On 29/03/2011 09:43, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In aweb.com, Rob
wrote:
On 28/03/2011 08:54, Jim Lesurf wrote:

The BPI probably would not need that info if you refused to give it.
They and the companies could act in concert I suspect. And refusing to
give the info might not cause the court to look kindly on your
behaviour.


The origin of the CD is crucial. it's no business of the BPI if it's not
within their remit.

The only way they can tell it is outwith their remit is to know which CD is
was. Does it not occur to you that a UK civil court could (AIUI):


The origin of the CD. Just think about it for two tics. Where the CD
came from, and what's recorded on it. This really isn't difficult.

A) Require you to answer a question, and take into account a refusal.
Particularly as you confess the answer is "crucial".

B) Examine the *physical* evidence. i.e. look at what you have at home -
computers, etc - and see they can find any copies of music where you don't
have the CD or some other legal source you can establish for what they
identify.

In the UK civil court decisions are 'on balance'. There would be a burden
on you to satisfy the court that any such copies they found or you admitted
were ones you had with permission under copyright.

Note also what I said to Keith. That usenet is an open place and archived.
What they can find from the archives could be presented as evidence as part
of a case, or as a reason to do the above. They only have to pursuade the
judge that this gives reasonable grounds for the above.

The rest is my personal call - I know the legal
position.

OK. Since you are so certain you "know the legal position" put that to the
test. Contact them and tell them what you have done. Then tell the rest of
us what they say and do.


But more seriously, I would like to talk it through with the people
who do the work, and see what they think.

Go ahead.


Yes, I will given the opportunity.

Again, put that to the test if you are so confident. Ask the BPI to help
you identify the artists, etc, on each of the copies you have made if you
don't know who they are or what labels market their music.

ahem Let me predict in advance that you would probably find contacting
the BPI "inconvenient" or "unnecessary". :-)

Would you be happy for me to contact the BPI on your behalf, and perhaps
point them at this thread?... or is what you "know" less than 100 percent
absolutely certain in your mind?

Note that there are recent examples where a UK civil court has made an ISP
give the details of the person who has an account with them. I recall a
discussion about this on BBC radio a short while ago.

As with Keith, if you know tell me what you have described is entirely
'hypothetical' and that you have *not* in reality ever copied a CD and kept
the copy when you no longer have the CD, I'm happy to believe you. I
appreciate that you may feel your individual "morality" would think this OK
even if you haven't done it.


More or less utterly bonkers.

I started all this regarding the legal position. The only thing I've
learned (from Arny) is that I'm not allowed to destroy the physical copy
and retain the electronic copy. I have to keep both or none at all.
Presumably that's written in statute, or maybe contract/case law.

And of course the situation is hypothetical. Blimey. I'm hardly going to
do something illegal and then publicly declare. Just to be clear. I have
never ripped a CD and then given the physical copy to a charity shop,
having retained the ripped copy. I can't comment on the extrapolated
examples you give ("the copies you have made") - is this some sort of
guilt thing manifesting itself? :-)

And if it wasn't hypothetical, do you really think I'd follow the
guidance you're at such pains to set out?

And you really think I'm going to ask the BPI alone about the morality
of copyright? And where the proceeds of music production end up,
morally? Do you even know who the BPI represents? You follow the notion
of vested interest? Do you understand what morality is? You do
understand that it is not a '100% matter'? Do you know even the
slightest thing about internet music dissemination?

Low opinion of me noted :-)

Gosh.

Rob