Needs to
 

OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he

See:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=8101010 615

Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too happy
about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller
appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the buyer!

Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and
auction title to trap the unwary....???

Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising!

:-)

Needs to
 

On Wed, 19 May 2004 23:08:49 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he

See:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=8101010 615

Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too happy
about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller
appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the buyer!

Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and
auction title to trap the unwary....???

Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising!

:-)


Just had a look, and I think it is rather funny. I see no ambiguity
there whatever. The whole thing is spelled out very clearly in two
lines - no small print at all. Full marks to this seller from me.

I'm sure echo910 will be very happy with his nice box.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Needs to
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 May 2004 23:08:49 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he

See:


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...7&item=8101010
615

Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too
happy
about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller
appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the
buyer!

Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and
auction title to trap the unwary....???

Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising!

:-)


Just had a look, and I think it is rather funny. I see no ambiguity
there whatever. The whole thing is spelled out very clearly in two
lines - no small print at all.


Yes, apart from the fact that the seller has studiously avoided the word
'empty' anywhere in the description.....


Full marks to this seller from me.


Not from me. I think he's a clever little cookie who achieved exactly what
he set out to do - caught an eager-beaver dummy with a Famous Name (which
ain't hard to do, check the bids - there's plenty of them out there!) and
the rest of us with a description wording where clarity makes the omission
and obfuscation difficult to spot.....


I'm sure echo910 will be very happy with his nice box.


Ooh, I don't think so - read the feedback he left! (Certainly not as happy
as the seller seems to be! :-)

An interesting example of the essence of eBay - the greedy 'grab a
bargain/make a killing' dichotomy which keeps the whole thing going,
Although,in this instance, I think the long-term effects might well be the
opposite of the immediately obvious - the publicity the seller's getting
(4,000+ more hits overnight??) is hardly likely to do his future eBay
activities any good with the dopey 'computer gamer fraternity' and poor old
echo910 (who has an excellent track record as a buyer so far, I might add)
has learned a valuable 'lesson for life' at a fairly reasonable price!

(I have to say my own interest in 'computer games' ended with a weekend lost
to 'Pogo Joe' on the kid's Commodore 64 a long time ago! :-)

Needs to
 

On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:00:27 +0100, Paul Dormer
wrote:

"Don Pearce" emitted :

OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he

See:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=8101010 615

Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too happy
about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller
appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the buyer!

Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and
auction title to trap the unwary....???

I would say it takes a certain naivety on the part of the reader, but
each line can be interpreted either way.. eg the Xbox is itself a box,
so "Xbox box" can refer to the console itself.

Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising!

:-)

Just had a look, and I think it is rather funny. I see no ambiguity
there whatever. The whole thing is spelled out very clearly in two
lines - no small print at all. Full marks to this seller from me.

A rip-off is a rip-off, no matter how dumb the victim is. The seller
has acted irresponsibly. That you praise him for his actions and
demean the victim says quite a bit about you. I'm sure your business
clients would be instilled with confidence to hear this..

I don't believe there was any attempt to rip anybody off here. The
seller described exactly what he was selling and set an appropriate
starting price. It was the subsequent buyers who hyped the thing up
and conned themselves. You can hardly hold the seller responsible for
that - although I'm sure he watched in some amusement/amazement as the
price went into orbit.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Needs to
 

On Thu, 20 May 2004 12:44:04 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 19 May 2004 23:08:49 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he

See:


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...7&item=8101010
615

Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too
happy
about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the seller
appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the
buyer!

Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description and
auction title to trap the unwary....???

Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising!

:-)


Just had a look, and I think it is rather funny. I see no ambiguity
there whatever. The whole thing is spelled out very clearly in two
lines - no small print at all.


Yes, apart from the fact that the seller has studiously avoided the word
'empty' anywhere in the description.....

Even when he gave its purpose as to pose around the town pretending
you have the real thing at home? I think that came across as rather
more than just a hint.


Full marks to this seller from me.


Not from me. I think he's a clever little cookie who achieved exactly what
he set out to do - caught an eager-beaver dummy with a Famous Name (which
ain't hard to do, check the bids - there's plenty of them out there!) and
the rest of us with a description wording where clarity makes the omission
and obfuscation difficult to spot.....

No, I don't believe he intended any such thing. I think he was
described exactly what he was selling, and was expecting either no
bids, or something barely above his starting bid.


I'm sure echo910 will be very happy with his nice box.


Ooh, I don't think so - read the feedback he left! (Certainly not as happy
as the seller seems to be! :-)

An interesting example of the essence of eBay - the greedy 'grab a
bargain/make a killing' dichotomy which keeps the whole thing going,
Although,in this instance, I think the long-term effects might well be the
opposite of the immediately obvious - the publicity the seller's getting
(4,000+ more hits overnight??) is hardly likely to do his future eBay
activities any good with the dopey 'computer gamer fraternity' and poor old
echo910 (who has an excellent track record as a buyer so far, I might add)
has learned a valuable 'lesson for life' at a fairly reasonable price!

It has been said that you can't con an honest man.

(I have to say my own interest in 'computer games' ended with a weekend lost
to 'Pogo Joe' on the kid's Commodore 64 a long time ago! :-)



My interest ended with Robot Nim, on the Video Genie.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Needs to
 

"Don Pearce" wrote

snip


Full marks to this seller from me.


Not from me. I think he's a clever little cookie who achieved exactly
what
he set out to do - caught an eager-beaver dummy with a Famous Name (which
ain't hard to do, check the bids - there's plenty of them out there!) and
the rest of us with a description wording where clarity makes the
omission
and obfuscation difficult to spot.....

No, I don't believe he intended any such thing. I think he was
described exactly what he was selling,


I disagree. He was selling an *empty box* - nowhere does he use that phrase.


and was expecting either no
bids, or something barely above his starting bid.


Where do you get that from? You are 'reading in to it' like echowotsit seems
to have done and exactly what I think the seller was hoping might happen (to
a degree).....


snip 2


It has been said that you can't con an honest man.


I would argue the opposite is more likely to be true and would offer 'you
can't kid a kidder'.......??



(I have to say my own interest in 'computer games' ended with a weekend
lost
to 'Pogo Joe' on the kid's Commodore 64 a long time ago! :-)



My interest ended with Robot Nim, on the Video Genie.


Int sinnit.

Needs to
 

On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:45:46 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote

snip


Full marks to this seller from me.


Not from me. I think he's a clever little cookie who achieved exactly
what
he set out to do - caught an eager-beaver dummy with a Famous Name (which
ain't hard to do, check the bids - there's plenty of them out there!) and
the rest of us with a description wording where clarity makes the
omission
and obfuscation difficult to spot.....

No, I don't believe he intended any such thing. I think he was
described exactly what he was selling,


I disagree. He was selling an *empty box* - nowhere does he use that phrase.


The why did he say you could use it to pretend you really had an Xbox?
That would be a strange thing to say if he was trying to make you
think you were actually getting the unit too.


and was expecting either no
bids, or something barely above his starting bid.


Where do you get that from? You are 'reading in to it' like echowotsit seems
to have done and exactly what I think the seller was hoping might happen (to
a degree).....

No, I just read it the way it was written - no "reading-in" at all.


snip 2


It has been said that you can't con an honest man.


I would argue the opposite is more likely to be true and would offer 'you
can't kid a kidder'.......??

I think the general point was that in order to get the mark to accept
the con, he must feel he is getting something for less than its true
worth.



(I have to say my own interest in 'computer games' ended with a weekend
lost
to 'Pogo Joe' on the kid's Commodore 64 a long time ago! :-)



My interest ended with Robot Nim, on the Video Genie.


Int sinnit.





Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Needs to
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:00:27 +0100, Paul Dormer
wrote:

"Don Pearce" emitted :

OK, seems I gotta be the one to post this he

See:


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...387&item=81010
10615

Some dickhead has paid £120 for an empty box (inc. p&p) and ain't too
happy
about it - check the buyer's feedback. What makes me smile is the
seller
appears to be quite comfortable with it - check his feedback to the
buyer!

Now, is it me, or is there *just enough* ambiguity in the description
and
auction title to trap the unwary....???

I would say it takes a certain naivety on the part of the reader, but
each line can be interpreted either way.. eg the Xbox is itself a box,
so "Xbox box" can refer to the console itself.

Hit rate on the auction is 55,000 and still rising!

:-)

Just had a look, and I think it is rather funny. I see no ambiguity
there whatever. The whole thing is spelled out very clearly in two
lines - no small print at all. Full marks to this seller from me.

A rip-off is a rip-off, no matter how dumb the victim is. The seller
has acted irresponsibly. That you praise him for his actions and
demean the victim says quite a bit about you. I'm sure your business
clients would be instilled with confidence to hear this..

I don't believe there was any attempt to rip anybody off here. The
seller described exactly what he was selling and set an appropriate
starting price. It was the subsequent buyers who hyped the thing up
and conned themselves. You can hardly hold the seller responsible for
that - although I'm sure he watched in some amusement/amazement as the
price went into orbit.


The feedback comments indicate to me that he isn't at all uncomfortable with
the result - makes him a little **** in my book and means (in the
*impossible* event that I should be bidding for 'game' stuff) I wouldn't bid
on his future auctions.

At the rate the hit counter's going (over 60,500 now and rising fast) this
little episode will have been seen by half the world's 'gaming' population
by teatime - matey's nice little 'result' could end up costing him dear in
the long run, if he's got more stuff to sell in the future...

.....and I hope so too - my original post was to help 'spread the word' and
increase this likelihood.

Ebay is the best thing since sliced bread for vinyl buyers (oops, wrong
group! :-) - you should see the superb, mint(ish) original pressing Brubeck
'Jazz Goes To College' (Columbia CL 566) I got this morning for a very fair
price (£7.49) from a decent seller who charged £2.20 for p&p, packaged it in
nuke-proof cardboard (double-backed) and then plastered £2.03's worth of
stamps on it to get it to me in 2 days from end of auction.....

That's what you call a result - I don't want eBay f*cked up by idiots!
(Buyers *or* sellers....!!!)

Needs to
 

On Thu, 20 May 2004 14:17:29 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

The feedback comments indicate to me that he isn't at all uncomfortable with
the result - makes him a little **** in my book and means (in the
*impossible* event that I should be bidding for 'game' stuff) I wouldn't bid
on his future auctions.

At the rate the hit counter's going (over 60,500 now and rising fast) this
little episode will have been seen by half the world's 'gaming' population
by teatime - matey's nice little 'result' could end up costing him dear in
the long run, if he's got more stuff to sell in the future...

....and I hope so too - my original post was to help 'spread the word' and
increase this likelihood.

Ebay is the best thing since sliced bread for vinyl buyers (oops, wrong
group! :-) - you should see the superb, mint(ish) original pressing Brubeck
'Jazz Goes To College' (Columbia CL 566) I got this morning for a very fair
price (£7.49) from a decent seller who charged £2.20 for p&p, packaged it in
nuke-proof cardboard (double-backed) and then plastered £2.03's worth of
stamps on it to get it to me in 2 days from end of auction.....

That's what you call a result - I don't want eBay f*cked up by idiots!
(Buyers *or* sellers....!!!)




We'll have to agree to disagree. As far as I'm concerned, he didn't
charge a high price - an idiot buyer pressed the money into his hot
and sweaty. As in all things - caveat emptor.

But no doubt you are right that this will haunt him. If it really
wasn't intended as a scam, he should have taken the longer view and
made sure the buyer understood what he was buying before he took his
money. I know I would have. But I'm a Darwinian at heart.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Needs to
 

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 20 May 2004 14:17:29 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

The feedback comments indicate to me that he isn't at all uncomfortable
with
the result - makes him a little **** in my book and means (in the
*impossible* event that I should be bidding for 'game' stuff) I wouldn't
bid
on his future auctions.

At the rate the hit counter's going (over 60,500 now and rising fast)
this
little episode will have been seen by half the world's 'gaming'
population
by teatime - matey's nice little 'result' could end up costing him dear
in
the long run, if he's got more stuff to sell in the future...

....and I hope so too - my original post was to help 'spread the word'
and
increase this likelihood.

Ebay is the best thing since sliced bread for vinyl buyers (oops, wrong
group! :-) - you should see the superb, mint(ish) original pressing
Brubeck
'Jazz Goes To College' (Columbia CL 566) I got this morning for a very
fair
price (£7.49) from a decent seller who charged £2.20 for p&p, packaged it
in
nuke-proof cardboard (double-backed) and then plastered £2.03's worth of
stamps on it to get it to me in 2 days from end of auction.....

That's what you call a result - I don't want eBay f*cked up by idiots!
(Buyers *or* sellers....!!!)




We'll have to agree to disagree.


Yes and no - see below.


As far as I'm concerned, he didn't
charge a high price - an idiot buyer pressed the money into his hot
and sweaty.


And he took it, with little or no remorse - see his poky little feedback
comment.


As in all things - caveat emptor.


Oh yes indeed. It's cost echothingy 120 sovs to learn that one - could save
him thousands later on in life in which case it will turn out to have been a
bargain. but he's going to feel ****e about it for a good while yet, I
suspect. And before I get the 'serves the greedy bleeder right' slung at me
(on or off-list) the whole point of bidding on eBay is to hope to get a
bargain, is it not? Echowotsit's feedback implies to me that he's a fairly
decent (if not excellent) eBayer and there's half a dozen other bidders who
were happily following him down the same route!


But no doubt you are right that this will haunt him. If it really
wasn't intended as a scam, he should have taken the longer view and
made sure the buyer understood what he was buying before he took his
money.


Agreed - the phrase *empty box* would have made this all right and proper.


I know I would have.


Me too, but then we've been round the block a few more times than most of
the 'gaming fraternity', I suspect....


But I'm a Darwinian at heart.


Me too - still naively believing it's up to each individual to do his best
to prevent our (seemingly inevitable) return to the sludge-pit we started
out from!

;-)