins per side, CDs last for months, in my
book - they simply do *not* hold my attention.

The difficulty is that both vinylists and digtalists both seek 'the best
possible sound' toward their different ends by vastly different means. I can
only reiterate that vinylists (IME) seem to be better able to accept this
fact and are a lot less prone to hissy attacks and personal abuse than the
'vinylphobes' (until provoked)......



To me, "coloured" and "distorted" are words that summarize two of the
technical characteristics of vinyl reproduction - they don't have to
be emotive words in the way that you seem to be interpret them.
Indeed, I'd hazard a guess that the reasons for your preference for
vinyl include the very facts that vinyl reproduction *is* coloured and
distorted - except that you'd probably use words like "warm" to
describe these characteristics :-)

What is it about you digital folks? Why do you feel so strongly about
another person's expressed preference, why do you resort to your own
'pseudo-technical gibberish' to trash that expressed preference?

Huh? When have I trashed anyone's *preference* for vinyl?


You're doing it now.......


Why does it
*bother* you so much?

Preferences don't bother me at all. Maybe perpetuation of technically
invalid assertions does.


........ by applying your own criteria (right or wrong) to other people's
expressed opinions and by trying to define what criteria are 'acceptable'
and what are not, by implication.



It's not often you see a vinylphile go out of his way
to trash digital 'music' (despite the fact that it would be very easy so
to
do) other than when put on the 'defensive'. 'Two dimensional', 'thin' and
'boring' do you for a start?

Fine, these all sound like nice subjective words about your response
to CD - at least, I'm assuming that you're using these subjectively,
and not suggesting that CD reproduction is like a surface or a solid
whose third dimension is smaller than the first and second! At least
you haven't tried to claim that CD has "something missing" with
respect to vinyl :-)


Oh, but is has IMO - the thing is do I need 'your permission' to state what
I think it is? Tell you what, I'll continue your pie analogy - CDs are like
a meat pie without any gravy!

How's that? :-)



The good news is that soon, hopefully, you people won't have to put up
with
these unsettling claims and the vinyl contingent will have somewhere to
express their enthusiasm and appreciation without having to deal with the
ankle-biters here in ukra - which has become the domain of a very small
number of extremely immature and bigotted people who only seem to want to
play some sort of 'cigarette card' game with technical specs.

Yep, there's some of that ... but, you must admit, that there are also
a fair number of those whose pro-vinyl / anti-digital stance borders
on the religious.


No-one is more 'pro-vinyl' than me, I promise you. If you prefer and enjoy
your digital music then I am truly delighted for you. If you had accused
vinylphiles of being mad, given the extra work and expense involved in the
pursuit of 'vinyl nirvana', I could do no other than utterly agree with you.
Now, does that sound fervently religious or particularly 'bigotted' to you?

CDs didn't get where they are today because they are 'better', they occupy
the 'lions share' of the market because lazy old Joe Public put them there.
Within 5 years (tops) SS digital music will topple them from top slot, wait
and see.

(In fact, these posts are my breaks from re-titling and 'resampling'
approximately 100 more albums worth of unnecessarily large MP3 files.....
;-)



AFAIAC, ukra has become a very boring place. I've seen the 'digi****'s'
feeding on newbies for far too long and I'm all jerked out with it. My
question is 'Who gets it next?'.

As I've said before, I suspect that you and I read different
newsgroups (albeit both labelled uk.rec.audio).


Kinda looks like it! Mine's full of mile-long 'vinyl is crap' threads -
what's yours got?



Once the 'vinyl freaks' have been seen off,
is it the 'multichannel freaks' turn? Should this group be renamed
'uk.rec.audio.2 channel.digital'?

Um ... I don't notice too many posters claiming that their
multichannel, DVD-based home cinema system is technically superior to
a dedicated CD-based stereo system!


Um...Possibly because this isn't an HT forum. The 5.1 SACD and DVD-A 'music'
boys are already starting to be accused of 'perpetuating technically invalid
assertions'.......

Tell you what Julian, drag your CDP and a few disks round to mine and we'll
have a 'shoot out' (or 'Circle Jerk' as it is known in some quarters) - I'm
fully prepared to put my needle where my mouth is.

Warning - my £350 'Disco Deck' and cheapo Ortofon cart held off and still
had a slight edge over the best (£3K) CDP I have ever heard, my new £1,350
RPM9/Shure V15 rig will blow your CDs into the weeds, I promise you. - You
will tell me that, however, I *never* make these claims, I leave it to the
'victims'! (Never failed yet! ;-)

Contact me off-group and we'll do it on the sly. I never mention it here -
one of the less regular posters here popped in last week to hear the killer
'valves & vinyl' combination. He didn't even say he liked it (already a
confirmed 'vinylist' mind) but he made it plain he would call in again
'soon' with more LPs*. (I can only assume he didn't 'hate' it too
much.....???? :-)


*Open house, me - when it comes to spinning the black stuff!

:-)