Add a DAC to a cheap CD player?
 

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 15:34:29 GMT, Wally wrote:

Jim H wrote:

Exactly. Providing it isn't broken, a cheap CD player should sound
just as good going into a good quality DAC as an expensive player
with the same DAC, otherwise it wouldn't pass the redbook standard
and coldn't display the CD logo.

I suppose when I said this I should have mentioned jitter, however it's
very unlikely to be a problem with a half decent DAC, we're talking very
low data rates here.

People who spend tens of thousands on 'high-end' stuff like to buy
equipment that makes jitter audiable, so that their expensive CD player
sounds different than a cheap one and they can feel superior. A well
designed DAC should not do this.

This is good to hear. Would I be right in thinking that an optical input
makes a given DAC more expensive? Are there sonic reasons to choose one
connection type over the other?

Not really. Go for whatever is most convenient, most likely coax.
Cable worshipers may disagree, but round here interconnects are a way of
getting signal from A to B, there are those who claim different metals or
optical fibers in digital interconnects change the sound
:-D

A lot of people here are sort-of against outboard DACs, but I
disagree, at least on economic terms. With 4 digital sources in my
hifi, I would have preffered if none of them came with DACs so I
could put the saving into one really.

Btw, I ment to type "really good DAC"

I was quite surprised at the range on eBay going for what looked liked
very
sensible money (looked at the completed items to get an idea of final
prices).

Indeed. Get a few reviews, avoid the idiot high end and you'll be fine.

--
Jim H jh
@333
.org

Add a DAC to a cheap CD player?
 

Jim H wrote:

I suppose when I said this I should have mentioned jitter, however
it's very unlikely to be a problem with a half decent DAC, we're
talking very low data rates here.

I've seen mention of some sort of timing signal being fed back to the
transport, something to do with jitter, but I don't know how neccessary it
is. I don't get the impression that it's a universal feature.


People who spend tens of thousands on 'high-end' stuff like to buy
equipment that makes jitter audiable, so that their expensive CD
player sounds different than a cheap one and they can feel superior.
A well designed DAC should not do this.

Something to do with better kit does a better job of showing up flaws,
hence, really good kit sounds crap? ;-)


Not really. Go for whatever is most convenient, most likely coax.
Cable worshipers may disagree, but round here interconnects are a way
of getting signal from A to B,

I was wondering if coax is susceptible to electronic noise. I notice that my
player has a phono socket for the coax output - is a standard phono cable
okay for this?


there are those who claim different
metals or optical fibers in digital interconnects change the sound
:-D

I hear they're born every minute. ;-)


Btw, I ment to type "really good DAC"

NP - I got the idea.


Indeed. Get a few reviews, avoid the idiot high end and you'll be
fine.

I'll see if I can sort out a short list of stuff that goes for under 200. I
see there are a few units that go for as little as 50-75 quid.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest work: The Langlois Bridge (after Van Gogh)

Add a DAC to a cheap CD player?
 

Jim H wrote:

I suppose when I said this I should have mentioned jitter, however
it's very unlikely to be a problem with a half decent DAC, we're
talking very low data rates here.

I've seen mention of some sort of timing signal being fed back to the
transport, something to do with jitter, but I don't know how neccessary it
is. I don't get the impression that it's a universal feature.


People who spend tens of thousands on 'high-end' stuff like to buy
equipment that makes jitter audiable, so that their expensive CD
player sounds different than a cheap one and they can feel superior.
A well designed DAC should not do this.

Something to do with better kit does a better job of showing up flaws,
hence, really good kit sounds crap? ;-)


Not really. Go for whatever is most convenient, most likely coax.
Cable worshipers may disagree, but round here interconnects are a way
of getting signal from A to B,

I was wondering if coax is susceptible to electronic noise. I notice that my
player has a phono socket for the coax output - is a standard phono cable
okay for this?


there are those who claim different
metals or optical fibers in digital interconnects change the sound
:-D

I hear they're born every minute. ;-)


Btw, I ment to type "really good DAC"

NP - I got the idea.


Indeed. Get a few reviews, avoid the idiot high end and you'll be
fine.

I'll see if I can sort out a short list of stuff that goes for under 200. I
see there are a few units that go for as little as 50-75 quid.


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest work: The Langlois Bridge (after Van Gogh)

Add a DAC to a cheap CD player?
 

just me wrote:

In fact, my choice would be to look for an Arcam Black Box 500 which
you should be able to pick up for £200. Leaving aside the flexible
connectivity (which you might never use) it sounds bloody marvellous.
I use it with DAB & MD and soon Freeview, although not with CD
(prefer the sound of the 8000CD's in-built DAC, but that wont really
be an issue for you). I would also keep an eye out for the Alchemist
TS-D1 or TS-D2. The latter, in particular, was a terrific upgrade and
they are both quite compact.

Duly noted for the short list / price check.

How good, or not, is DAB through the external DAC?


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest work: The Langlois Bridge (after Van Gogh)

Add a DAC to a cheap CD player?
 

just me wrote:

In fact, my choice would be to look for an Arcam Black Box 500 which
you should be able to pick up for £200. Leaving aside the flexible
connectivity (which you might never use) it sounds bloody marvellous.
I use it with DAB & MD and soon Freeview, although not with CD
(prefer the sound of the 8000CD's in-built DAC, but that wont really
be an issue for you). I would also keep an eye out for the Alchemist
TS-D1 or TS-D2. The latter, in particular, was a terrific upgrade and
they are both quite compact.

Duly noted for the short list / price check.

How good, or not, is DAB through the external DAC?


--
Wally
www.art-gallery.myby.co.uk
Latest work: The Langlois Bridge (after Van Gogh)

Add a DAC to a cheap CD player?
 

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 17:53:14 GMT, Wally wrote:

just me wrote:

In fact, my choice would be to look for an Arcam Black Box 500 which
you should be able to pick up for £200. Leaving aside the flexible
connectivity (which you might never use) it sounds bloody marvellous.
I use it with DAB & MD and soon Freeview, although not with CD
(prefer the sound of the 8000CD's in-built DAC, but that wont really
be an issue for you). I would also keep an eye out for the Alchemist
TS-D1 or TS-D2. The latter, in particular, was a terrific upgrade and
they are both quite compact.

Duly noted for the short list / price check.

How good, or not, is DAB through the external DAC?

The limiting factor is usually bitrate, not the DAC, so still worse than
FM.

--
Jim H jh
@333
.org

Add a DAC to a cheap CD player?
 

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 17:53:14 GMT, Wally wrote:

just me wrote:

In fact, my choice would be to look for an Arcam Black Box 500 which
you should be able to pick up for £200. Leaving aside the flexible
connectivity (which you might never use) it sounds bloody marvellous.
I use it with DAB & MD and soon Freeview, although not with CD
(prefer the sound of the 8000CD's in-built DAC, but that wont really
be an issue for you). I would also keep an eye out for the Alchemist
TS-D1 or TS-D2. The latter, in particular, was a terrific upgrade and
they are both quite compact.

Duly noted for the short list / price check.

How good, or not, is DAB through the external DAC?

The limiting factor is usually bitrate, not the DAC, so still worse than
FM.

--
Jim H jh
@333
.org

Add a DAC to a cheap CD player?
 

In article , Wally
wrote:
Jim H wrote:

I suppose when I said this I should have mentioned jitter, however
it's very unlikely to be a problem with a half decent DAC, we're
talking very low data rates here.

I've seen mention of some sort of timing signal being fed back to the
transport, something to do with jitter, but I don't know how neccessary
it is. I don't get the impression that it's a universal feature.

The standard domestic links (coax and optical) are 'one way' systems with
no backwards link. However provided that the transport and DAC are working
reasonably well, I'd say this does not really matter much.


People who spend tens of thousands on 'high-end' stuff like to buy
equipment that makes jitter audiable, so that their expensive CD
player sounds different than a cheap one and they can feel superior. A
well designed DAC should not do this.

Something to do with better kit does a better job of showing up flaws,
hence, really good kit sounds crap? ;-)

I'm not stepping into that one... :-)

Not really. Go for whatever is most convenient, most likely coax.
Cable worshipers may disagree, but round here interconnects are a way
of getting signal from A to B,

I was wondering if coax is susceptible to electronic noise. I notice
that my player has a phono socket for the coax output - is a standard
phono cable okay for this?

In principle, coax may pick up electronics noise, and might provide an
unintended path for something like an earth loop. In practice, I can't say
I've ever noticed any difference between coax S/PDIF and optical. They both
work fine in my experience. Co-ax has the advantage of being cheap and easy
to make up yourself.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Add a DAC to a cheap CD player?
 

In article , Wally
wrote:
Jim H wrote:

I suppose when I said this I should have mentioned jitter, however
it's very unlikely to be a problem with a half decent DAC, we're
talking very low data rates here.

I've seen mention of some sort of timing signal being fed back to the
transport, something to do with jitter, but I don't know how neccessary
it is. I don't get the impression that it's a universal feature.

The standard domestic links (coax and optical) are 'one way' systems with
no backwards link. However provided that the transport and DAC are working
reasonably well, I'd say this does not really matter much.


People who spend tens of thousands on 'high-end' stuff like to buy
equipment that makes jitter audiable, so that their expensive CD
player sounds different than a cheap one and they can feel superior. A
well designed DAC should not do this.

Something to do with better kit does a better job of showing up flaws,
hence, really good kit sounds crap? ;-)

I'm not stepping into that one... :-)

Not really. Go for whatever is most convenient, most likely coax.
Cable worshipers may disagree, but round here interconnects are a way
of getting signal from A to B,

I was wondering if coax is susceptible to electronic noise. I notice
that my player has a phono socket for the coax output - is a standard
phono cable okay for this?

In principle, coax may pick up electronics noise, and might provide an
unintended path for something like an earth loop. In practice, I can't say
I've ever noticed any difference between coax S/PDIF and optical. They both
work fine in my experience. Co-ax has the advantage of being cheap and easy
to make up yourself.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Add a DAC to a cheap CD player?
 

People who spend tens of thousands on 'high-end' stuff like to buy
equipment that makes jitter audiable, so that their expensive CD
player sounds different than a cheap one and they can feel superior.
A well designed DAC should not do this.

Something to do with better kit does a better job of showing up flaws,
hence, really good kit sounds crap? ;-)

In many places better equipment should show the flaws, for example a good
quality TFT monitor shows mpeg arifacts on DVDs that aren't obvious on a
normal TV.
But designing the equipment specially so that imperfections stand out is a
different thing altogether.

I was wondering if coax is susceptible to electronic noise. I notice
that my
player has a phono socket for the coax output - is a standard phono cable
okay for this?

Likely be fine, although technically it should be 75ohm coax, like TV
aerial cable. I wouldn't worry about noise, coax is pretty good at
rejecting it and we're talking about tiny bandwidth.

Indeed. Get a few reviews, avoid the idiot high end and you'll be
fine.

I'll see if I can sort out a short list of stuff that goes for under
200. I
see there are a few units that go for as little as 50-75 quid.


--
Jim H jh
@333
.org