"Rob" wrote in message
...
Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , Iain
Churches wrote:


Interesting observations. Thanks Dave. But how can that be reconciled
with the all amplifiers sound the same argument? :-)
I've not tried the A21 in any version, nor can I recall anyone
claiming that, "All amplifiers sound the same".


You either have a poor or a very selective memory, Jimbo - or you
perhaps were wise enough not to read all the posts from a former
subscriber here (the Roseate One) who frequently made the claim (as he
slid further into what appeared to be an AV/can't be arsed with 'audio'
vegetative state) that all amplifiers did more or less sound the same
with the preconditions that they were 'good', solid state and cost 300
UKP or more.

Well, perhaps it was sometimes claimed by one poster in a message that
*someone else* had said "All amplifiers sound the same".

But I can't recall anyone making such a statement with no qualifiers. If
you can, perhaps you can post the details of who, when, etc. - i.e. give
the date, time, title, etc, of the posting, and the full wording.


I'm afraid I must shoulder some of the blame. It's my contention that they
don't sound the same - far from it.

A couple of people had the patience to explain that most SS amplifiers
built nowadays simply do sound the same to all intents and purposes given:

* a reasonable set of operating parameters, principally relating to
speakers;
* a certain specification, which most off the shelf integrated amplifiers
meet.

Serge (and you) guided me through the whole thing, but I became lost at a
crucial point of measurement (you measure the electrical specification, I
wanted to measure the sound; you said they were the same thing; I said
they might not), and left it at that. I can't get to grips with google's
newsgroup search, but here's a bit of the thread, from Serge's
contribution:

"Price of the amplifier isn't important. It is well recognised, at least
amongst audio professionals, that the ear's ability to hear differences
has
a lower threshold. If an amplifier's performance is below that threshold,
then all differences between such amplifiers is not audible."

http://groups.google.co.uk/group/uk....99490883d4a4f8

It's a timely reminder that whatever the measured differencs between
equipment, if even the worse of them measures below the threshold of hearing
for that particular parameter (e.g. THD 0.1%, frequency response +- 0.5dB
20-20kHz, 1kHz level matching to 0.5dB etc etc) then no matter how much
better one device is over another, they will both sound the same.

Two amplifiers with no qualification could well sound different into any
particular loudspeaker load, but if then you carry out the measurements,
there is always a measureable reason for the difference. As has been
previously suggested, the Sugden's higher output impedance could well result
in an altered frequency response into an ESL load compared with the 303.
It's that altered frequency response that's audible, not any intrinsic
difference between amplifiers.

S.


--
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