Keith G wrote:
"Serge Auckland" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:


Now, unless I'm missing summat, I can't see how the (In)Fidelios are
benefitting from the sub - the omnipresent 'traffic noise' (with the sub
up loud enough to 'count' - which it is) and the 'wha wha wha' tail-off
(way behind the speakers) is far more of a PITA than any extra whoomph on
the deep stuff....??

The problem is the sub's gotta go back tomorrow and I've got only a small
'WOO' to experiment with it!



I haven't listened to your samples as I'm currently using the internal
'speakers on my laptop, and they're not the best thing to use for
evaluating subwoofers.


The trick is to drop 'em to a CDRW and bang 'em through your main system,
but no worries...


I've finally got a computer that's connected t'internet, to newsgroups,
to a hifi :-)

And, I couldn't tell a great deal of difference in the bass. The subbed
tracks sounded 'fuller', but a clear issue hear is that my speakers only
go down to 61Hz (Dynaudio 42s), so it's unlikely (I think) that much
bass would come through your recordings. The biggest difference is the
sense of 'airiness', but here I preferred the non-sub tracks. This is
exactly the thing I find, but yours are quite an exaggerated example.
Sub on - almost like one of those 3D virtualiser switches; sub off sharp
focus/soundstage.

I've no idea why this is happening - I'd have thought that amplifying
such low frequencies could not possibly affect, say, female vocals. I've
never read anything about this in reviews.

I'd add that the sub does introduce sounds I haven't heard before, and
on the whole and at lowish levels it's impressive - that's with tiddly
Dynaudio Contours (43Hz) on the main non-computer hifi. If I get time
I'll try your tracks on my subbed system.


In my view, the best way to set up a sub is to set the crossover frequency
at whatever you reckon is the -3dB point of your existing 'speakers, in
your case, I'd start with 50Hz.

Start with the level control turned right down, and listening to normal
music (say an orchestra) turn the sub level up until you can hear it
filling in the bottom. Then try some bass heavy music and make up/down
adjustments until it sounds right. If you can't get it sounding right,
then try changing the crossover frequency, say 40Hz.



Thank you for that Serge, but it has all been done - I'm fairly Oh Fay with
the methodology and the 40 Hz setting is the best. (You have not heard these
InFidelios Serge - they are a whole new ballgame, especially as the drivers
are starting to come on song, the Jerichos that you have heard now reside in
the garage...!! ;-)


The REL manuals are good, particularly for me - there's one good summary
paragraph -

"Hint: There is a tendency among audiophiles to set the crossover point
too high and the gain
too low when first learning how to integrate a REL with the system, the
fear being one of
overwhelming the main speakers with bass. But in doing so, the resulting
set-up will be
lacking in bass depth and dynamics. The proper crossover point and gain
setting will increase
overall dynamics, allow for extended bass frequencies, and improve
soundstage properties.
Please note: gain must be adjusted in conjunction with crossover
changes. In general, when
selecting a lower crossover point, more gain may need to be applied."

I've settled on a 36Hz xover frequency for the Contour 1.3/IIs, with the
volume at about half. However, tracks with 'big bass' played loud like
the one on this page:

http://patchoulian.googlepages.com/audiosamples

don't work well at all, but this may be a limitation of my room. The sub
is one of these:

http://www.rel.net/strata5.htm


When I first set mine up, the biggest surprise was on some chamber music
which didn't have any deep bass *in the music*, but there was plenty in
the recorded ambiance, and it went from sounding like a studio recording
to sounding live. It was, by the way, recorded in a hall rather than a
studio, but with the subs, you could hear distant traffic noise.


Well....

One should take a length of Universal Beam about 1200mm long (not too big -
the 178 x 102mm section will do), drill a hole in the neutral zone (halfway
up the web, where compression and tension neutralise each other) about 2/3
of the way along (at the 800/400mm mark) and suspend it from one's scrotum
by means of a noose at the end of a suitable length of prickly sisal garden
twine so that the 'short end' is about 200mm from the ground, with the other
end remaining in continuous contact with the ground. This done, one should
then attempt to engage fully and enthusiastically in a game of 'five a side
football'...

Is how much I need this sub for music...


:-)

But never mind me, after all WTF do I know? I made Swim sit through the
first couple of minutes of no less than 7 or 8 tracks of *unbridled techno
bass* (Yello 'The Eye') with and without the sub just now and she picked the
'no sub version' *unfailingly* 'til the very last one and, having lost it by
then, said she wasn't sure!

(I have the opportunity to hook it up for a movie now and asked if she
wanted to try it on summat 'explosive' - *Nope* was the reply, once
again....!!)

Tbh, it puts me in mind of an E-Type towing a caravan which desperately
needs its tyres pumping up!! (And this sub is the best I've had here so far,
sans doute...!! ;-)

There ya go....


I think Serge has explained it well - I can hear the advantages he
describes. It's just for me, with the woolly soundstage issue and
overblown bass on certain recordings, I'm not too sure overall.

Rob