Watching the proms I was frustrated at not being able to listen through
the hi-fi whilst watching an out of sync digital broadcast! I thought it
would be nice to connect the box to the hi-fi, but the sound isn't quite
as good as my tuner. We are about to move house and thinking of updating
my Philips OnDigital box to one of the newer Freeview ones. I've noticed
that the new boxes are MUCH quicker re. text and channel changes, but
what is the sound like? I have to say my old box is quite poor on audio
quality; the normal NICAM signal sounds a lot better to me. Many of the
radio stations are atrocious quality. Are the new ones any better? I
read somewhere (Gramophone, I think) that digi boxes are let down by the
part that converts the digital signal to analogue audio out (sorry,
don't know the correct name), rather than the digital signal being the
problem. I don't know about that, because my experience of digital
broadcasting is that it is a long way from matching analogue - in this
country anyway.

If I do buy a new one, I would prefer to have phono out because I have
no plans to upgrade my amplifier for the sake of the TV box. Are there
differences between the boxes? I'm thinking of getting another Philips,
but only if the sound quality is better.

David

Forester wrote:
Watching the proms I was frustrated at not being able to listen
through the hi-fi whilst watching an out of sync digital broadcast! I
thought it would be nice to connect the box to the hi-fi, but the
sound isn't quite as good as my tuner.

I have the Pace Twin receiver. Audio wise the phonos are OK, but I run an
optical from the optical out to the optical in on my amp, you could use an
outboard DAC if you want.

Sound is excellent - better radio than DAB (although I like the convenience
of DAB and use it a lot, especially for local radio) and good picture and
hard disk recording too - you can get huge amounts of radio timeshifted on
the thing!


Would recommend it, don't rely on it for recording things of importance (as
it's a bit buggy but latest firmware is very good).


---
slightly greasy solar atoms...

In article , Forester
wrote:
Watching the proms I was frustrated at not being able to listen through
the hi-fi whilst watching an out of sync digital broadcast! I thought it
would be nice to connect the box to the hi-fi, but the sound isn't
quite as good as my tuner. We are about to move house and thinking of
updating my Philips OnDigital box to one of the newer Freeview ones.
I've noticed that the new boxes are MUCH quicker re. text and channel
changes, but what is the sound like?

Can't comment on other boxes. However I have a Nokia 221T DTTV box. This
has an S/PDIF (digital coax) output that I feed to a Meridian 263 DAC.

For normal listening I then use the output from the Meridian DAC passed
through the stereo system in the living room. The results sound pretty good
to me. Listen using a pair of Quad 988's and a relatively cheap MJ sub.

I also now have a DVD recorder, and have recorded a few concerts on that.
However in this case I currently use the scart output from the Nokia, so
this uses the Nokia's DACs, not the Meridian. It also means an extra stage
of ADC-DAC and recompression and decompression for the data in the DVD
recorder. Again, the results sound quite good to me, but not perhaps as
good as the Meridian.

The Nokia has analogue phonos for sound as well, but I think this just
feeds the same signals as via scart, so not necessarily any better than via
scart.

Hence I'd say that something like the Nokia (or some other DTTV) box
perhaps feeding an external DAC can sound pretty good.

I have to say my old box is quite poor on audio quality; the normal
NICAM signal sounds a lot better to me. Many of the radio stations are
atrocious quality. Are the new ones any better? I read somewhere
(Gramophone, I think) that digi boxes are let down by the part that
converts the digital signal to analogue audio out (sorry, don't know the
correct name), rather than the digital signal being the problem.

Dunno about DAB, but my experience of 'sound radio' via DTTV is that it
depends a lot on the station. Some use very low bitrates, and sound lousy.
Others sound quite good.

If I do buy a new one, I would prefer to have phono out because I have
no plans to upgrade my amplifier for the sake of the TV box. Are there
differences between the boxes?

Probably. :-)

My suggestion is to make sure you get one with a digital output as well as
phonos. Then you can feed the digital sound to a better DAC in due course
if you wish.

I'm thinking of getting another Philips, but only if the sound quality
is better.

Can't comment on that. Can only say that the Nokia I have seems quite
decent to me.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article ,
Forester writes
Watching the proms I was frustrated at not being able to listen through
the hi-fi whilst watching an out of sync digital broadcast! I thought it
would be nice to connect the box to the hi-fi, but the sound isn't quite
as good as my tuner. We are about to move house and thinking of updating
my Philips OnDigital box to one of the newer Freeview ones. I've noticed
that the new boxes are MUCH quicker re. text and channel changes, but
what is the sound like? I have to say my old box is quite poor on audio
quality; the normal NICAM signal sounds a lot better to me. Many of the
radio stations are atrocious quality. Are the new ones any better? I
read somewhere (Gramophone, I think) that digi boxes are let down by the
part that converts the digital signal to analogue audio out (sorry,
don't know the correct name), rather than the digital signal being the
problem. I don't know about that, because my experience of digital
broadcasting is that it is a long way from matching analogue - in this
country anyway.

If I do buy a new one, I would prefer to have phono out because I have
no plans to upgrade my amplifier for the sake of the TV box. Are there
differences between the boxes? I'm thinking of getting another Philips,
but only if the sound quality is better.

David

DTV boxes in general are built down to a price and the sound stage isn't
a prime concern. You'd do better to get one with a digital output stage
and put that through an outboard DAC.

However for better overall quality a good FM tuner and even more
important a good well set up aerial system will give it to you as it
should be

Its also available on the Sky/Astra system but the average sky box is a
**** poor excuse for a receiver. You can use better digital ones for
radio but even then the BBC outputs radio 3 at 192K/bits when they
could do even better. Klassik 4 from Bayern in Germany uses 256 K and it
shows, pity audio quality isn't a prime concern of digital broadcasting
in the UK(
--
Tony Sayer

Forester wrote:

If I do buy a new one, I would prefer to have phono out because I have
no plans to upgrade my amplifier for the sake of the TV box. Are there
differences between the boxes? I'm thinking of getting another
Philips, but only if the sound quality is better.


The Philips DTR1500 (£70):

http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/CatalogueItem_14143.html

came out top in one of the hi-fi mag's Freeview receivers test, and it
has both digital and phono analogue outputs. But if you want the best
audio quality then you're best using the digital output, as other people
have said, because this avoids the analogue phono outputs. Probably best
just to get one of the above Philips boxes and see if you think it's
good enough via the phonos. If it's not then you're virtually guaranteed
to improve the audio quality if you send the digital output to a DAC or
a decent AV amp.

The other point you were asking about was the different quality of the
stations on Freeview. This is primarily down to the bit rate level
they're transmitted at, see this table to compa

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/in...bit_rate_table

As you can see, the commercial music stations that sound bad use
128kbps, whereas Radios 1-4 use 192kbps and 6 Music, 1Xtra and BBC7 use
160kbps. Not perfect, but good. However, I agree with Tony that for
Radio 3 you'd be better off with an FM tuner and a decent aerial
installation. This is the best entry level FM tuner:

http://www.richersounds.com/index.ph...l.php&p=201138

and there's a recording of Radio 3 using that tuner he

http://69.57.180.10/~digital/R3_FM.mp3 (2.3 MB)
http://69.57.180.10/~digital/radio3_fm.mp3 (7.4 MB)

or if you can decode AAC or FLAC then the latter file is also available
in these formats:

http://69.57.180.10/~digital/radio3_fm.mp4 (6.9 MB)
http://69.57.180.10/~digital/radio3_fm.flac (16.2 MB)


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and
broadband internet radio

In article ,
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote:

Forester wrote:

If I do buy a new one, I would prefer to have phono out because I have
no plans to upgrade my amplifier for the sake of the TV box. Are there
differences between the boxes? I'm thinking of getting another
Philips, but only if the sound quality is better.


The Philips DTR1500 (£70):

http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/CatalogueItem_14143.html

came out top in one of the hi-fi mag's Freeview receivers test, and it
has both digital and phono analogue outputs. But if you want the best
audio quality then you're best using the digital output, as other people
have said, because this avoids the analogue phono outputs. Probably best
just to get one of the above Philips boxes and see if you think it's
good enough via the phonos. If it's not then you're virtually guaranteed
to improve the audio quality if you send the digital output to a DAC or
a decent AV amp.

The other point you were asking about was the different quality of the
stations on Freeview. This is primarily down to the bit rate level
they're transmitted at, see this table to compa

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/in...bit_rate_table

Thanks for the advice. I think I'll have a look at the Philips box (it
seems better built than the competition). Unfortunately I'm not prepared
to buy a new AV amp for digital and my Tuner is a good one.

The area we're going to has great TV and radio reception, so I may be
able to watch and listen through analogue broadcasting if the phono
stage on the digital box isn't up to it.

David

"Forester" wrote in message
...
Watching the proms I was frustrated at not being able to listen through
the hi-fi whilst watching an out of sync digital broadcast! I thought it
would be nice to connect the box to the hi-fi, but the sound isn't quite
as good as my tuner. We are about to move house and thinking of updating
my Philips OnDigital box to one of the newer Freeview ones. I've noticed
that the new boxes are MUCH quicker re. text and channel changes, but
what is the sound like? I have to say my old box is quite poor on audio
quality; the normal NICAM signal sounds a lot better to me. Many of the
radio stations are atrocious quality. Are the new ones any better? I
read somewhere (Gramophone, I think) that digi boxes are let down by the
part that converts the digital signal to analogue audio out (sorry,
don't know the correct name), rather than the digital signal being the
problem. I don't know about that, because my experience of digital
broadcasting is that it is a long way from matching analogue - in this
country anyway.

If I do buy a new one, I would prefer to have phono out because I have
no plans to upgrade my amplifier for the sake of the TV box. Are there
differences between the boxes? I'm thinking of getting another Philips,
but only if the sound quality is better.

Have you tried turning the volume down on the freeview box and upping the
vol on the hi-fi?

In article ,
"Oddjob" wrote:

Have you tried turning the volume down on the freeview box and upping the
vol on the hi-fi?

But that's the point: the digital broadcast is out of sync with the
Radio 3 broadcast - which is very irritating when watching the strings
and percussion sections!! So. it's either radio 3 with the analogue
broadcast or digital through the amplifier.

Get it?

In article , DAB sounds worse
than FM writes
Forester wrote:
In article ,
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote:

Forester wrote:

If I do buy a new one, I would prefer to have phono out because I
have no plans to upgrade my amplifier for the sake of the TV box.
Are there differences between the boxes? I'm thinking of getting
another Philips, but only if the sound quality is better.


The Philips DTR1500 (£70):

http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/CatalogueItem_14143.html

came out top in one of the hi-fi mag's Freeview receivers test, and
it has both digital and phono analogue outputs. But if you want the
best audio quality then you're best using the digital output, as
other people have said, because this avoids the analogue phono
outputs. Probably best just to get one of the above Philips boxes
and see if you think it's good enough via the phonos. If it's not
then you're virtually guaranteed to improve the audio quality if you
send the digital output to a DAC or a decent AV amp.

The other point you were asking about was the different quality of
the stations on Freeview. This is primarily down to the bit rate
level they're transmitted at, see this table to compa

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/in...bit_rate_table

Thanks for the advice.


No problem.


I think I'll have a look at the Philips box (it
seems better built than the competition).


The Freeview boxes made by Philips, Pioneer, Sony, Netgem, Nokia (221T,
not 121T) and Humax always seem to have good reviews, and I don't think
there's much between them in terms of general usage.


Unfortunately I'm not
prepared to buy a new AV amp for digital and my Tuner is a good one.


Fair enough.


The area we're going to has great TV and radio reception, so I may be
able to watch and listen through analogue broadcasting if the phono
stage on the digital box isn't up to it.


If you'll have strong FM reception then depending on which stations you
want to listen to FM is well worth a try. Radio 3 for example is better
on FM than on Freeview. Some of the other stations depend on your
opinion of audio processing (dynamic range compression) that the radio
stations apply to most of the music stations.



Agree on that if you have decent FM it still wipes the floor with DAB in
whatever guise its in and on the proms that compression is very small if
at all...
--
Tony Sayer

Forester wrote:
In article ,
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote:

Forester wrote:

If I do buy a new one, I would prefer to have phono out because I
have no plans to upgrade my amplifier for the sake of the TV box.
Are there differences between the boxes? I'm thinking of getting
another Philips, but only if the sound quality is better.


The Philips DTR1500 (£70):

http://www.unbeatable.co.uk/CatalogueItem_14143.html

came out top in one of the hi-fi mag's Freeview receivers test, and
it has both digital and phono analogue outputs. But if you want the
best audio quality then you're best using the digital output, as
other people have said, because this avoids the analogue phono
outputs. Probably best just to get one of the above Philips boxes
and see if you think it's good enough via the phonos. If it's not
then you're virtually guaranteed to improve the audio quality if you
send the digital output to a DAC or a decent AV amp.

The other point you were asking about was the different quality of
the stations on Freeview. This is primarily down to the bit rate
level they're transmitted at, see this table to compa

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/in...bit_rate_table

Thanks for the advice.


No problem.


I think I'll have a look at the Philips box (it
seems better built than the competition).


The Freeview boxes made by Philips, Pioneer, Sony, Netgem, Nokia (221T,
not 121T) and Humax always seem to have good reviews, and I don't think
there's much between them in terms of general usage.


Unfortunately I'm not
prepared to buy a new AV amp for digital and my Tuner is a good one.


Fair enough.


The area we're going to has great TV and radio reception, so I may be
able to watch and listen through analogue broadcasting if the phono
stage on the digital box isn't up to it.


If you'll have strong FM reception then depending on which stations you
want to listen to FM is well worth a try. Radio 3 for example is better
on FM than on Freeview. Some of the other stations depend on your
opinion of audio processing (dynamic range compression) that the radio
stations apply to most of the music stations.


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and
broadband internet radio