OK, I've given in to unrelenting popular demand and posted yet another
Listening Comparison.

**** simple this one, in each of the following 3 sets, which tracks sound
the better - the 01s or 02s?

(All files under 5 Mb)


http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t1-track01.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t1-track02.mp4



http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t2-track01.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t2-track02.mp4



http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t3-track01.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t3-track02.mp4

Not much in it.

Without an ABX (which I know you wouldn't care about anyway) difficult to
tell the difference.
Treble clearer on the 2s(?)

Btw, not seen an mp4 in a while! IIRC, isn't it a propietry format named
to dupe people into thinking it's the successor of mp3 (instead of mpro3)?
Maybe I've got my wires crossed.

With all this ripping maybe try this link
http://cdexos.sourceforge.net/downloads.php - dead easy little ripper that
supports the newer formats and IME gets data from scratched CDs after EAC
threw them out.


On Sun, 14 Dec 2003 21:32:56 -0000, Keith G wrote:


OK, I've given in to unrelenting popular demand and posted yet another
Listening Comparison.

**** simple this one, in each of the following 3 sets, which tracks sound
the better - the 01s or 02s?

(All files under 5 Mb)


http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t1-track01.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t1-track02.mp4



http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t2-track01.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t2-track02.mp4



http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t3-track01.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t3-track02.mp4







--
Jim H jh
@333
.org

"Jim H" wrote in message
news
Not much in it.

Without an ABX (which I know you wouldn't care about anyway)
difficult to tell the difference.
Treble clearer on the 2s(?)


I obtained a MP3 plug-in for Winamp and used it to perform the conversion of
both Mp3 and Mp4 files to .wav files. I then checked them out for time and
level matching in Adobe Audition, and found them to be good. I then spent
several hours PCABXing, and frustrated myself with a lot of "random
guessing" type scores, even though at times I felt I was reliably hearing a
difference.

Since the MP4 (AAC) format has received a lot of favorable press, and some
of this music seems like the kind of stuff that makes some MP3 encoders do
bad things, I think the time was well-spent.

I conclude that MP4 does not have a day-and-night advantage over MP3. Thanks
Keith, for the stimulus to actually do the comparison.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jim H" wrote in message
news
Not much in it.

Without an ABX (which I know you wouldn't care about anyway)
difficult to tell the difference.
Treble clearer on the 2s(?)


I obtained a MP3 plug-in for Winamp and used it to perform the conversion
of
both Mp3 and Mp4 files to .wav files. I then checked them out for time and
level matching in Adobe Audition, and found them to be good. I then spent
several hours PCABXing, and frustrated myself with a lot of "random
guessing" type scores, even though at times I felt I was reliably hearing
a
difference.

Since the MP4 (AAC) format has received a lot of favorable press, and some
of this music seems like the kind of stuff that makes some MP3 encoders do
bad things, I think the time was well-spent.

I conclude that MP4 does not have a day-and-night advantage over MP3.
Thanks
Keith, for the stimulus to actually do the comparison.





OK, difficult to ignore a constructive, helpful and useful response.

My own initial feeling (in what was ostensibly a 128 Kbps CBR/MP3 vs.
110 -150 Kbps VBR/MP4 comparison) is that the MP4s sounded a little
'fresher' (more open in the treble?), but I haven't yet had the opportunity
to do this blind (using my own Electro-Acoustic Replay Scrutinizer), where
the tracks will be selected for me in random pairs......

Anyhoo, it don't end here! This file comparison was done at the approx. 5
Mb/track mark, but as it has been recently pointed out storage is becoming
cheaper, I want to ramp this up a notch to filesizes of about 7 Mb/track
which will allow me to try MP4s with a 160 - 250 Kbps VBR and also to bring
WMA files into the equation on an equal filesize basis, so if you feel
inclined suggest a more suitable type of music (artist, band or genre) and
I'll try to get as close as I can from the somewhat limited choice of, er,
'non-analogue original' music that is available to me.....

"Keith G" wrote in message ...

My own initial feeling (in what was ostensibly a 128 Kbps CBR/MP3 vs.
110 -150 Kbps VBR/MP4 comparison) is that the MP4s sounded a little
'fresher' (more open in the treble?), but I haven't yet had the opportunity
to do this blind (using my own Electro-Acoustic Replay Scrutinizer), where
the tracks will be selected for me in random pairs......

At 128 Kbps and below, formats such as Ogg Vorbis and AAC are clearly
better than MP3, specially using a good AAC implementation such as
Apple iTunes one. At 128 Kbps and over, there's another very good
performing contender called Musepack or MPC. At high bitrates, MP3 is
not that bad, specially if compared to Ogg Vorbis, but at around 160
Kbps, Ogg Vorbis and even more AAC, tend to still be better, and MPC
is probably the best with difference. At bitrates of 200 Kbps MPC is
the winner without doubt, achieving perceptual transparency with
virtually all kind of sounds, and of the formats left, probably only
AAC is still beter than MP3.

"KikeG" wrote in message
om...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

My own initial feeling (in what was ostensibly a 128 Kbps CBR/MP3 vs.
110 -150 Kbps VBR/MP4 comparison) is that the MP4s sounded a little
'fresher' (more open in the treble?), but I haven't yet had the
opportunity
to do this blind (using my own Electro-Acoustic Replay Scrutinizer),
where
the tracks will be selected for me in random pairs......

At 128 Kbps and below, formats such as Ogg Vorbis and AAC are clearly
better than MP3, specially using a good AAC implementation such as
Apple iTunes one. At 128 Kbps and over, there's another very good
performing contender called Musepack or MPC. At high bitrates, MP3 is
not that bad, specially if compared to Ogg Vorbis, but at around 160
Kbps, Ogg Vorbis and even more AAC, tend to still be better, and MPC
is probably the best with difference. At bitrates of 200 Kbps MPC is
the winner without doubt, achieving perceptual transparency with
virtually all kind of sounds, and of the formats left, probably only
AAC is still beter than MP3.


Interesting. I've discounted MP4 for the moment on the grounds that it's a
bit of a red herring. I've also come to a bit of a conclusion on the MP3/WMA
front and have posted a couple more tracks to compare, if anyone is
interested. (Ain't like we're busy in here, or anything.....)


http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t1-track01.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t1-track02.wma

and

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t2-track01.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t2-track02.wma


I've picked music to contrast with the earlier samples and would recommend
anyone to download them and burn an audio CDR so they can be flicked about
on an ordinary CDP. If anyone has got a 'sudden death' preference, I would
be interested to hear it......

"KikeG" wrote in message
om...
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

My own initial feeling (in what was ostensibly a 128 Kbps CBR/MP3 vs.
110 -150 Kbps VBR/MP4 comparison) is that the MP4s sounded a little
'fresher' (more open in the treble?), but I haven't yet had the
opportunity
to do this blind (using my own Electro-Acoustic Replay Scrutinizer),
where
the tracks will be selected for me in random pairs......

At 128 Kbps and below, formats such as Ogg Vorbis and AAC are clearly
better than MP3, specially using a good AAC implementation such as
Apple iTunes one. At 128 Kbps and over, there's another very good
performing contender called Musepack or MPC. At high bitrates, MP3 is
not that bad, specially if compared to Ogg Vorbis, but at around 160
Kbps, Ogg Vorbis and even more AAC, tend to still be better, and MPC
is probably the best with difference. At bitrates of 200 Kbps MPC is
the winner without doubt, achieving perceptual transparency with
virtually all kind of sounds, and of the formats left, probably only
AAC is still beter than MP3.


Interesting. I've discounted MP4 for the moment on the grounds that it's a
bit of a red herring. I've also come to a bit of a conclusion on the MP3/WMA
front and have posted a couple more tracks to compare, if anyone is
interested. (Ain't like we're busy in here, or anything.....)


http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t1-track01.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t1-track02.wma

and

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t2-track01.mp3

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...t2-track02.wma


I've picked music to contrast with the earlier samples and would recommend
anyone to download them and burn an audio CDR so they can be flicked about
on an ordinary CDP. If anyone has got a 'sudden death' preference, I would
be interested to hear it......

"Keith G" wrote in message ...

My own initial feeling (in what was ostensibly a 128 Kbps CBR/MP3 vs.
110 -150 Kbps VBR/MP4 comparison) is that the MP4s sounded a little
'fresher' (more open in the treble?), but I haven't yet had the opportunity
to do this blind (using my own Electro-Acoustic Replay Scrutinizer), where
the tracks will be selected for me in random pairs......

At 128 Kbps and below, formats such as Ogg Vorbis and AAC are clearly
better than MP3, specially using a good AAC implementation such as
Apple iTunes one. At 128 Kbps and over, there's another very good
performing contender called Musepack or MPC. At high bitrates, MP3 is
not that bad, specially if compared to Ogg Vorbis, but at around 160
Kbps, Ogg Vorbis and even more AAC, tend to still be better, and MPC
is probably the best with difference. At bitrates of 200 Kbps MPC is
the winner without doubt, achieving perceptual transparency with
virtually all kind of sounds, and of the formats left, probably only
AAC is still beter than MP3.

"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"Jim H" wrote in message
news
Not much in it.

Without an ABX (which I know you wouldn't care about anyway)
difficult to tell the difference.
Treble clearer on the 2s(?)


I obtained a MP3 plug-in for Winamp and used it to perform the conversion
of
both Mp3 and Mp4 files to .wav files. I then checked them out for time and
level matching in Adobe Audition, and found them to be good. I then spent
several hours PCABXing, and frustrated myself with a lot of "random
guessing" type scores, even though at times I felt I was reliably hearing
a
difference.

Since the MP4 (AAC) format has received a lot of favorable press, and some
of this music seems like the kind of stuff that makes some MP3 encoders do
bad things, I think the time was well-spent.

I conclude that MP4 does not have a day-and-night advantage over MP3.
Thanks
Keith, for the stimulus to actually do the comparison.





OK, difficult to ignore a constructive, helpful and useful response.

My own initial feeling (in what was ostensibly a 128 Kbps CBR/MP3 vs.
110 -150 Kbps VBR/MP4 comparison) is that the MP4s sounded a little
'fresher' (more open in the treble?), but I haven't yet had the opportunity
to do this blind (using my own Electro-Acoustic Replay Scrutinizer), where
the tracks will be selected for me in random pairs......

Anyhoo, it don't end here! This file comparison was done at the approx. 5
Mb/track mark, but as it has been recently pointed out storage is becoming
cheaper, I want to ramp this up a notch to filesizes of about 7 Mb/track
which will allow me to try MP4s with a 160 - 250 Kbps VBR and also to bring
WMA files into the equation on an equal filesize basis, so if you feel
inclined suggest a more suitable type of music (artist, band or genre) and
I'll try to get as close as I can from the somewhat limited choice of, er,
'non-analogue original' music that is available to me.....

"Jim H" wrote in message
news
Not much in it.

Without an ABX (which I know you wouldn't care about anyway)
difficult to tell the difference.
Treble clearer on the 2s(?)


I obtained a MP3 plug-in for Winamp and used it to perform the conversion of
both Mp3 and Mp4 files to .wav files. I then checked them out for time and
level matching in Adobe Audition, and found them to be good. I then spent
several hours PCABXing, and frustrated myself with a lot of "random
guessing" type scores, even though at times I felt I was reliably hearing a
difference.

Since the MP4 (AAC) format has received a lot of favorable press, and some
of this music seems like the kind of stuff that makes some MP3 encoders do
bad things, I think the time was well-spent.

I conclude that MP4 does not have a day-and-night advantage over MP3. Thanks
Keith, for the stimulus to actually do the comparison.