Biwiring
 

Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

Rob

Biwiring
 

In article , RJH
wrote:
Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous.
Anyway, something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring
"reduces or eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding
any signal back to the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils
the sound quality of the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

No. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Biwiring
 

In article , RJH
wrote:
Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous.
Anyway, something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring
"reduces or eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding
any signal back to the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils
the sound quality of the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

No. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Biwiring
 

"RJH" wrote in message



Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous.

Anyway, something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring
"reduces or eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding
any signal back to the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and
spoils the sound quality of the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

Indeed. It's too bad that someone garbaged-up some really pretty good
speakers with pseudo-scientific instructions.

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

No, it should just cause a moment of silence for the poor wretch who wrote
the instructions.

Biwiring
 

"RJH" wrote in message



Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous.

Anyway, something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring
"reduces or eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding
any signal back to the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and
spoils the sound quality of the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

Indeed. It's too bad that someone garbaged-up some really pretty good
speakers with pseudo-scientific instructions.

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

No, it should just cause a moment of silence for the poor wretch who wrote
the instructions.

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 -0000
"RJH" wrote:

bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

Well, of course, using seperate feeds from seperate amps can eliminate the possibility of a ****ty amp with high impedance outputs or an inadequate PSU which fouls up the bass fouling up the treble...

Of course, if you dont have a ****ty amp, then its bull**** ;-)

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 -0000
"RJH" wrote:

bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

Well, of course, using seperate feeds from seperate amps can eliminate the possibility of a ****ty amp with high impedance outputs or an inadequate PSU which fouls up the bass fouling up the treble...

Of course, if you dont have a ****ty amp, then its bull**** ;-)

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

Biwiring
 

In article ,
Ian Molton wrote:
Well, of course, using seperate feeds from seperate amps can eliminate
the possibility of a ****ty amp with high impedance outputs or an
inadequate PSU which fouls up the bass fouling up the treble...

If the bass/mid range was fouled up through use of a poor amp, I doubt
clean treble would be much help.

--
*For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Biwiring
 

In article ,
Ian Molton wrote:
Well, of course, using seperate feeds from seperate amps can eliminate
the possibility of a ****ty amp with high impedance outputs or an
inadequate PSU which fouls up the bass fouling up the treble...

If the bass/mid range was fouled up through use of a poor amp, I doubt
clean treble would be much help.

--
*For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

Biwiring
 

Ian Molton wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 -0000
"RJH" wrote:

bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal
back to the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the
sound quality of the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

Well, of course, using seperate feeds from seperate amps can
eliminate the possibility of a ****ty amp with high impedance outputs
or an inadequate PSU which fouls up the bass fouling up the treble...

Of course, if you dont have a ****ty amp, then its bull**** ;-)

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them recommend
biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother if
they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

--
MrBitsy

Biwiring
 

Ian Molton wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 -0000
"RJH" wrote:

bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal
back to the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the
sound quality of the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

Well, of course, using seperate feeds from seperate amps can
eliminate the possibility of a ****ty amp with high impedance outputs
or an inadequate PSU which fouls up the bass fouling up the treble...

Of course, if you dont have a ****ty amp, then its bull**** ;-)

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them recommend
biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother if
they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

--
MrBitsy

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:23:22 -0000
"MrBitsy" wrote:

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them
recommend biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

This should sort the logic aspect:

Highstreet retailers sell speaker cables, its VERY profitable.

High street retailers like it when companies recommend bi-wiring as a
result

Therefore they buy and recommend people to buy gear that requires
bi-wiring.

Thus if Quad didnt recommend it, they would lose out as high street
sellers wouldnt recommend their gear.

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:23:22 -0000
"MrBitsy" wrote:

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them
recommend biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

This should sort the logic aspect:

Highstreet retailers sell speaker cables, its VERY profitable.

High street retailers like it when companies recommend bi-wiring as a
result

Therefore they buy and recommend people to buy gear that requires
bi-wiring.

Thus if Quad didnt recommend it, they would lose out as high street
sellers wouldnt recommend their gear.

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:40:56 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:23:22 -0000
"MrBitsy" wrote:

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them
recommend biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

This should sort the logic aspect:

Highstreet retailers sell speaker cables, its VERY profitable.

High street retailers like it when companies recommend bi-wiring as a
result

Therefore they buy and recommend people to buy gear that requires
bi-wiring.

Thus if Quad didnt recommend it, they would lose out as high street
sellers wouldnt recommend their gear.

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

You say the sound quality won't decrease, but my way of thinking is
that every added cable that isn't coaxial is another opportunity for
some clown to wire it in out-of-phase.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:40:56 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:23:22 -0000
"MrBitsy" wrote:

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them
recommend biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

This should sort the logic aspect:

Highstreet retailers sell speaker cables, its VERY profitable.

High street retailers like it when companies recommend bi-wiring as a
result

Therefore they buy and recommend people to buy gear that requires
bi-wiring.

Thus if Quad didnt recommend it, they would lose out as high street
sellers wouldnt recommend their gear.

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

You say the sound quality won't decrease, but my way of thinking is
that every added cable that isn't coaxial is another opportunity for
some clown to wire it in out-of-phase.

d

_____________________________

http://www.pearce.uk.com

Biwiring
 

"RJH" wrote in message
...
Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back
to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

Rob




Heh heh! Good old Rob - we haven't had a 'Biwiring' thread here for, ooh,
let's see - must be days now!

It's really quite simple, reading those instructions has already caused to
you rethink. My suggestion is that, if you already have the necessary wire
kicking about, you try it yourself and see if it makes any difference to
you. If not, then I suggest you leave the speakers bi-wired and keep 'all
bases covered'. (Placebo Effect alone makes this the 'better' option....
:-)

Biwiring is a bit like Ghost Stories - no conclusive proof either way** so
the myths continue and have done so long enough for fair-minded people to
think 'it's gone on for so long now, there *has* to be someting in it.....'
(My take is that there is almost certainly a difference, especially if there
are poor quality or faulty components in the equation, but that it is likely
to be so far outside the audible range as be entirely academic.)

Out of interest, on the subject of bi and tri-wiring, Ruark say "Where
possible we recommend you take advantage of this facility as the only extra
cost is that of one or two extra pairs of speaker cable. etc etc." They make
*no* mention of sound quality (improvements or otherwise) whatsoever. I
think they are also just 'covering all the bases' and by implication they
would appear to not expect you to spend too much on the speaker cables, in
any case.....


** Unless *you* know different - anybody here prepared to claim that
bi-wiring produces a palpable improvement to a particular speaker/amp combo?

Biwiring
 

"RJH" wrote in message
...
Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back
to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

Rob




Heh heh! Good old Rob - we haven't had a 'Biwiring' thread here for, ooh,
let's see - must be days now!

It's really quite simple, reading those instructions has already caused to
you rethink. My suggestion is that, if you already have the necessary wire
kicking about, you try it yourself and see if it makes any difference to
you. If not, then I suggest you leave the speakers bi-wired and keep 'all
bases covered'. (Placebo Effect alone makes this the 'better' option....
:-)

Biwiring is a bit like Ghost Stories - no conclusive proof either way** so
the myths continue and have done so long enough for fair-minded people to
think 'it's gone on for so long now, there *has* to be someting in it.....'
(My take is that there is almost certainly a difference, especially if there
are poor quality or faulty components in the equation, but that it is likely
to be so far outside the audible range as be entirely academic.)

Out of interest, on the subject of bi and tri-wiring, Ruark say "Where
possible we recommend you take advantage of this facility as the only extra
cost is that of one or two extra pairs of speaker cable. etc etc." They make
*no* mention of sound quality (improvements or otherwise) whatsoever. I
think they are also just 'covering all the bases' and by implication they
would appear to not expect you to spend too much on the speaker cables, in
any case.....


** Unless *you* know different - anybody here prepared to claim that
bi-wiring produces a palpable improvement to a particular speaker/amp combo?

Biwiring
 

In article , MrBitsy
wrote:
Ian Molton wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 -0000 "RJH"
wrote:

bi-wiring "reduces or eliminates any problem caused by the bass
drivers feeding any signal back to the amplifier. This signal
intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of the midrange and
treble". Er, what?!

Well, of course, using seperate feeds from seperate amps can eliminate
the possibility of a ****ty amp with high impedance outputs or an
inadequate PSU which fouls up the bass fouling up the treble...

Of course, if you dont have a ****ty amp, then its bull**** ;-)

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them recommend
biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

I think Ian said it was "bull****" rather than "rubbish". ;-

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

They may believe it to be true. OTOH they may feel that it helps establish
their street-cred. Or there may be some other reason. Dunno. :-)

So far as I have been able to tell, bi-wiring may produce slight changes in
the overall frequency response, particularly if you use an amp with a high
output impedance and/or if the two sets of wires have noticably differing
series impedances. Beyond that, I've never personally heard any
differences, or seen any plausible scientific explanations, or seen any
measurements that support the kind of statement made by JMLab and quoted at
the start of this thread.

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

Not sure what 'logic' you mean, here, I'm afraid...

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Biwiring
 

In article , MrBitsy
wrote:
Ian Molton wrote:
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 -0000 "RJH"
wrote:

bi-wiring "reduces or eliminates any problem caused by the bass
drivers feeding any signal back to the amplifier. This signal
intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of the midrange and
treble". Er, what?!

Well, of course, using seperate feeds from seperate amps can eliminate
the possibility of a ****ty amp with high impedance outputs or an
inadequate PSU which fouls up the bass fouling up the treble...

Of course, if you dont have a ****ty amp, then its bull**** ;-)

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them recommend
biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

I think Ian said it was "bull****" rather than "rubbish". ;-

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

They may believe it to be true. OTOH they may feel that it helps establish
their street-cred. Or there may be some other reason. Dunno. :-)

So far as I have been able to tell, bi-wiring may produce slight changes in
the overall frequency response, particularly if you use an amp with a high
output impedance and/or if the two sets of wires have noticably differing
series impedances. Beyond that, I've never personally heard any
differences, or seen any plausible scientific explanations, or seen any
measurements that support the kind of statement made by JMLab and quoted at
the start of this thread.

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

Not sure what 'logic' you mean, here, I'm afraid...

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Biwiring
 

And isn't it sad when a once engineering-led company like Quad start
recommending that people spend money needlessly, with NO engineering
rationale for the advice.

Ah well, the way of the world...(goes away muttering, shaking his head).....

Serge


"RJH" wrote in message
...
Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back
to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

Rob

Biwiring
 

And isn't it sad when a once engineering-led company like Quad start
recommending that people spend money needlessly, with NO engineering
rationale for the advice.

Ah well, the way of the world...(goes away muttering, shaking his head).....

Serge


"RJH" wrote in message
...
Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back
to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

Rob

Biwiring
 

Ian Molton wrote:



since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?


If you have bi-wired speakers a cheap way of improving
the sound is to put the jumpers back in.

--
Roger.

Biwiring
 

Ian Molton wrote:



since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?


If you have bi-wired speakers a cheap way of improving
the sound is to put the jumpers back in.

--
Roger.

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 -0000, "RJH"
wrote:

Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

No, it's just technobabble. There is a *tiny* grain of truth in it in
some circumstances, but you'll never notice any audible effect.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:40:56 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:23:22 -0000
"MrBitsy" wrote:

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them
recommend biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

This should sort the logic aspect:

Highstreet retailers sell speaker cables, its VERY profitable.

High street retailers like it when companies recommend bi-wiring as a
result

Therefore they buy and recommend people to buy gear that requires
bi-wiring.

Thus if Quad didnt recommend it, they would lose out as high street
sellers wouldnt recommend their gear.

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

Excellent synopsis! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 -0000, "RJH"
wrote:

Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

No, it's just technobabble. There is a *tiny* grain of truth in it in
some circumstances, but you'll never notice any audible effect.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:40:56 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:23:22 -0000
"MrBitsy" wrote:

I have a Roksan Kandy amp and Quad 11L speakers. Both of them
recommend biwiring - why if you say its rubbish. Why is it rubbish.

As far as I know, neither company produces speaker cable so why bother
if they don't gain?

Not suggesting your wrong but the logic does seem to be 'logical'!

This should sort the logic aspect:

Highstreet retailers sell speaker cables, its VERY profitable.

High street retailers like it when companies recommend bi-wiring as a
result

Therefore they buy and recommend people to buy gear that requires
bi-wiring.

Thus if Quad didnt recommend it, they would lose out as high street
sellers wouldnt recommend their gear.

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

Excellent synopsis! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:45:32 -0000, Keith G wrote:

** Unless *you* know different - anybody here prepared to claim that
bi-wiring produces a palpable improvement to a particular speaker/amp combo?

When I first purchased my B&W Matrix 805V monitor loudspeakers in the
mid-1990s, I used them in single wired mode for a while, leaving the
linking pieces between each set of binding posts in place. There was a
noticeable (although I never tested this under double blind conditions)
difference in sound according to whether the single wired cables were
connected to the "treble" binding posts, or the "bass" binding posts.

Eventually, I decided to purchase bi-wired cables and used the speakers
in bi-wired mode from then on. They did seem to sound more coherent
when bi-wired (with the linking pieces now removed of course), however
I concluded only that they would almost certainly have sounded as good,
or perhaps better still, if they had been properly designed with one
set of binding posts in the first place. Adding more cables and links
etc (whether those are external linking pieces, or internal added
complexity in terms of more complex connections to the crossover)
is surely likely to degrade sound rather than to enhance it.

I have now purchased a pair of ATC Active 10s and have consequentially
left such nonsense behind. Interestingly, I have recently improved
the subjective performance of these greatly (although I have not had
them long, and they were superb to begin with) by investing in a pair
of Partington Dreadnought Ultima stands, which are very heavy and inert
and position the loudspeakers at the perfect height as an added bonus.

http://www.partingtonspeakerstands.com/stand_1.htm
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=376

--
Anthony Edwards

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:45:32 -0000, Keith G wrote:

** Unless *you* know different - anybody here prepared to claim that
bi-wiring produces a palpable improvement to a particular speaker/amp combo?

When I first purchased my B&W Matrix 805V monitor loudspeakers in the
mid-1990s, I used them in single wired mode for a while, leaving the
linking pieces between each set of binding posts in place. There was a
noticeable (although I never tested this under double blind conditions)
difference in sound according to whether the single wired cables were
connected to the "treble" binding posts, or the "bass" binding posts.

Eventually, I decided to purchase bi-wired cables and used the speakers
in bi-wired mode from then on. They did seem to sound more coherent
when bi-wired (with the linking pieces now removed of course), however
I concluded only that they would almost certainly have sounded as good,
or perhaps better still, if they had been properly designed with one
set of binding posts in the first place. Adding more cables and links
etc (whether those are external linking pieces, or internal added
complexity in terms of more complex connections to the crossover)
is surely likely to degrade sound rather than to enhance it.

I have now purchased a pair of ATC Active 10s and have consequentially
left such nonsense behind. Interestingly, I have recently improved
the subjective performance of these greatly (although I have not had
them long, and they were superb to begin with) by investing in a pair
of Partington Dreadnought Ultima stands, which are very heavy and inert
and position the loudspeakers at the perfect height as an added bonus.

http://www.partingtonspeakerstands.com/stand_1.htm
http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=376

--
Anthony Edwards

Biwiring
 

"RJH" wrote in message
...
Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back
to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

Rob



People who bi-wire as a rule don't usualy think.
Therefore it will not cause anything.

Biwiring
 

"RJH" wrote in message
...
Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back
to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?

Rob



People who bi-wire as a rule don't usualy think.
Therefore it will not cause anything.

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:45:30 +0000
Don Pearce wrote:

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

You say the sound quality won't decrease, but my way of thinking is
that every added cable that isn't coaxial is another opportunity for
some clown to wire it in out-of-phase.

Not that it makes any difference to you or I ;-)

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:45:30 +0000
Don Pearce wrote:

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

You say the sound quality won't decrease, but my way of thinking is
that every added cable that isn't coaxial is another opportunity for
some clown to wire it in out-of-phase.

Not that it makes any difference to you or I ;-)

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:02:06 +0000 (UTC)
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

Excellent synopsis! :-)

My pleasure :-)

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:02:06 +0000 (UTC)
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

Excellent synopsis! :-)

My pleasure :-)

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

Biwiring
 

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:02:06 +0000 (UTC)
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

Excellent synopsis! :-)

My pleasure :-)


mmm?

Biwiring
 

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 18:02:06 +0000 (UTC)
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

since bi-wiring wont DEcrease sound quality, why NOT recommend it?

Excellent synopsis! :-)

My pleasure :-)


mmm?

Biwiring
 

"Anthony Edwards" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:45:32 -0000, Keith G wrote:

** Unless *you* know different - anybody here prepared to claim that
bi-wiring produces a palpable improvement to a particular speaker/amp
combo?

When I first purchased my B&W Matrix 805V monitor loudspeakers in the
mid-1990s, I used them in single wired mode for a while, leaving the
linking pieces between each set of binding posts in place. There was a
noticeable (although I never tested this under double blind conditions)
difference in sound according to whether the single wired cables were
connected to the "treble" binding posts, or the "bass" binding posts.


Funny you should say that, I'm always careful to use the 'bass' posts
myself - it's a 'time-alignment' thing........ :-)

Biwiring
 

"Anthony Edwards" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 14:45:32 -0000, Keith G wrote:

** Unless *you* know different - anybody here prepared to claim that
bi-wiring produces a palpable improvement to a particular speaker/amp
combo?

When I first purchased my B&W Matrix 805V monitor loudspeakers in the
mid-1990s, I used them in single wired mode for a while, leaving the
linking pieces between each set of binding posts in place. There was a
noticeable (although I never tested this under double blind conditions)
difference in sound according to whether the single wired cables were
connected to the "treble" binding posts, or the "bass" binding posts.


Funny you should say that, I'm always careful to use the 'bass' posts
myself - it's a 'time-alignment' thing........ :-)

Biwiring
 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 09:11:18 +0000, RJH wrote:

Hi - I've just bought some speakers, JMLab Chorus 715, marvellous. Anyway,
something in the setup instructions intrigued me - bi-wiring "reduces or
eliminates any problem caused by the bass drivers feeding any signal back to
the amplifier. This signal intermodulates and spoils the sound quality of
the midrange and treble". Er, what?!

I don't bother with biwiring as a rule, but should this cause a rethink?


Some say better, some say no difference, some say worse.
Try it - it's only the cost of a bit of speaker cable! Make decent stands a
priority though. Personally, I have bi-wired a (heavily modified) old pair of
Kef Codas & I *think* they sound better. That's enough for me. It may be
just in my mind, but so what?

--
Mick
http://www.nascom.info for Nascom & Gemini information
Also at http://www.mixtel.co.uk where the collection started.
Currently deserting M$ for linux... :-)