David Looser wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message
om...
David Looser wrote:
"Rob" wrote in message
om...
To become a chartered engineer, you'd need to demonstrate a number of
competencies. Formal qualifications are one, but not the only, way to
demonstrate some of them. I think perhaps if you'd written a book or
acted a consultant, that type of thing.
I just love that!, "you think perhaps".
Yes.

Would anyone employ you as a
consultant if you *didn't* have qualifications?
I'd much prefer that they had experience of doing the job I had in mind.

They need both. Of course nobody will employ you as a consultant straight
out of uni. But you aren't going to be able to do the job (to gain that
experience) until you have the necessary theoretical knowledge.
As for "writing a book",
well anyone can "write a book", what does it prove?
I should have spelled it out for you. The book would have to be cognate,
and thereby act in lieu of formal qualifications (such as a degree).

Again, just as with the consultancy you'd need to have a deep knowledge of
the subject before any book you wrote would carry the sort of credibility
needed for that. And deep knowledge starts with learning the existing state
of the art. The self-taught aren't going to have that.

Quite. But and and, you don't need a formal qualification to do that.
You can be self-taught. I'd stress this is IME and it just seems obvious.

Where I work 3 of the senior academic staff in our team of 9 have no
relevant first degree, and no higher degree. One of them published 8
peer reviewed papers last year. The other is leading consultant (or at
least was, apparently). The other is normal, er, like me (apart from the
senior bit, obviously).

Not really related, I've just had a look at the Institute of Sound and
Communications Engineers - absence of quals is not a bar to membership.
I've just had a look at their website (having never heard of them
before). I see nothing there that suggests they have the authority to
confer Chartered Engineer status.

I'm going to have to go quite slowly in future! I used the phrase 'not
really related', and thought it might be of interest in a general
discussion about qualifications on an audio NG.

We were talking about chartered status, why mention a body that cannot award
chartered status?

I would have thought that to be a Royal Engineer you wouldn't need
formal qualifications - don't know though.

You think they are all squadies?

No. I'm not sure what makes you ask that question.

Because the only people in the army without formal qualifications are the
squadies.

OK, I didn't know that. Seems stupid to me.

The days when someone could become a professional engineer simply by
"learning on the job" are well and truly past.

If attitudes like yours prevail, then yes.

Whilst I guess from your attitude that you'd be happy to be operated on by
an unqualified surgeon, travel in an airliner flown by a self-taught pilot
and be defended in court by someone who learned his law from a book bought
in a second-hand book shop.


I'd rather they be experienced and good at what they do.

Of course, and your point I think, is that they won't tend to be in that
position unless they have a professional qualification, and that will
tend to involve a formal qualification.

These days formal training is a necessary preliminary to employment in *any*
profession. And that includes engineering.


What I'm trying to get across is that while the qualification is
necessary, it isn't always, or even often, sufficient.

It'd be nice if you could wash yourself of 'necessary'. When I left
school I worked in a surveying office. After a while they let me loose
and I was out doing surveys, which were then signed off by a chartered
surveyor who'd never seen the building/land.

Of course, having a qualification helps. But it doesn't necessarily mean
you can do whatever you're qualified to do any better than someone with
lesser or no qualifications.

R