Biwiring
 

Ian Molton wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 -0000
"RJH" wrote:

bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal
back to the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the
sound quality of the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

Well, of course, using seperate feeds from seperate amps can
eliminate the possibility of a ****ty amp with high impedance outputs
or an inadequate PSU which fouls up the bass fouling up the treble...

Of course, if you dont have a ****ty amp, then its bull**** ;-)

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them recommend
biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother if
they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

--
MrBitsy

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:23:22 -0000
"MrBitsy" wrote:

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them
recommend biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

This should sort the logic aspect:

Highstreet retailers sell speaker cables, its VERY profitable.

High street retailers like it when companies recommend bi-wiring as a
result

Therefore they buy and recommend people to buy gear that requires
bi-wiring.

Thus if Quad didnt recommend it, they would lose out as high street
sellers wouldnt recommend their gear.

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:23:22 -0000
"MrBitsy" wrote:

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them
recommend biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

This should sort the logic aspect:

Highstreet retailers sell speaker cables, its VERY profitable.

High street retailers like it when companies recommend bi-wiring as a
result

Therefore they buy and recommend people to buy gear that requires
bi-wiring.

Thus if Quad didnt recommend it, they would lose out as high street
sellers wouldnt recommend their gear.

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:40:56 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:23:22 -0000
"MrBitsy" wrote:

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them
recommend biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

This should sort the logic aspect:

Highstreet retailers sell speaker cables, its VERY profitable.

High street retailers like it when companies recommend bi-wiring as a
result

Therefore they buy and recommend people to buy gear that requires
bi-wiring.

Thus if Quad didnt recommend it, they would lose out as high street
sellers wouldnt recommend their gear.

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

You say the sound quality won't decrease, but my way of thinking is
that every added cable that isn't coaxial is another opportunity for
some clown to wire it in out-of-phase.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:40:56 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:23:22 -0000
"MrBitsy" wrote:

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them
recommend biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

This should sort the logic aspect:

Highstreet retailers sell speaker cables, its VERY profitable.

High street retailers like it when companies recommend bi-wiring as a
result

Therefore they buy and recommend people to buy gear that requires
bi-wiring.

Thus if Quad didnt recommend it, they would lose out as high street
sellers wouldnt recommend their gear.

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

You say the sound quality won't decrease, but my way of thinking is
that every added cable that isn't coaxial is another opportunity for
some clown to wire it in out-of-phase.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

Biwiring
 

"RJH" wrote in message
...
Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back
to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

Rob




Heh heh! Good old Rob - we haven't had a 'Biwiring' thread here for, ooh,
let's see - must be days now!

It's really quite simple, reading those instructions has already caused to
you rethink. My suggestion is that, if you already have the necessary wire
kicking about, you try it yourself and see if it makes any difference to
you. If not, then I suggest you leave the speakers bi-wired and keep 'all
bases covered'. (Placebo Effect alone makes this the 'better' option....
:-)

Biwiring is a bit like Ghost Stories - no conclusive proof either way** so
the myths continue and have done so long enough for fair-minded people to
think 'it's gone on for so long now, there *has* to be someting in it.....'
(My take is that there is almost certainly a difference, especially if there
are poor quality or faulty components in the equation, but that it is likely
to be so far outside the audible range as be entirely academic.)

Out of interest, on the subject of bi and tri-wiring, Ruark say "Where
possible we recommend you take advantage of this facility as the only extra
cost is that of one or two extra pairs of speaker cable. etc etc." They make
*no* mention of sound quality (improvements or otherwise) whatsoever. I
think they are also just 'covering all the bases' and by implication they
would appear to not expect you to spend too much on the speaker cables, in
any case.....


** Unless *you* know different - anybody here prepared to claim that
bi-wiring produces a palpable improvement to a particular speaker/amp combo?

Biwiring
 

"RJH" wrote in message
...
Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back
to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

Rob




Heh heh! Good old Rob - we haven't had a 'Biwiring' thread here for, ooh,
let's see - must be days now!

It's really quite simple, reading those instructions has already caused to
you rethink. My suggestion is that, if you already have the necessary wire
kicking about, you try it yourself and see if it makes any difference to
you. If not, then I suggest you leave the speakers bi-wired and keep 'all
bases covered'. (Placebo Effect alone makes this the 'better' option....
:-)

Biwiring is a bit like Ghost Stories - no conclusive proof either way** so
the myths continue and have done so long enough for fair-minded people to
think 'it's gone on for so long now, there *has* to be someting in it.....'
(My take is that there is almost certainly a difference, especially if there
are poor quality or faulty components in the equation, but that it is likely
to be so far outside the audible range as be entirely academic.)

Out of interest, on the subject of bi and tri-wiring, Ruark say "Where
possible we recommend you take advantage of this facility as the only extra
cost is that of one or two extra pairs of speaker cable. etc etc." They make
*no* mention of sound quality (improvements or otherwise) whatsoever. I
think they are also just 'covering all the bases' and by implication they
would appear to not expect you to spend too much on the speaker cables, in
any case.....


** Unless *you* know different - anybody here prepared to claim that
bi-wiring produces a palpable improvement to a particular speaker/amp combo?

Biwiring
 

In article , MrBitsy
wrote:
Ian Molton wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 -0000 "RJH"
wrote:

bi-wiring "reduces or eliminates any problem caused by the bass
drivers feeding any signal back to the amplifier. This signal
intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of the midrange and
treble". Er, what?!

Well, of course, using seperate feeds from seperate amps can eliminate
the possibility of a ****ty amp with high impedance outputs or an
inadequate PSU which fouls up the bass fouling up the treble...

Of course, if you dont have a ****ty amp, then its bull**** ;-)

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them recommend
biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

I think Ian said it was "bull****" rather than "rubbish". ;-

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

They may believe it to be true. OTOH they may feel that it helps establish
their street-cred. Or there may be some other reason. Dunno. :-)

So far as I have been able to tell, bi-wiring may produce slight changes in
the overall frequency response, particularly if you use an amp with a high
output impedance and/or if the two sets of wires have noticably differing
series impedances. Beyond that, I've never personally heard any
differences, or seen any plausible scientific explanations, or seen any
measurements that support the kind of statement made by JMLab and quoted at
the start of this thread.

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

Not sure what 'logic' you mean, here, I'm afraid...

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Biwiring
 

In article , MrBitsy
wrote:
Ian Molton wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 -0000 "RJH"
wrote:

bi-wiring "reduces or eliminates any problem caused by the bass
drivers feeding any signal back to the amplifier. This signal
intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of the midrange and
treble". Er, what?!

Well, of course, using seperate feeds from seperate amps can eliminate
the possibility of a ****ty amp with high impedance outputs or an
inadequate PSU which fouls up the bass fouling up the treble...

Of course, if you dont have a ****ty amp, then its bull**** ;-)

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them recommend
biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

I think Ian said it was "bull****" rather than "rubbish". ;-

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

They may believe it to be true. OTOH they may feel that it helps establish
their street-cred. Or there may be some other reason. Dunno. :-)

So far as I have been able to tell, bi-wiring may produce slight changes in
the overall frequency response, particularly if you use an amp with a high
output impedance and/or if the two sets of wires have noticably differing
series impedances. Beyond that, I've never personally heard any
differences, or seen any plausible scientific explanations, or seen any
measurements that support the kind of statement made by JMLab and quoted at
the start of this thread.

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

Not sure what 'logic' you mean, here, I'm afraid...

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Biwiring
 

And isn't it sad when a once engineering-led company like Quad start
recommending that people spend money needlessly, with NO engineering
rationale for the advice.

Ah well, the way of the world...(goes away muttering, shaking his head).....

Serge


"RJH" wrote in message
...
Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back
to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

Rob