"Keith G" wrote in message
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"Trevor Wilson" wrote in message
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"Keith G" wrote in message
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"Trevor Wilson" wrote
OK. My suspicion was that, for cost effectiveness, the pre section
componentry and circuit might be common to most (if not all) of the
range....?
**Big mistake. Just listen to one of their HT recievers and compare it
to one of Denon's standalone tuners and you'll see what I mean. The
standalone tuners are very, very good indeed.
WTF has that got to do with it?
**Well, everything. Japanese manufacturers tend to keep their premium
products distinct from their budget stuff, in terms of component choice
and topology.
I'd hardly call a 250 and a 500 quid amp 'premium products'....
**There's your problem. You equate price with quality.
Gone are the days when manufactuers used
common items in their products.
I doubt it....
**When examining two entirely different ranges of products, it is a fact.
I'm sure it is for *entirely different ranges of products*....
**Good. Now we're getting womewhere.
(????)
In fact, check the back panel of your 655
and see where it is manufactured. I KNOW that the 1500 originates from
Japan.
So what? You think the Chinese can't *manufacture* or summat??
**They COULD, but they don't. Yet.
That's Quad, NAD, Audiolab, Mission, Wharfedale, Rogers (et al) in the
**** then....
**Looks like.
Keep it real - I'm talking about a 200 quid amp here, not a 2,000 quid
amp...
**Is the PMA1500AE 2k Squid? My point is that if you cared to listen to
the PMA1500AE, you may well be stunned at how good it is and you may well
be persuaded to dump all your notions of SS equipment.
For two pins (and 449 on the Net) it's almost tempting....
(Then I got another bloody amp in my spares cupboard, ain't I....??)
Wader minnit - *AE*...?? Not 1500R? What's the difference???
**Dunno. I have yet to examine the 1500AE closely.
OK, forget that - I found a nice comparator on the Denon UK website. (the
2000AE goes 24 kg eh....??)
**I believe that you will go out of your way to ensure that you never
hear something truly special, if it contains transistors.
I would (within reason) but you still haven't suggested one...??
**Haven't I? Are you paying attention?
Sorry, what did you say....???
(I nodded off....)
OK, perhaps you could point me in the right direction, I have had
various models of the following makes of SS amps (in no special
order):
Denon
**From terrible to quite good.
OK, I'll play! :-)
Let me guess - the one I've got comes under the 'terrible'
category....??? :-)
**Nope. It ain't bad. It ain't great though.
I think it's beezer - it fronts my triode power amps up a feck sight
better than the EAR Line Stage!!
**Yeah, well, that would not be difficult. The 1500AE blows away the 655.
(Another hole in another foot.....)
The 2A3 SET, driven by the Pre-Outs from the Denon, on my Jerichos (96 dB)
with the new Viston drivers (only 106 quid a side...) is a *terrifying*
combination - I haven't even *begun* to take it in yet and the bloody
drivers are only 3/4 days old yet!!
(Ask Phil here about 'flinching'....!! ;-)
Luxman
**Their new stuff? Dunno.
No, old one with a fabulous front panel but very bland sound......
**Yep.
Here it is:
http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/luxman.JPG
Not quite as nice as I remembered it and no remote - so no hard
feelings....
**Jeez! You've got to be kidding! That thing is, what? 30 years old? You've
replaced every electrolytic cap in it, haven't you? If you haven't, it's
performance will be a long way off par. Even then, I'll betcha it is chocka
with crappy electrolytic coupling caps.
**Here's a thought: Compare your cheap, Chinese amps with a known good
quality amp. Say, an Audio Research VT100. Then compare the VT100 to a
high quality SS amp. Let me know what you find.
You're talking like a **** - I wouldn't know where to begin to look for a
VT100 and I'm damned if I would chase after one!! I said 'within
reason'...
**I'm talking like a sane person. The VT100 represents, aguably, the
pinnnacle of what is possible with a valve power amp. After you compare one
to your cheap Chinese amps, you can then make some logical deductions about
the quality (or lack thereof) of the comparison amp.
For me, I find the cheap Chinese
amps to sound like crap. They colour the sound to an unnacceptable
degree. Their build quality is nothing to write home about and their
output transformers (the single, most important part about any valve amp)
are crap. A cheap Rotel would nail them to the wall.
It's the British Motorcycle Industry 'Jap Crap' mantra all over again,
ain't it...???
**Nope. The BIG difference, was that the Japanese, almost from day one,
adopted the mantra: "We must build the best quality we can." A present,
China represents a huge, cheap labour force, which allows Western and
Japanese companies the capacity to produce existing designs at lower prices.
It will not always be so. China can and will produce superior quality
products at lower prices. However, all the cheap, Chinese amps I've seen,
lack decent quality output transformers. And it is the output transformer
which is pivotal to the quality of a valve amplifier. Frankly, I am
surprised that you bother arguing this point.
And again: It will not always be this way. I purchased some Chinese KT88s
some years ago. They were the worst (and I do mean, THE WORST) valves I have
ever purchased. Ever. Of the ones which did not fail instantly, the rest
enjoyed a very short life span. I tracked down some NOS, MOV KT88s (at huge
cost to the client), which are still in service today. Newer Chinese valves
are much better, but, IMO, the Russian valves are better still. The Chinese
will build decent valve amps, but they do not (IME, do so at present.
Purchasers would be much better putting their money towards a (say) Rotel
instead.
--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au
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