On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:04:04 -0000, "Keith G"
wrote:


I'm wary of terms like 'true bass' given that, at best, 'hifi' is a
*depiction* of 'real sound' - but, surely it doesn't need to be repeated
that nobody in his right mind would seek 'true bass' from horns or
bookshelf
speakers....???


It does sound a lot nicer, though. And it certainly doesn't sound like
"a lot of bass". And why do you think that nobody in his right mind
would seek true bass from *any* speaker? It is an entirely reasonable
thing to seek.



No, try it this way round - why would people seeking 'true bass' from a
speaker choose the wrong tool for the job...??


That I can see. I do want true bass though - I'm different, I suppose.



OK, just for you ( I know how much you like them) I've recorded the track
that immediately springs to mind for 'isolated' treble. It has been posted
before but I think you will find it is better miked now:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/mic.JPG

- than it was before, on the poor little lapel mic! There's a lot less
'room' in the equation (almost none) which, of course, means the bass is
less than I get to hear for real as my bass comes off the walls, but there
is at least some indication of it. See below for the relevance....

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/show/Track10.mp3


This is really hard to judge, because the track is entirely synthetic
- I have no internal sound picture to compare it with. It does seem to
me though that the bottom end of the bass just isn't there.

I do not ordinarily like to hear 'treble' or 'bass', I like a sound which
Swim describes as *balanced* - that is 'cohesive' in audio terms, I
believe...?? The only exception to that is a 'proper organ' when I like to
*feel* the bass and, as I have said 28,000 times now, I don't expect to get
that from horns the size I have in the room the size mine is. (Later on, if
I get time, I'm going to hook up to the Ruarks and 'revisit' a couple of my
organ discs!!)


Balance is everything - you should be unaware of all parts of the
spectrum. If you are noticing treble or bass, they are simply wrong.
That is all part of my advice to people buying speakers - if they make
you go "wow", just walk on by - they are crap.

In fact, as I have said before, I quickly accomodate the various sounds from
my system and various radios (car/bathroom/garage) very quickly and tend not
to be listening to the kit. Best example of this is out in my garage where I
frequently enjoy R3 of an afternoon from a decent little Roberts radio - I
hear the music only and never give a thought to the radio itself..!!

I have a couple of Roberts of my own for exactly those purposes, and
they are great. But if I am sitting down of an evening to actually
listen to some music, they simply don't do the job.

KEF
Tannoy
Wharfedale
Quad
Dynaudio
Ruark
JM-Labs
B&W
Jamo (Concert 8s)
Rogers

plus probably others I can't recall...??


Yup, some good names there.



Yes, all the same but different with skightly different strengths and
weaknesses - all of which I could live with if I had to, all of which I have
rejected...

Well, from my point of view it is a shame you didn't persevere.




You'll get away with that - if I had posted it, I'd damn soon have a couple
of hot little faces telling me that it's probably 'builders's blindness' or
somesuch....


I know all too well about builder's blindness. But there is slightly
more to it than that. I built a design that simply isn't available to
the manufacturer, and guarantees a smooth response with no honking
humps.


OK, here's one for you and for 'someone else' to throw rocks at: Last week,
quite out of the blue, I bumped into an old friend I hadn't seen for about
TWENTY years!! And, yes, he lives only a couple of miles from here, which
would have been a tragedy (as we have been here ourselves for getting for 10
years) *if* we had a lot more in common than we appear now to do!! (??) (I'm
getting a little too old for ****-ups and skirt-chasing now!! ;-)

Naturally, he got a demo of my kit (for at least 20 seconds - no interest in
it whatsoever) of the track posted above when I got the standard 'Woah,
that's nice and clear!' immediate reaction and then 'Here's comes a bit of
'bottom end!' a few moments later. Then switch off and no further reference
to it.


That is exactly the response I would expect. The initial reaction to
any system with an exaggeration of any particular part of the
frequency range is fairly predictable. That is well known to recording
engineers who use the fact to inject the right mood into their
product.

Indicate when you have got/heard that track and I'll post it again recorded
from my Ruarks a little later on, for comparison....



Bring 'em on!

d

--
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com