new cd player
 

On Sun, 4 Jan 2004 17:26:02 +0000 (UTC)
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote:

To make any meaningful contribution to Hi-Fi sound ALL sub woofers should
only ever be used in a room from which every particle of air has been
removed.

Well, there's someone who's never heard a good sub..............

Never understood the 'I hate subs' mentality.

bass in any realistic sized listening room is essentially omnidirectional, and if you really want to hear / feel the subsonic stuff, you need a sub.

how different is having a sub from having an even bigger speaker cab with another even bigger drievr in it?

Ok, so many MANY subs are utter crap. doesnt mean the concept is flawed.

--
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Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

new cd player
 

In article , David
wrote:


If your enjoyment comes from accuracy to the original (and most
people can rcognise good fidelity from bad) that's one thing, and a
subwoofer can help for music that was intended to be used with one
(especially music recorded for 5.1).


Never yet heard one sound anything other than downright unpleasant

I wonder if you have heard them inappropriately used...

My suspicion is that, nowdays, many are being used for 'home cinema' by
people who have no real experience or feel for 'hi fi' as such, and for
getting 'impressive' bangs and thuds to accompany films. In such situations
I suspect I'd often agree with you that the results would be better for
*music* if the sub was off.

However in recent months I have been experimenting with a relatively
inexpensive sub with other speakers. Firstly LS3/5A's, then more recently
with ESL63's. On the basis of this I'd say that - carefully adjusted and
positioned - the sub can add quite a lot. It can give a much more realistic
sound to something like the low end of a piano, and for things like string
bass. The results seem to me to be both more pleasing, and a more
convincing reproduction of what I'd expect the actual instruments to sound
like.

FWIW I have found that a level that is a bit above what you'd expect from
nominal 'flat' with a SPL meter sounds good for most music, but that film
sound effects seem to assume you have to blow out the windows! :-) Not
sure, but I suspect my own findings may be due to a preference for older
recordings that may be low-bass 'light', so I am compensating a little for
that. The snag, of course, is that recordings vary a lot, so finding a
happy medium takes some patience. Fortunately, the bass control on Quad 34
helps a bit here as it gives room for easy and well-defined adjustments.

I set the sub up initially with an SPL meter and a test CD to get a
'reference' level to balance the sub/main and avoid a peak or dip at the
overlap. Then, in use, wound the sub down in level/cutoff, and then
advanced it over a period of some days until it just became noticable. Then
spent some more days tweaking the settings a little. This, in my view,
avoids starting off with excessive bass, and then being partly accustomed
to it, thus colouring any subsequent judgements.

The results are not perfect. I suspect I'd have to do some room eq for
that, and always am at the mercy of what was recorded. However overall, I
find the results better with sub rather than with the sub removed.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

new cd player
 

In article , David
wrote:


If your enjoyment comes from accuracy to the original (and most
people can rcognise good fidelity from bad) that's one thing, and a
subwoofer can help for music that was intended to be used with one
(especially music recorded for 5.1).


Never yet heard one sound anything other than downright unpleasant

I wonder if you have heard them inappropriately used...

My suspicion is that, nowdays, many are being used for 'home cinema' by
people who have no real experience or feel for 'hi fi' as such, and for
getting 'impressive' bangs and thuds to accompany films. In such situations
I suspect I'd often agree with you that the results would be better for
*music* if the sub was off.

However in recent months I have been experimenting with a relatively
inexpensive sub with other speakers. Firstly LS3/5A's, then more recently
with ESL63's. On the basis of this I'd say that - carefully adjusted and
positioned - the sub can add quite a lot. It can give a much more realistic
sound to something like the low end of a piano, and for things like string
bass. The results seem to me to be both more pleasing, and a more
convincing reproduction of what I'd expect the actual instruments to sound
like.

FWIW I have found that a level that is a bit above what you'd expect from
nominal 'flat' with a SPL meter sounds good for most music, but that film
sound effects seem to assume you have to blow out the windows! :-) Not
sure, but I suspect my own findings may be due to a preference for older
recordings that may be low-bass 'light', so I am compensating a little for
that. The snag, of course, is that recordings vary a lot, so finding a
happy medium takes some patience. Fortunately, the bass control on Quad 34
helps a bit here as it gives room for easy and well-defined adjustments.

I set the sub up initially with an SPL meter and a test CD to get a
'reference' level to balance the sub/main and avoid a peak or dip at the
overlap. Then, in use, wound the sub down in level/cutoff, and then
advanced it over a period of some days until it just became noticable. Then
spent some more days tweaking the settings a little. This, in my view,
avoids starting off with excessive bass, and then being partly accustomed
to it, thus colouring any subsequent judgements.

The results are not perfect. I suspect I'd have to do some room eq for
that, and always am at the mercy of what was recorded. However overall, I
find the results better with sub rather than with the sub removed.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html