Glenn Richards wrote:

[Snipped Text]

FWIW, I think the speakers are the biggest part of a system as far as
the sound you get goes.

The speakers certainly do have the single greatest effect on the system.
My kitchen speakers are something called A-Part Custom, distributed I
believe by Sennheiser. It's an 8" woofer with a co-axial 1" mylar
tweeter (similar to a car speaker) flush mounted in the ceiling. In
absolute terms it's not "hi-fi", but it sounds far far better than a
tinny ghetto blaster type thing... and more importantly doesn't take up
any precious worktop space, and isn't going to get covered in grease.

Yes, choosing a tool for the job helps too.

A friend has something similar, although he's taken the approach of
putting a pair of Cambridge Soundworks PC speakers on top of the wall
cupboards. These are little 2" cubes (similar in appearance to the old
Bose Acoustimass system) plus a separate bass enclosure. The blurb
refers to it as a "sub", but there's nothing subsonic about it - it's
just a separate bass driver.

Yeah, some of those PC speakers can sound OK.

This also sounds more than adequate for having music or radio on in the
morning. Cost is about the same too - the only difference is I bought a
cheap house and refurbished it so was able to do this stuff for minimal
cost.

That does help for sure.

I've never heard a difference at all myself. Although I do buy better
cables just for durability.

There is a difference to be heard. Sometimes that difference is tiny.
Sometimes it's quite noticeable.

Several years ago when I still lived at home I recruited my mum (who's
tone deaf!) as a guinea pig.

She couldn't tell the difference when I connected one speaker out of phase.

She also couldn't tell the difference when I connected the speakers out
of phase across the positive speaker terminals (the Out Of Phase Stereo
effect).

But when I swapped the freebie cable between CD player and amp for a
Cambridge Atlantic (I was about 17 at the time so a tenner for a cable
was quite a bit!) she did hear it. I very carefully asked the question
as "can you hear a difference?" rather than "does this sound better?"

I must admit, I probably wouldn't recommend my Mum buys a £1000 Hi-Fi,
she just wouldn't appreciate it.

Have also tried similar tests on various friends. Without fail everyone
hears a difference between freebie and Atlantic, but not all hear a
difference when you go up the scale from there.

I think the biggest difference is likely to be the connections more than
the cable though. But yes, I think there is a point you get to where it
isn't worth the bother (and cost) any more.

Yes, you should there, although you might find (here we go again!)
that a standard digital co-ax might be better. As far as digital
goes, it'll either work, or not.

The Technics player only has an optical output, otherwise I'd have used
co-ax.

An interesting thing I discovered though...

When messing around at a friend's house we compared using a Technics
SL-PS770 to a Toshiba SD-2109, using the CD or DVD player as a transport
only and feeding the digital output into a Yamaha DSP-AX620.

What we discovered (much to our surprise) was that the DVD player
actually sounded better as a transport than the CD player.

At the time we put this down to optical v co-ax, the Technics player
only has optical out, the DVD player only had co-ax out. But when I
upgraded my amp last year to the Arcam (AVR-250) I did a similar test,
Technics SL-PG590 against Toshiba SD-530. Both using optical. Again, the
DVD player sounded better every time.

It might just be better setup.

Just using something the right size will do it. However, and I'm not
being awkward here, but how much of it is 'better', or just
'different'?

Fair point actually.

As far as audio goes I'd define "better" as "I like this more". It's
that simple.

Yes, that's what really matters in the end isn't it?

In a way it's an extension of musical taste. I'll admit that I'm quite a
big fan of country music. A friend of mine hates it. He likes Iron
Maiden. I hate Iron Maiden (and metal in general).

LOL, well, I like nearly all music, except for country.

The problem with audio (and indeed music) is that it's so subjective.
That's the problem with reviews of CDs (albums, not CD players). The
reviewer might hate the album, but if you listen to it you'll really
like it.

Absolutely. Although I do have one or two recording that are tracks I
like, but have been done badly.

There is no doubt that improving the sound of a system is better
having the money spent on the right equipment. Buy good cables by all
means, but keep it in context with your system.

Exactly. If you're connecting a £200 pair of speakers to a £250 amp then
you probably want to spend £3/metre on cable. If you really push the
boat out then perhaps £5/metre.

But if you're connecting a £500 pair of speakers to a £1000 amp then it
makes sense to use cable costing £20/metre. But only if you think the
difference is worth the money.

Yes, I use Chord Rumour 4 (£20/metre) to connect the front and centre
speakers. But I use CPC's finest 105-strand to connect the surround
channels. You don't want too much detail from behind anyway as it gets
distracting - and besides, 105-strand cable is far easier to bury in the
plaster than Rumour 4!

I haven't had the opportunity to do that yet. I've currently run the
cables through some trunking, but it's pretty much hidden behind the TV
etc.

--
Andy Hewitt
http://www.thehewitts.eclipse.co.uk/
http://web.mac.com/andrewhewitt1/