Ian Iveson wrote:

Patrick Turner wrote

The price I have to pay for top quality GOSS E&I lams has risen
from $8 per Kg to $12 over the last 12 mths,

Why?

Because the chinese are buying up huge qualtities of GOSS sheet to
satisfy
demand for goods made in china for export.

China can make its own GOSS, Patrick.

But what are the facts about chinese GOSS production?

Please stick to the facts please.



It wasn't so much the absolute
availability, but the priority given to audio equipment when there
are so many other rapidly increasing demands of greater strategic
importance. Imports have greater significance to them than price
alone.

They pay the world price for imported materials.

Then they add extremely cheap labour, and export the materials
with value added.

The labour is what makes the proct cheap.





So what grade GOSS are they importing? Is it top grade, laser-cut
and treated laminations? Or are they drawing in such a lot of the
basic GOSS stock that the price of all GOSS is going up? Or even,
are they putting up the price of steel in general?

I am not a trade expert, nor are you.
I know what my GOSS supplier here said to me when he charged the big
price increase
of 50% in 18 mths.

I suggest you search the trade records rather than ask the group or me
awkward
questions that you are too lazy to answer by your own efforts.




India, incidentally, has recycled its GOSS so many times there is a
growing efficiency crisis throughout the power conversion industry.

really?

Even with out GOSS, and with plain NOSS, efficiency can be high.

I suggest you bring more facts before stating a reason for a crisis in
India's power systems.





I have reason to believe many chinese OPTs do have GOSS material
which
is good
quality.
But there is far more to winding a decent OPT than just using good
iron.


I would bet that many use poor laminations, and not enough of them.

But your'e not a very successful punter.

Try finding out the facts first about chinese OPT core materials.




There is more to them than the quality of the steel stock. Fine
surface finish, durable and complete insulation, and flat cut edges,
are also crucial. Perhaps we might also agree that many trannies are
just too small, regardless of the quality of iron?

See my other post with a list of concerns I have about asian made
trannies which
give me reason never to buy chinese.
Japanese OPTs are way ahead, and have been for 50 years.



But we never se any exhaustive test reports of chinese crap.

So how do you know it is crap?

Because they like to conceal the truth.

Where no guranteed specification for a product is tendered, the product
can be deemed crook.

You don't just an amp by the paintwork.

One needs to know more, and if nothing is known, or NOTHING can be found
out
about the details of the product preparation, and the product is cheap,
then its safe to assume its crap technically *UNTIL IT IS PROVEN
OTHERWISE*.





So I don't buy audio amp parts made in china.

Wisely at present I think.

I am never 100% sure of my wisdom since i have a healthy respect
for humility; I could be wrong, and maybe somewhere some how there are
cheap
OPTs available from china which meet all my expectations, and conform to
the standard of thought and detail
about OPTs as so clearly illustrated at my website.

But right now i don't know where decent chinese OPTs can be purchased.

None of the chinese I have spoken to who have enquired to me to se if i
wanted transfromers were
able to proceed with a sample of what I like after i directed them to my
website.

I'd be delighted to have some chinese maker sell me samples of OPTs that
conform to my designs.



You are not worth the effort. Where *do*
you buy from? Australia mostly, I bet. So why single out China for
criticism?

I don't buy trannies or chokes from anyone, I make them myself.





They act arrogantly by not providing us with the full details of
the
construction of their products.

It is not necessarily arrogant. They wisely have no interest in
dealing with you.

Their Internet sites have been set up arrogantly to exclude the details
of what they make.
My existance is quite irrellevant, although perhaps some chinese may
have copied my
OPT design No1 without regard to me.

But OPT No1 is far heavier and bigger than most makes would like to use,

and bean counters will say no to most entrepreneurs in asia wanting
to make a killing from tube amp sales to the West.
I am a complet nobody in the world of who's who, I am not Paravicini,
Peter Quorvtrop, Bill Johnson, etc, and not someone widely recognised by
such magazines as
Stereophile etc, so a maker saying they have a Turner designed OPT
will not bring sales. Hence I have no fear anyone is exploiting me.

I can laugh at the whole circus around me.
But every time i measure some other guys amp is don't ever measure well
as mine.
And few sound as well to me, and i have zero reason to feel insecure,
I have built enough gear to know I can easily equal the best, and i
don't care
if anyone doesn't like to agree.

I hope my confidence does not make you sick, if it does,
find your own bucket.





I expect they lack the kind of small-to-medium
industrial enterprises that could profit from your scale of sales.
They know that larger concerns won't take printed specs at face
value...they will always want to visit and inspect and get free
dinners.

The chinese are a mixture of cleverness and cunning.

If I had a reliable supplier of trannies at the right price, my amps
could be cheaper
without any loss in quality, and i'd sell more.

The chinese amps will only get cheaper.

So its pointless trying to compete with them for the cheap budget models
of amplifiers.

Once you get away from the cheap crap that Kieth is raving about its all
gets quite different.
Amps built around the 845 and high power PP amps are then all quite
expensive,
and there is a market chance for anyone despite cheap chinese labour.

I have a client wanting a pair of 40 watt SE 845 mono amps right now,
custom built,
and he couldn't give a **** about chinese amps.

Patrick Turner









cheers, Ian