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CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
"The Artist" wrote in message
... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...ic/3416437.stm -- S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t And then they'll be complaining later that illegal downloads have increased. If you had any moral qualms about downloading, this action should remove them. -- Tumbleweed Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...ic/3416437.stm
And then they'll be complaining later that illegal downloads have increased. If you had any moral qualms about downloading, this action should remove them. The record industry has the nerve to complain that sales are in decline! I can imagine the BPI are acting on pressure from record companies acting to defend the larger, better established, local retailers from the competition - "our sales are down because of those evil foreign Internet dealers" - not because their operations are inefficient, old-fashioned, expensive and undesirable. I thought that an open market was a healthy market - how naive. We can privatise our utilities and natural monopolies so that anyone from any land can own them, but not import music from beyond Europe without a surcharge. Companies like Sony (random example, applies here) wish to impose their own global standards (CD) and yet control the availabilty of software through methods such as regional coding (different random example). They drive their electronics business with propreitory new technologies (eg SACD - another random example), expect us all to clammer to buy yet another copy of some of the most over-played and/or dullest music ever recorded, prevent us from legitimately making back-ups for in-car listening and such with anti-piracy measures that have no effect on high-level pirates but damage the pleasure of legal home listening and will not support any artist for more time then it takes to make a quick buck from their 11 year old fans before moving on to some other wannabe. Now pricing cartels are being imposed and anyone who wishes to offer UK consumers an alternative is forced to withdraw or increase prices. **** them all, they don't deserve our money. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
.. . "The Artist" wrote in message ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...ic/3416437.stm And then they'll be complaining later that illegal downloads have increased. If you had any moral qualms about downloading, this action should remove them. An intriguing point of view - can you explain why? I'd quite like a Porsche Boxster, but don't want to pay £31,450 for it - after all, there can't be more than a couple of grand's worth of materials in it - would it be OK to steal one of those, too? I'm not saying that the BPI approach is right, but CDs are luxury goods, and so, presumably, there is an least an element of "opportunity pricing." They can't really have a "value for money" as you're buying something intangible (although I think they're cheap compared with concerts, trips to the cinema, days out, etc.). Surely the approach of most right-thinking people who don't want to pay for luxury goods would be to go without, rather than to steal? Andrew |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:31:50 -0000
"Andrew Virnuls" wrote: (although I think they're cheap compared with concerts, trips to the cinema, days out, etc.). In northwich I could go to the cinema *ten* times for the same as it costs me for a third-rate ****ty mastered DVD. (most titles hit the market at about 29.99 and it costs 3.00 to get into my local cinema.) -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
"Ian Molton" wrote in message
... On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:31:50 -0000 "Andrew Virnuls" wrote: (although I think they're cheap compared with concerts, trips to the cinema, days out, etc.). In northwich I could go to the cinema *ten* times for the same as it costs me for a third-rate ****ty mastered DVD. (most titles hit the market at about 29.99 and it costs 3.00 to get into my local cinema.) But for your £3 you're only buying the right to see the film once, whereas with the DVD you're buying the right to watch it as many times as you like. Plus, since I bought my DVD player and surround-sound system, I'm always disappointed by the quality of the picture and the sound when I go the cinema! Andrew |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 00:27:50 -0000
"Andrew Virnuls" wrote: In northwich I could go to the cinema *ten* times for the same as it costs me for a third-rate ****ty mastered DVD. (most titles hit the market at about 29.99 and it costs 3.00 to get into my local cinema.) But for your _3 you're only buying the right to see the film once, whereas with the DVD you're buying the right to watch it as many times as you like. On a HUUUGE screen with a good soundsystem (good != hifi in this case bnut nontheless...) and for my _30 I could see it 10 times, not once. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:54:41 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 23:31:50 -0000 "Andrew Virnuls" wrote: (although I think they're cheap compared with concerts, trips to the cinema, days out, etc.). In northwich I could go to the cinema *ten* times for the same as it costs me for a third-rate ****ty mastered DVD. Whereas at the cinema you get one shot to see a ****ty fifth-generation print, and listen to lots of yapping, rustling and mobile phones................ (most titles hit the market at about 29.99 and it costs 3.00 to get into my local cinema.) You're buying your DVDs at the wrong shop! -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 00:47:30 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote: (most titles hit the market at about 29.99 and it costs 3.00 to get into my local cinema.) Well even I didn't think you'd be dumb enough to pay 30 quid for your average DVD. Most of mine cost about 12 quid. If you want the new releases thats what you pay. as it happens, I get my films from the bargain bucket. I dont think I've payed 8ukp for any of them. then again, you get what you pay for - the bargain bucket ones are factory seconds or ones people have returned (albeit woring). I picked up 'Lost in space' for 4.99 the other day, and had to argue with customer service because the disc had little scratches (evidently had been used) and the box was shabby. as the disc plays, I was happy wenough to take it but I insisted they replace the box (ie. swap the case inserts with a better box). but I dont go to 'bargain bucket' cinema screenings, so I wont compare them to bargain bucket DVDs. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 08:29:53 +0000 (UTC)
(Stewart Pinkerton) wrote: (most titles hit the market at about 29.99 and it costs 3.00 to get into my local cinema.) You're buying your DVDs at the wrong shop! I wont buy em at that price. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:31:38 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote: Well even I didn't think you'd be dumb enough to pay 30 quid for your average DVD. Most of mine cost about 12 quid. If you want the new releases thats what you pay. ********. I just got Underworld, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen for 11.49 each. Not pirates, they were official releases. Dunno about underworld, but LoEG has been out for ages now. Besides thats still about 8 ukp overpriced (theiving *******s can make these things for pennies...) as it happens, I get my films from the bargain bucket. I dont think I've payed 8ukp for any of them. So why moan about paying 30 quid then? **** me you don't half bull**** don't you? I said *IF* you want the new releases. then again, you get what you pay for - the bargain bucket ones are factory seconds or ones people have returned (albeit woring). Yes you do, but you obviously don't know how to do it properly. Do share then. I picked up 'Lost in space' for 4.99 the other day, and had to argue with customer service because the disc had little scratches (evidently had been used) and the box was shabby. Which was 4.99 more than it cost me for Lost In Space. So you did what, put it in your pocket and walked off? Who's talking about bargain bins? Er, me. cant you read? You can really be a ****wit at times. not as bad as being like you. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
Tumbleweed wrote:
"The Artist" wrote in message ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...ic/3416437.stm -- S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t And then they'll be complaining later that illegal downloads have increased. If you had any moral qualms about downloading, this action should remove them. What a bloody stupid settlement. How can it infringe copyright to sell a CD originaly intended for sale in another country. Has the world gone bonkers? Ian |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:32:58 +0000, Ian Bell
wrote: Tumbleweed wrote: "The Artist" wrote in message ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...ic/3416437.stm -- S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t And then they'll be complaining later that illegal downloads have increased. If you had any moral qualms about downloading, this action should remove them. What a bloody stupid settlement. How can it infringe copyright to sell a CD originaly intended for sale in another country. It can, though, cause problems when royalty and publishing deals are made on a country-by-country basis, and also when suppliers apply dubious practices to circumvent import duty requirements. The BPI has acted entirely within EU law here ... and, bonkers as it may seem that getting a CD delivered by airmail from the far east is cheaper than buying locally, its still no possible justification for copyright theft in the form of illicit PtoP sharing or downloading. Julian -- Julian Fowler julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 10:06:40 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote: Dunno about underworld, but LoEG has been out for ages now. Besides thats still about 8 ukp overpriced (theiving *******s can make these things for pennies...) WTF are you talking about, LXG isn't available in this country yet, it's not due for release until 16th Feb. I meant the *film* which has been out since last year. I didnt actually look to see if it was released, I had assumed it would be by now. What planet are you from? 3 quid for a new release, you are surely the tightest ****er I've ever come across. I can burn my own *DVD*s for less than half that, complete with case and printed insert / cover. (if I wanted to). They can manufacture them for a tiny fraction of that even. I wouldnt mind betteing they have approaching 10000% markup on a full price release. Which is totally erroneous. No-one need pay 30 quid for a single film. Jeez I've just paid 20 quid for the season 2 Futurama boxset. Thats 39.99 in tescos. I don't think you even realise you are talking total ********. Just because you *can* find them cheaper doesnt detract from the fact that they commonly sell for FAR more. So you did what, put it in your pocket and walked off? Nope, I leave that sort of thing to people like you. I've never stolen anything from a store before. I've walked out with things I havent paid for, but I go back. Once I've even walked back into town from my house to do so. I got it free with my first DVD player. Thats a laughable counter to the argument. I was talking about BUYING DVDs not getting a freebie with something else. Who's talking about bargain bins? Er, me. cant you read? You equated my comment with getting them out of bargain bins. I'm talking about brand new releases. From where? some dodgy importer? -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:47:27 +0000
Ronnie McKinley wrote: In uk.rec.audio Ian Molton wrote: In northwich I could go to the cinema *ten* times for the same as it costs me for a third-rate ****ty mastered DVD. Only if you don't buy the popcorn and a large coke. I dont buy food from the cinema. Thats what large jackets are for ;-) Take some sandwiches and a 2 Ltr bottle of coke. much cheaper. (most titles hit the market at about 29.99 and it costs 3.00 to get into my local cinema.) Try costing a night out at the local flicks for the average family, admission, sweets, popcorn, drinks and maybe a meal at the local hamburger dump afterwards. All that bloody munching. It'd be cheaper to buy two DVD copies, not at 29.99 of course, which is just plain stupid. I don't know anyone who pays 29.99 for DVDs. Admission would be 9ukp. drinks and snacks from kwik-save (across the road) would be about 3ukp for everyone, with some left over. I make that about 12ukp. Still 1/2 the price of many DVDs. Your argument is a lot better that Kurts though ;-) Besides, many MANY films dont look as good on a TV size screen, and DVDs look ****e on a big (like projection) screen anyway, if you're lucky enough to have one. so thats two trips to the cinema for the whole family vs one or two DVDs (only two, even at Kurts prices). I dunno about you but I have only watched most of my DVDs twice, maybe 3 times. I use them when guests are round, or the odd night in. They just dont seem like good value to me (except I buy mine evry cheap 'cos they're seconds or end-of-line at tescos). -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:46:01 +0000
Ronnie McKinley wrote: Take some sandwiches and a 2 Ltr bottle of coke. much cheaper. Yea, so much for the family night out and the cinema experience. If we want popcorn, we can make it at home. its fresher, and we can make it to taste. Our family isnt hooked on the fast food, um, experience, in any case. Anyways, what's the size of an average family in Northwich? Dunno. I know a number of 5 member ones but a similar number of 3 member ones. I make that about 12ukp. Still 1/2 the price of many DVDs. Your argument is a lot better that Kurts though ;-) Kurt is right, you're a miserable tight f*cker. I would hate you to be my Dad :) Hey dont knock being tight. I got a 28" TV for nothing a while back. it had been tossed out under 2 weeks old (still smelled of plastic). It had been rained on but otherwise was cosmetically perfect. I quick application of the soldering iron and a smidge of flux/fresh solder to the v-scan coil connector on the mobo fixed it permanently. btw fix your newsreader, it's bloody awful. I have to be fair, the formatting isnt sylpheeds fault. I need to send some stuff unformatted, and I keep forgetting to turn auto-linewrap back on. If you want to bash sylpheed, take a good laugh at how long it takes to sort the displaylists. A BBC micro could do the job faster. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:20:51 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote: I meant the *film* which has been out since last year. I didnt actually look to see if it was released, I had assumed it would be by now. I was wondering when your next disingenuos statement would arrive. We were talking about DVDs, not films. I presume that you are well aquainted with the delay that is normal between a film's theatrical release and the resultant DVD. Just surprised how long its taken this one, especially as it wasnt that great anyhow. I can burn my own *DVD*s for less than half that, complete with case and printed insert / cover. (if I wanted to). They can manufacture them for a tiny fraction of that even. I wouldnt mind betteing they have approaching 10000% markup on a full price release. That is the manufacturing costs of the DVD media, not the film itself. Very true. but I note you didnt disagree with my quoted ~10000% markup estimate... A film has to gross at least 4 times its budget before it is classed as being in profit. Any *good* film will make its money at the box office. A good number of crap ones do too. Dont tell me that dvds need to make 10-30ukp profit to keep the poor people in hollywood in business. I consider 10 to 12 quid a reasonable price for a new release, espcially with the value added features that are on the DVDs these days. What? The people that make these films dont exactly live in two-up two-downs, and I dont just mean the actors/actresses. As to the 'value added', yes, some are really good, but 90% odd are just lame interviews (usually badly dubbed/edited) and a copy of the theatrical trailer. big whoop. BTW I'm currently involved (albeit remotely) in the production of a new film and I am starting to learn a lot about film production that I never knew or realised. As I result I fully understand why your above comment is one of a tight fisted know nothing. You dont need to know anything about film production when you realise the better (talented or known, you choose) actors actually park BOEING 707s in their backyard (alongside their lear-jet). Someones making BIG money on these things. if you think its from the DVD sales you're kidding yourself. Thats 39.99 in tescos. So? Most new releases in ASDA are 14.87 which puts your 30 quid statement into the bollix bin. Now whos disengenious? We were talking about the *box set* of futurama, not just single disc releases. Given your propensity for being a skinflint I would have thought that you would know where all the deals are, or are you too busy getting avis from p2p? I download ALL the movies I want, initially. there is *no way* I was going to buy LoTR disc 1, 2, and 3 seperately, only to find the 'special edition box set' released a couple of months later. I'd have been really ****ed if I bought the matrix on DVD for example - the picture quality is attrocious. So you have stolen from places other than stores then? Cant really say no as I download stuff from p2p. But if they would charge reasonable prices I'd buy the originals gladly. I suspect I buy far more DVDs than you so don't ****ing lecture me you arrogant little sprog. probably. I dont regard a huge number of films as worth owning on any media. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:47:48 +0000
Ronnie McKinley wrote: Season box-sets of Futurama can be bought online at Amazon for between 21.99 - 23 UKP - list price is quoted at 39.99 but who pays list price these days? How do you justify the price being that high even though? theres about 10ukp worth of material AND shipping in a 5 disc set *at most* (and thats a generous estimate) so thats easily 200% profit. its not like DVD sales paid for futurama after all... -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 16:34:49 +0000
Ronnie McKinley wrote: If we want popcorn, we can make it at home. its fresher, and we can make it to taste. You make (free) popcorn at home and then carry it in your anorak pocket to the movie house - along with the sandwiches and coke? - ah!! there's more than one anorak involved? no. we take the coke and sandwiches/sweets/crisps/whatever. if we MUST have popcorn we buy it but not very often. We often make popcorn *at home to eat at home* though. Our family isnt hooked on the fast food, um, experience, in any case. Hooked?? who is talking about being hooked. I or my family aren't the Mickey McD connoisseur but we sure have eaten such things, and so far none of us have become addicted. You seem to be having difficulty with a family night out and the cinema experience. Are you an orphan? We've eaten at McDs. we dont really have a choice for burgers in town since we moved anyhow, as there isnt anything but the McD. Not even a BK. You sound like a bit of a plonker, to me. I, to be honest dont care what you think of me. What does matter to me is that I dont do anything outwardly offensive. I put my rubbish in bins, I pick up after my kids if they drop stuff and teach them not to. I tip workers who do a good job (eg. waiters etc.) and shop from local merchants where I can afford it. Yea, well then, a family night out (even using your miserable figures) could be somewhere between 12-20 quid. More (most likely) if they aren't miserable *******s. Didnt I say that? oh yes, right... I make that about 12ukp. ....there. Still 1/2 the price of many DVDs. Only 1/2 the price based on your ridiculously silly 29.99 figure. Which was the RRP and list price in tescos. btw. Do you meet the rest of the family inside the theatre? :) eh? -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 14:31:16 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 12:47:27 +0000 Ronnie McKinley wrote: In uk.rec.audio Ian Molton wrote: In northwich I could go to the cinema *ten* times for the same as it costs me for a third-rate ****ty mastered DVD. Only if you don't buy the popcorn and a large coke. I dont buy food from the cinema. Thats what large jackets are for ;-) I might have know that you're as crooked as you are stupid and ignorant........... Besides, many MANY films dont look as good on a TV size screen, and DVDs look ****e on a big (like projection) screen anyway, if you're lucky enough to have one. They look as good as most of the prints you'll see at your local fleapit - and that's without all the yapping and bag-scrunching. -- Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:44:26 +0000
Ronnie McKinley wrote: How do you justify the price being that high even though? Even though what? I'm justifying anything. snip If you're going to pick up my errors you could try to not make mistakes in your comment... -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
"Andrew Virnuls" wrote in message ... "Tumbleweed" wrote in message .. . "The Artist" wrote in message ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...ic/3416437.stm And then they'll be complaining later that illegal downloads have increased. If you had any moral qualms about downloading, this action should remove them. An intriguing point of view - can you explain why? I'd quite like a Porsche Boxster, but don't want to pay £31,450 for it - after all, there can't be more than a couple of grand's worth of materials in it - would it be OK to steal one of those, too? Crap analogy, but lets run with it... its the equivalent of Porche physically preventing me buying a Boxter from (say) Hong Kong where they are (say) half the price, even though they can apparently sell at a profit in Hong Kong and their dealer in Hong Kong is very happy to sell me one. Also, lets be quite clear, I am *not* stealing their product by downloading it, because I was going to *buy it* from Hong Kong, and Hell Will Freeze Over before I buy it in the UK, so they have lost nothing at all, they dont get a sale in the UK to me in either case. I'm not saying that the BPI approach is right, but CDs are luxury goods, and so, presumably, there is an least an element of "opportunity pricing." They can't really have a "value for money" as you're buying something intangible (although I think they're cheap compared with concerts, trips to the cinema, days out, etc.). I really dont care. I want to take advantage of global pricing, just as these companies do themselves when it comes to sourcing supplies and jobs. All I ask is the same global supply opportunities the companies have. Thats all I expect, a fair playing field. Surely the approach of most right-thinking people who don't want to pay for luxury goods would be to go without, rather than to steal? Companies clamour for global trade. And then when they get it, try and stop it for their consumers!! They don't have any qualms about shutting down jobs in this country in order to ship them somewhere cheaper, yet when I try and buy from one of those cheaper places, they want to stop me. Its nothing short of outrageous. Surely the approach of most right-thinking people would be that if the company can manufacture its products wherever it wants, I can buy them wherever I want? -- Tumbleweed Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:44:57 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote: Why do you always equate raw materials with final cost? Nothing you buy has a price that relates to raw materials. I dont equate it, but I do consider some things to be a 'rip off'. like mobile phone fascias at 9.99ukp a pop, or PCs at 1200ukp in PC world, or BK burger meals at over 4.00ukp with only a pathetic half-regular-from-5-years-back sized milkshake, etc. 99% of CDs on the market fall into the same category. Some are genuinely rare or hard to obtain recordings, and worth it, but the rest are mass manufactured garbage. Not to mention that many new ones explicitly remove (or try to) your right to back them up... You obviously aren't used to buying things. Heh. very funny. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
"Julian Fowler" wrote in message
... On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 13:32:58 +0000, Ian Bell wrote: Tumbleweed wrote: "The Artist" wrote in message ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertain...ic/3416437.stm -- S i g n a l @ l i n e o n e . n e t And then they'll be complaining later that illegal downloads have increased. If you had any moral qualms about downloading, this action should remove them. What a bloody stupid settlement. How can it infringe copyright to sell a CD originaly intended for sale in another country. It can, though, cause problems when royalty and publishing deals are made on a country-by-country basis, and also when suppliers apply dubious practices to circumvent import duty requirements. The BPI has acted entirely within EU law here ... and, bonkers as it may seem that getting a CD delivered by airmail from the far east is cheaper than buying locally, its still no possible justification for copyright theft in the form of illicit PtoP sharing or downloading. Julian Please explain to me what they lose if I download something I would have bought in Hong Kong and will not buy in the UK. -- Tumbleweed Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to newsgroups) |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:39:18 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote: It was just an example of a newly released film, in line with your total boolox about paying 30 quid for a movie. Not a very good example as you bought it from overseas before it was even released in this country (so you couldnt have known its RRP here). Out of interest, what region was the disc? Very true. but I note you didnt disagree with my quoted ~10000% markup estimate... Markup of what? The raw materials? How much do you think the raw materials of your precious BB3 cost? Probably 100ukp for someone like me to buy from RS or so, and given Arcam dont sell massive numbers, probably about 75ukp to them. I'd probably pay 200ukp for a new DAC (if any good ones were available at that price, but even if I could afford a four and a half grand DAC I wouldnt buy it because I KNOW the cost of the parts is far less, and the 'value' of the thing is NOT proportionally better than a 2nd hand DAC of good quality. Based on my DBB3 purchase, and what I was *prepared* to spend on it, therefore, I'd say I would allow 100ukp for the design and production costs (per unit) on something like a DAC. and yes, thats about 200% markup, or 'profit' per unit. But a DAC is more difficult to design than a f*cking CD. Most films, good or bad do NOT make their money at the box office. A large proprotion of films do not make profit at all. Most films that go into profit (eventually) do so with merchandising and the home market. I had meant to say will break even at the box office (at least). yes, merchandising is massive. But still, Im not sure I would see value in a film that relied purely on its merchandising to turn a profit. (certain specialist type films excepted). Unlike you I don't expect to get everything for nothing. I'm guessing you live at home with your parents. Nope. I live with my partner and three kids. Away from my parents. As to the 'value added', yes, some are really good, but 90% odd are just lame interviews (usually badly dubbed/edited) and a copy of the theatrical trailer. big whoop. Value added over the VHS equivalents I meant, More backpeadalling... and still I disagree. the VHSes used to have trailers for other films on, at least some of which were worth the watch. Far more entertaining than a crap badly edited 'interview' that doesnt tell you anything... the average price of DVDs are very close to the (relative to inflation) prices paid for sell through VHS in the early years. Despite the fact DVDs cost FAR less to produce. (I bet you dont have a (good) answer for that one...) You dont need to know anything about film production when you realise the better (talented or known, you choose) actors actually park BOEING 707s in their backyard (alongside their lear-jet). As I said above, they are in the minority. Are you really naive enough to think that is how all people in film production behave? Of course not, but how many films do actors like that do (that actually made the money, not all the little stuff they did when no-one knew about them)? maybe 10 films? so, one person, after only 10 or so productions, has siphoned off enough to own TWO jets and live next to their own private runway, in a MASSIVE house with pots of cash? If the other people involved inthe production allowed that to happen they *deserve* what they get. I recon LoTR proved how well you can do without big names. Now whos disengenious? We were talking about the *box set* of futurama, not just single disc releases. Which was 20 quid. 39.99 in tescos. You started off this subthread by saying most people pay 30 quid for new releases, I said most new releases cost that much. I have no idea how many people are daft enough to buy them at those prices. I download ALL the movies I want, initially. there is *no way* I was going to buy LoTR disc 1, 2, and 3 seperately, only to find the 'special edition box set' released a couple of months later. If you already had 1,2 and 3 why would you want the special box set? As you well know, special or 2nd editions almost always have either more video, better sound, better video, more features (in the case of LoTR, probably worth having), or any combination of the above. What was it I was saying about you having the upgrade bug in that other thread? I thought it was clear I didnt have the upgrade bug, having not bought the original version... Cant really say no as I download stuff from p2p. But if they would charge reasonable prices I'd buy the originals gladly. The problem is you have no idea what reasonable is. You just want the lowest prce possible. The two aren't the same thing you know. If I wanted the lowest prices possible, I'd demand CDs for 10p per disc and DVDs for about a quid. Im willing to pay 3-5UKP for a CD and 5-12ukp for a DVD (12 would be something like a set of all 3 LoTR) probably. I dont regard a huge number of films as worth owning on any media. I'll bet it doesn't stop you downloading them to watch them though? If you just want to see them why don't you either rent them, or buy them and sell them after. I download them, if they look like they are worth buying, I buy them (if I can find them at a reasonable price). There's a burgeoning second hand DVD market you know. Really. I wonder where Im getting those 5ukp DVDs then? Gosh, look at that, they're factory reconditioned... Anyway the upshot is you were talking **** about 30 quid DVDs. 39.99, actually, and you can check for yourself in tescos. Given your previous comments in another thread with regard to Pinky's error and apology, He hasnt apologised to me, despite being downright rude (and wrong). -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 17:53:26 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote: no. we take the coke and sandwiches/sweets/crisps/whatever. if we MUST have popcorn we buy it but not very often. We often make popcorn *at home to eat at home* though. Don't you realise that the only reason cinemas stay in business is through the popcorn and nacho stands etc. I dont care. they have no right to dictate what I eat. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:01:01 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote: btw. Do you meet the rest of the family inside the theatre? :) eh? So you don't have to pay for their tickets dummy. Oh. no, I dont do that. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
So how much did the BPI force CDWow have to raise their prices by? They seem
quite cheap to me. Kind Regards, Shane Cook. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:27:05 +0000
Ronnie McKinley wrote: Oh you buy popcorn now? - that'll push your 3 quid night out up a bit over the budget. eh? haha. Our local Warner Village multiplex Ah yes. used to live near one of them. Cost nearly three times what I pay in my local cinema. The screen was no bigger. The seats wernt more comfy. The sound system was (like most cinemas) crap. The restaurants around it were about 1.5-2x the going rate of all the others in the same type in town, too (it was slightly out of town so I guess they figured they had a captive market. Except for one, that is - the italian - which served better food than the rest anyway, and cost less. You can guess which one got our business. Didnt I say that? oh yes, right... I make that about 12ukp. ...there. You started of by saying one could go to the flicks 10 times for the price of a DVD. Which we now see is NOT always the case. not always, but then, UI didnt say *always* did I ? In the case of a NORMAL family of 5 (or even 3) that is clearly nonsense. I'd have thought I made it clear in my original post I was talking about one person. *arguably* the benefits of the DVD *approach* the cinema trip once you add more people, but then the kids are usually quieter at the flicks than at home, and they dont keep running in and out of the room either. In the case of most families buying a DVD represents good value for money. I dont think my copy of Dragonheart was better value because I have a family - its mine and no-one else wants to watch it anyhow. (it was good value though, as it only cost 6.99) in many cases, the DVD purchase would be cheaper. That is my point. Make that in *some* cases (without implying more in the way many does) and fine, sure, whatever. That doesnt mean the 30ukp releases arent extremely bad value for money. Which was the RRP and list price in tescos. Which you conveniently picked to serve your own prejudice. And Kurt didnt pick a *free* DVD to serve his argument ? It can be clearly demonstrated that most DVDs cost nowhere near 29.99. What region ? As it can be clearly demonstrated (as above) that DVDs offer reasonable value for the "normal" asking prices for the normal family. If you consider 12UKP a 'normal' asking price, yeah ok, perhaps. On the high side IMO but not too bad. We are not all sad *******s like yourself. Enough of that please. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:12:16 -0000
"Tumbleweed" wrote: Companies clamour for global trade. And then when they get it, try and stop it for their consumers!! They don't have any qualms about shutting down jobs in this country in order to ship them somewhere cheaper, yet when I try and buy from one of those cheaper places, they want to stop me. Its nothing short of outrageous. Good point, well made. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:06:27 +0000
Ronnie McKinley wrote: . I live with my partner and three kids. Away from my parents. Would you say that an average size family? My gut feeling is that its one kid on the high side where I live but yeah, not far off. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:13:32 +0000
Ronnie McKinley wrote: Oddly enough, most people dont like to sit near the front. I wonder why? Well one time I had these killer farts... (just for the humour impaired, NO, I didnt *really* fart obnoxiously in the cinema). -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 18:15:48 -0000, "Tumbleweed"
wrote: snip/ Please explain to me what they lose if I download something I would have bought in Hong Kong and will not buy in the UK. You have acquired a copyrighted, commercial recording that you haven't paid for. The fact that you wouldn't buy it makes no difference -- copyright theft is copyright theft. -- Julian Fowler julian (at) bellevue-barn (dot) org (dot) uk |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:26:12 +0000
Ronnie McKinley wrote: Minimum say 20 quid for ya all to have a night out at the flicks? .... or do you still get away with 3 quid and go on your own? 20ukp *if* we all go to McDs before or after. entrance is 3ukp per adult (1.50 kids) and currently one kid is free (well only 3 weeks old - we havent actually been in those 3 weeks anyway though). sometimes I do go alone. My other half finds LoTR too scary and the kids are too young. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:34:27 +0000
Kurt Hamster wrote: Out of interest, what region was the disc? In the case of the 2 I quoted R1 from Canada. That price I quoted included shipping BTW. Ah, so a disc that whilst many her ecould buy it, would be useless to them? compare like with like please. R2. Probably 100ukp for someone like me to buy from RS or so, and given Arcam dont sell massive numbers, probably about 75ukp to them. I rather doubt it even came close to 100 quid. I'd hazard a guess that 25 to 50 quid was closer to the mark. Maybe. But bear in mind its old now, so the (two) DACs would be perhaps 20ukp each and it has TWO custom wound transformers in it. "Value" is a purely subjective thing. It changes from person to person. You are just someone who wants the most for the least without understanding or caring about what it all entails. You know nothing about me. I do care. I wont buy some products because I know they way they are produced causes damage (to people or fish or whatever). I dont always buy the cheapest, even if I might like to. How much 'raw material' goes into whatever you produce? None whatsoever. I charge an infinite markup. ;-) A CD isn't just a little piece of plastic you know. Really. **** man, I never realised there were all these, like, waveforms on it maan... I had meant to say will break even at the box office (at least). yes, merchandising is massive. As I said most films (probably around 90%) do not break even at the box office. Probably about 90% are garbage. that fits nicely. Nope. I live with my partner and three kids. Away from my parents. So why do you act like a spoilt little brat? To get a rise out of dicks like you. featurettes cost money to create. Not very much for most, judging by the quality. a lot look like they were filmed by the directors mates 5 year old daughter. Why do you consistantly fail to separate product from media? I wasnt in that case. Pray explain why you see adverts like 'Film XXX Video: 8.99 DVD 15.99' ? same content (bar some CRAP featurettes on the DVD and some trailers on the VHS) but the cheaper one in media costs is sold for more. I recon LoTR proved how well you can do without big names. It depends on the film, a mega star would have been inappropriate for that film. Not to mention their acting would have been no better. The value of that star is therefore based on a lot more things than just acting ability. Not to me. I dont know the names of most movie stars and I dont care. If they act well, thats all that matters to me. You really have no idea how this stuff works do you? Sure I do, just different ideas of what make for value in a film. I download ALL the movies I want, initially. there is *no way* I was going to buy LoTR disc 1, 2, and 3 seperately, only to find the 'special edition box set' released a couple of months later. If you already had 1,2 and 3 why would you want the special box set? As you well know, special or 2nd editions almost always have either more video, better sound, better video, more features (in the case of LoTR, probably worth having), or any combination of the above. Not always, but as you've already decried the extras then what difference does it make to you? MOST of the time, yes (and I wrote that earlier, this is not a backtrack). In the case of LoTR, the special edition of TTT was much better. So far I have the EE of both released LOTR DVDs, I have no intention of buying a 'special box set version'. bully for you. As for the better sound, what are you going to do play them back through your DAC? I haven't heard you mention any AV amps that could benefit from that "improved sound". I play my personal films on my linux box (which is where I have the DAC and nice monitor hooked up. family films are played on the PS2 on the TV. I thought it was clear I didnt have the upgrade bug, having not bought the original version... It isn't a question of buying, it's a question of wanting. wanting the best first time round is not the same as wanting better because you bought ****. If I wanted the lowest prices possible, I'd demand CDs for 10p per disc and DVDs for about a quid. I pay 10p for CDs now. They are blank, but I accept that I get what I pay for. I wouldnt expect content on a 10p CD. that was my point. Can you read? Im willing to pay 3-5UKP for a CD and 5-12ukp for a DVD (12 would be something like a set of all 3 LoTR) I'm willing to pay 10 quid for a Ferrari but I don't expect it to happen anytime soon. Heh. I wish :) I download them, if they look like they are worth buying, I buy them (if I can find them at a reasonable price). So how many MP3s do you currently have on your premises compared to how many legitimate CDs? Incidentally I'm not expecting an honest answer. I thought we were talking about films. I have about 50 DVDs. I have about 40 divxs, about 10 of which overlapp the DVDs, and the rest I havent had time to watch yet. (I only just watched all my DVD collection this morning. As to MP3s... I have perhaps 150 CDs (not counted), so about 1500 tracks. I just counted my mp3 collection at almost 6000 tracks, 1500 of which came from my CD collection. There's a burgeoning second hand DVD market you know. Really. I wonder where Im getting those 5ukp DVDs then? Gosh, look at that, they're factory reconditioned... So why complain about the price of DVDs then? Because not all of them are priced reasonably. Anyway the upshot is you were talking **** about 30 quid DVDs. 39.99, actually, and you can check for yourself in tescos. You quoted 29.99 at the start of this. Please make your mind up. Typo. wanna make something of it ? He hasnt apologised to me, despite being downright rude (and wrong). Has it ever occurred to you that your attitude may bring out the worst in people? Probably. but being a lousy judge of social situations I settle for telling things *exactly* how I see them. I don't understand the techno-bollox you have been spouting but I did notice your back track about speaking theoretically. I never mentioned a specific device in the first place so I dont see how I could have been speaking anything but theoretically. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 19:20:40 +0000
Ronnie McKinley wrote: It can be clearly demonstrated that most DVDs cost nowhere near 29.99. What region ? You seem to have a hang-up about region. Not at all. my player on linux can play any region without even having a region unlocked player. Ever hear of multi-region DVDP? yes. not everyone has one by any stretch of the immagination. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:31:13 +0000
The Artist wrote: We've eaten at McDs. we dont really have a choice for burgers in town since we moved anyhow, as there isnt anything but the McD. Not even a BK. Did you say you moved *to* Northwich? If so, have you tried Castle? Burger's, pizza's, curries a plenty.. Not that near to castle sadly, and I dont have a car... Long way to walk for a burger :) -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:27:50 +0000
The Artist wrote: Hey dont knock being tight. I got a 28" TV for nothing a while back. it had been tossed out under 2 weeks old (still smelled of plastic). Um.. why and where do people do that? If I buy electric goods and they turn out to be faulty, my favourite technique of dealing with the situation is taking it back to the retailer for a replacement/refund. God knows. it cant have been wanted, it was jumbled in a big pile of garbage bags and had been rained on. -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:33:41 +0000
The Artist wrote: I try not to go when theres a lot of people there, and I like to sit near the front to fill my field of view. Oddly enough, most people dont like to sit near the front. There's nobody to throw peanuts at from the front.. you aim a peanut mortar over your head. no-one suspects either, which is fun :) -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
CDWOW bullied into raising CD prices by BPI
On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 20:23:50 +0000
The Artist wrote: In northwich I could go to the cinema *ten* times for the same as it costs me for a third-rate ****ty mastered DVD. Local lad eh? Only if you're local too :) Aaah yes -- the Regal. It's cheap alright. Never been very impressed by the projection quality at Regal One - seems like there are constantly pubic hairs in the gate. They must have fired that projectionist - Ive never seen that... (most titles hit the market at about 29.99 and it costs 3.00 to get into my local cinema.) I think you'll find it's gone up, mate.. unless you are getting a student discount or something? I paid 3.00 to see TRoTK. has it gone up since? I heard they werent allowed to charge more or something. BTW, you'll find DVD new releases are under £19.99 if you go to Music Zone. You know - the one slap bang in the town centre :-) Im not buying new ones unless they are something special. I can get older ones for under a fiver in tescos :) (I'll be buying LoTR special edition box set :) -- Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup. |
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