On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 15:16:55 +0000
Nutter wrote:

First off, use Coax.

Or, better, use optic fibre which is just as cheap and eliminates any possibility of transmitting electrical noise between components.

Second, any old piece of crap phono leed will do.

For short lengths. and it really *ought* to be 75 ohm, too. That said, 6m probably counts as short.

As for length I'm
guessing 6m will not be a problem as the signal is digital.

Digital pulses can be *harder* to transmit due to being square waves. just because its digital doesnt make it easier. What it does mean is that if the signal is at all recoverable at the other end it will work *perfectly* (well, close to perfectly in the case of SP/DIF...).

If you can hear a sound with no skips or breaks, then the cable is working perfectly.

Not necessarily. a DAC could well conceal small errors in the signal.


--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with ketchup.

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 16:59:49 +0000, Ian Molton wrote:

On Fri, 06 Feb 2004 15:16:55 +0000
Nutter wrote:

First off, use Coax.

Or, better, use optic fibre which is just as cheap and eliminates any possibility of transmitting electrical noise between components.

Bull****! Tell be where you can get a 10m Optical cable for £1? Which
if you go to Maplins is all it would cost you in parts to make a
perfectly suitable coax digital.


Second, any old piece of crap phono leed will do.

For short lengths. and it really *ought* to be 75 ohm, too. That said, 6m probably counts as short.

No - For any length! In fact for long lengths your only option is
Coax.

As for length I'm
guessing 6m will not be a problem as the signal is digital.

Digital pulses can be *harder* to transmit due to being square waves. just because its digital doesnt make it easier. What it does mean is that if the signal is at all recoverable at the other end it will work *perfectly* (well, close to perfectly in the case of SP/DIF...).


If you can hear a sound with no skips or breaks, then the cable is working perfectly.

Not necessarily. a DAC could well conceal small errors in the signal.

Only it you've got a crap DAC, or the errors were so small as to make
no difference to the audible sound if the errors were not 'concealed'.
In any case, I challenge anyone to do a blind test and tell the
difference between Coax and Optical.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 13:17:37 +0000
Nutter wrote:

Or, better, use optic fibre which is just as cheap and eliminates any
possibility of transmitting electrical noise between components.

Bull****! Tell be where you can get a 10m Optical cable for £1? Which
if you go to Maplins is all it would cost you in parts to make a
perfectly suitable coax digital.

You show me the parts list...

I just went to maplins and the CHEAPEST phono *connectors* (no cable)
are 49 pence each.
cheap cable of a suitable type looks to be ~50p/metre so thats 1.50
worth of cable too.

so, you're talking 2.50 worth of material and thats BEFORE you add
shipping. Do you consider your time soldering worthless?

Shipping costs 2.50 btw.

so, your 3m coax lead will cost you 5ukp.
my 3m optical lead cost me 6ukp. (dont forget it wont propagate noise,
btw)

wow was I ripped off. **** maannn....

For short lengths. and it really *ought* to be 75 ohm, too. That
said, 6m probably counts as short.

No - For any length

Haha. yeah, ok whatever.

If you can hear a sound with no skips or breaks, then the cable is
working perfectly.

Not necessarily. a DAC could well conceal small errors in the signal.

Only it you've got a crap DAC,

No, nothing to do with crap. its a design choice - some DACs conceal 'clicks' or 'pops' (whilst not altering 'good' data) because they sound nasty. others choose to play it as is because some people like to hear the errors so they can seek ultimate perfection (or whatever).

In any case, I challenge anyone to do a blind test and tell the
difference between Coax and Optical.

With a GOOD DAC I very much doubt I would be able to tell.

Optical may not be 'better', or rather, coax may be no worse - but coax CANT do better than optical. As optical is not more expensive (1ukp isnt a significant difference, and thats comparing a commercial lead to a self-build), WHY NOT use it?

--
Spyros lair: http://www.mnementh.co.uk/ |||| Maintainer: arm26 linux

Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are tasty and good with
ketchup.

Nutter wrote:

Bull****! Tell be where you can get a 10m Optical cable for £1? Which
if you go to Maplins is all it would cost you in parts to make a
perfectly suitable coax digital.

Why is it that, when someone asks a newbie question about cables, some
arsehole thinks that the most suitable solution for them is to buy raw
materials and solder one up 'because it's cheaper'? How long would it take
for a newbie to source and acquire the parts - and the tools - and make up
the cable? How many goes would it take for them to get it right? All that
****ing around to save a fiver? I once watched (and occasionally helped) a
mate build a sports car in his garage. Next time somebody asks me about what
sort of sports car he should get, I'll tell him to make his own, right?

To view it from the other perspective, someone who can solder up their own
cables isn't going to come to an audio group and ask a newbie question about
cables - they're just going to go and get on with making one.


Second, any old piece of crap phono leed will do.

For short lengths. and it really *ought* to be 75 ohm, too. That
said, 6m probably counts as short.

No - For any length!

What a load of ****. Do you know what an "ohm" is?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

In message , Wally
writes
Nutter wrote:

Bull****! Tell be where you can get a 10m Optical cable for £1? Which
if you go to Maplins is all it would cost you in parts to make a
perfectly suitable coax digital.

Why is it that, when someone asks a newbie question about cables, some
arsehole thinks that the most suitable solution for them is to buy raw
materials and solder one up 'because it's cheaper'? How long would it take
for a newbie to source and acquire the parts - and the tools - and make up
the cable? How many goes would it take for them to get it right? All that
****ing around to save a fiver? I once watched (and occasionally helped) a
mate build a sports car in his garage. Next time somebody asks me about what
sort of sports car he should get, I'll tell him to make his own, right?

To view it from the other perspective, someone who can solder up their own
cables isn't going to come to an audio group and ask a newbie question about
cables - they're just going to go and get on with making one.


Second, any old piece of crap phono leed will do.

For short lengths. and it really *ought* to be 75 ohm, too. That
said, 6m probably counts as short.

No - For any length!

What a load of ****. Do you know what an "ohm" is?


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music



I'm sure he does, but it seems you don't. The 75 or 50 Ohms is nothing
to do with resistance. It's the impedance seen by the wavefront as it
travels down the cable, and is a function of the inductance and
capacitance of each tiny segment of cable. (Calculus and all that!)

As the old saying goes: A little learning etc..


--
Chris Morriss

Chris Morriss wrote:

I'm sure he does, but it seems you don't. The 75 or 50 Ohms is
nothing to do with resistance. It's the impedance seen by the
wavefront as it travels down the cable, and is a function of the
inductance and capacitance of each tiny segment of cable. (Calculus
and all that!)

What is the unit of impedance?

What is the characteristic impedance of "any old piece of crap phono leed".


As the old saying goes: A little learning etc..

Try a little reading.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

In message , Wally
writes
Chris Morriss wrote:

I'm sure he does, but it seems you don't. The 75 or 50 Ohms is
nothing to do with resistance. It's the impedance seen by the
wavefront as it travels down the cable, and is a function of the
inductance and capacitance of each tiny segment of cable. (Calculus
and all that!)

What is the unit of impedance?

What is the characteristic impedance of "any old piece of crap phono leed".


As the old saying goes: A little learning etc..

Try a little reading.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music




True, I hadn't looked far enough back up the thread.

:-(
--
Chris Morriss

Chris Morriss wrote:

True, I hadn't looked far enough back up the thread.

It was quoted in the post you replied to, as was the idiot's claim that
any-old-crap phono lead would do "For any length!". As soon as I read the
thick **** saying that, I immediately thought of a 100m drum of the stuff.
Then I remembered that BT used to have repeaters in their early PCM systems
and found myself wondering why. Then I realised that he was spouting total
****e.


:-(

:-)


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk/music

To view it from the other perspective, someone who can solder up their own
cables isn't going to come to an audio group and ask a newbie question about
cables - they're just going to go and get on with making one.


Hi-fi users, who have been brainwashed into believing in "magic"
interconnects, may need reminding that standard components and
learning a simple skill is an excellent alternative.

Second, any old piece of crap phono leed will do.

For short lengths. and it really *ought* to be 75 ohm, too. That
said, 6m probably counts as short.

No - For any length!

What a load of ****. Do you know what an "ohm" is?

I suspect you think it's a simple measurement of resistance. Not so,
with cables carrying high-frequency signals.

On Sat, 07 Feb 2004 18:13:22 +0000, Laurence Payne
wrote:

Second, any old piece of crap phono leed will do.

For short lengths. and it really *ought* to be 75 ohm, too. That
said, 6m probably counts as short.

No - For any length!

What a load of ****. Do you know what an "ohm" is?

I suspect you think it's a simple measurement of resistance. Not so,
with cables carrying high-frequency signals.

OK, I've just read back the thread too :-)

Practically-speaking, short lengths of damp string often work.
Longer lengths need the right cable. Why would YOU say this was?