Jim Lesurf wrote:

Or: ;-

position 4: Obtain some reliably obtained measurements, combined with some
listening tests that confirm that the kit is basically OK. Then use the
measured values to estimate their impact upon your own requirements, based
upon your own experience, situation, and taste. :-) (Can view this as a
varient upon position 1 if you like.)

Well, I would prefer a variant on that, call it 4a, combined with 3. Use
the numbers to find a short list of basically OK kit, then use listening
test in your own situation to see what works best for you. Then throw
away all the mags and spend the money on LP/CD etc...

The magazines seem to have taken to avoiding measurements as they take time
and money to produce, as well as some level of real understanding by the
reviewer.

They have apparently also decided they are incapable of explaining how
readers can make intelligent use of them. It isn't a "bigger/lower the
better" thing in many cases. It is a matter of what values may be most
suitable for some readers, but not for others. The snag is that the
reviewers have to understand this, and be able to explain it clearly for
the benefit of newer readers.


Yes thats the point I was trying to get at in 1, it doesn't matter in
the real world if a amp produces .001 or .002% THD. But I do know people
who chose kit based just on these sorts of numbers, I suspect it saves
them from the need to understand anything, and avoids waisting time
hearing the stuff.

I fear it is 'dumbing down'. The impression is that they have decided their
readers are too dim to understand, and they can't be bothered to even try
and explain. Easier to say, "I am an expert and X is better than Y, so
there."


I think a lot of people just view HiFi as another thing they should own,
You can almost see the check boxes,

HiFi (x)
Home Cinema (x)
Second Car (x)
etc.

It stuns me when I see mags like "Stuff" that is full of lists of what
people need to spend money on this month. Maybe I am just getting old, I
certainly fit the "Grumpy old men" description I saw on the TV over the
hols...

--
Nick

Hi,

In message , Jim Lesurf
writes

I fear it is 'dumbing down'. The impression is that they have decided their
readers are too dim to understand, and they can't be bothered to even try
and explain.

I think that "dumbing down" is right; however it may not be only the
reader that is 'too dim to understand'. I deal almost daily with
journalists associated with the PC press and I increasingly find that 1.
Few of them have any training as journalists and 2. Even fewer have any
real grasp of engineering. I have refused to submit several products for
review, simply because after talking with the reviewer, I found that
they did not have the technical know-how to produce a valid, meaningful
review. I get the impression that at least some of the audio press is
similar.

Easier to say, "I am an expert and X is better than Y, so
there."

Exactly; and provided they are sufficiently vague (i.e. they don't tell
any provable lies), many readers will not question their conclusions.

--
Regards,
Glenn Booth

Hi,

In message , Jim Lesurf
writes

I fear it is 'dumbing down'. The impression is that they have decided their
readers are too dim to understand, and they can't be bothered to even try
and explain.

I think that "dumbing down" is right; however it may not be only the
reader that is 'too dim to understand'. I deal almost daily with
journalists associated with the PC press and I increasingly find that 1.
Few of them have any training as journalists and 2. Even fewer have any
real grasp of engineering. I have refused to submit several products for
review, simply because after talking with the reviewer, I found that
they did not have the technical know-how to produce a valid, meaningful
review. I get the impression that at least some of the audio press is
similar.

Easier to say, "I am an expert and X is better than Y, so
there."

Exactly; and provided they are sufficiently vague (i.e. they don't tell
any provable lies), many readers will not question their conclusions.

--
Regards,
Glenn Booth

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 23:44:41 -0000, "Oliver Keating"
wrote:

Btw - what thousand pound amplifiers have a several percent distortion?

Single-ended triode amps do - and they can cost a *lot* more than
that!

P.S. Isn't competent audiophile and oxymoron ;-)

Not necessarily..................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Sat, 3 Jan 2004 23:44:41 -0000, "Oliver Keating"
wrote:

Btw - what thousand pound amplifiers have a several percent distortion?

Single-ended triode amps do - and they can cost a *lot* more than
that!

P.S. Isn't competent audiophile and oxymoron ;-)

Not necessarily..................
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Spend the money you would have spent on mags on LP/CD (your choice), or
build
your own

Nick is right on the button. Buy the Maplins catalogue for starters. Then
Morgan Jones 'Valve amplifiers' 3rd ed. or similar DIY text and off you
go.

Or just buy some concert tickets.......

Spend the money you would have spent on mags on LP/CD (your choice), or
build
your own

Nick is right on the button. Buy the Maplins catalogue for starters. Then
Morgan Jones 'Valve amplifiers' 3rd ed. or similar DIY text and off you
go.

Or just buy some concert tickets.......

Btw - what thousand pound amplifiers have a several percent distortion?

Single-ended triode amps do - and they can cost a *lot* more than
that!

But what are we measuring? Valve "distotion" is viewed as a rosie glow.
Transistor x/over or switching distortion in a poorly designed (or
over-driven) solid state amp of only a few 10ths % is unbearable!

Not all distotions are created eaqual - but they are all deviations from the
"straight wire with gain" model of the "ideal" amp.

David

Btw - what thousand pound amplifiers have a several percent distortion?

Single-ended triode amps do - and they can cost a *lot* more than
that!

But what are we measuring? Valve "distotion" is viewed as a rosie glow.
Transistor x/over or switching distortion in a poorly designed (or
over-driven) solid state amp of only a few 10ths % is unbearable!

Not all distotions are created eaqual - but they are all deviations from the
"straight wire with gain" model of the "ideal" amp.

David

David wrote:


Btw - what thousand pound amplifiers have a several percent distortion?

Single-ended triode amps do - and they can cost a *lot* more than
that!

But what are we measuring? Valve "distotion" is viewed as a rosie glow.
Transistor x/over or switching distortion in a poorly designed (or
over-driven) solid state amp of only a few 10ths % is unbearable!

Not all distotions are created eaqual - but they are all deviations from
the "straight wire with gain" model of the "ideal" amp.

David

Exactly. The thing most people forget is that *all* push pull systems are
very good a canceling even harmonic distortion (the type we don't mind/like
even) which just leaves odd harmonic distortions in the output which the
ear abhors. This may explain why some people prefer the sound of single
ended class A amplifiers which produce predominantly second harmonic
distortion. This does not mean they are accurate. Aural exciters use this
very technique.

Ian