Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

Hope someone can help with this query. I want to fit an automatic
volume control to my TV/DVD system to even out the loud and soft peaks
and troughs (when children are in bed we have to continually fiddle
with the voulme control so we don't (a) wake them up or (b) have it so
quiet we can't hear the dialogue). There are stereo phono outputs
which I can use to play the sound through a freestanding amplifier, so
some sort of preamp with phono input/output would do the job.
However, despite extensive Web searches I haven't found anything other
than new TV sets or amplifiers with built-in AVC which would be too
big an expense. If there is something available in kit form I'm
willing to build it myself but I'd prefer an off the shelf solution.

Does anyone have any suggestions and just out of interest, is anyone
else annoyed by wildly fluctuating TV volume? I can't believe I'm the
only one.

Many thanks.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Peter wrote:
Does anyone have any suggestions and just out of interest, is anyone
else annoyed by wildly fluctuating TV volume? I can't believe I'm the
only one.

You've not really thought this through. If everything was the same level,
there'd be no dynamic range.

If you're that worried about waking kids, use headphones.

--
*24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article , Peter
wrote:
Hope someone can help with this query. I want to fit an automatic
volume control to my TV/DVD system to even out the loud and soft peaks
and troughs (when children are in bed we have to continually fiddle with
the voulme control so we don't (a) wake them up or (b) have it so quiet
we can't hear the dialogue).

Afraid I don't know of a unit that you can buy as an add-on to do this.

Also, you may find that if it simply compresses the signal level it may
still no do what you require. This is because some frequencies will pass
from room to room more easily than other and/or may be more noticable.

You may find it helps to reduce the bass level in some way, or experiment
with the tonal balance. If your TV does not do this, then a pre-amp or
equaliser may help.

Failing that, headphones should give good sound for you, and none for the
children. :-)


Does anyone have any suggestions and just out of interest, is anyone
else annoyed by wildly fluctuating TV volume? I can't believe I'm the
only one.

Yes. However my preferences might not agree with your requirements. My main
annoyances a

1) 'background music' being far too loud and common.

2) In contrast with (1), concerts where the announcers are - it would seem
- employed because they have a speaking voice as loud as an orchestra going
full-belt! - i.e. announcements that are far too loud compared with the
actual music.

3) Adverts being much louder than programs. (Fortunately, this is easily
fixed with a mute button on the remote control. :-) )

As shown by a recent AES report, though, I'm afraid that there are quite
marked differences from one TV channel to another as well.

Sorry I can't be more help. I have solved the problem by following the
excellent advice given on medicine packets - "Keep away from children".
;-

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message ...
You've not really thought this through. If everything was the same level,
there'd be no dynamic range.

If you're that worried about waking kids, use headphones.

Hmmm... me and the wife both wearing headphones... it's a thought, but
it might make "pass the biccies dear" a bit difficult.

I don't want to cut out the dynamic range altogether, but what I want
to do is automate what I do already i.e. turn the volume down for the
fights / arguments / car chases and turn it up again for the bit where
Hercule Poirot gathers all the usual suspects together in the drawing
room and explains (quietly) why he thinks Miss Scarlett did it with
the lead piping.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

"Peter" wrote in message
om
"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
You've not really thought this through. If everything was the same
level, there'd be no dynamic range.

If you're that worried about waking kids, use headphones.

Hmmm... me and the wife both wearing headphones... it's a thought, but
it might make "pass the biccies dear" a bit difficult.

I don't want to cut out the dynamic range altogether, but what I want
to do is automate what I do already i.e. turn the volume down for the
fights / arguments / car chases and turn it up again for the bit where
Hercule Poirot gathers all the usual suspects together in the drawing
room and explains (quietly) why he thinks Miss Scarlett did it with
the lead piping.

A good inexpensive hardware tool for managing dynamic range that I've had
some experience is the Behringer 1424. I'm using it to front-end a cassette
machine that is being used for recording church services. It has four major
functions - a compressor with peak limiter, a noise gate, a sonic enhancer,
and a stereo enhancer. I have the last two functions completely turned off.

You can control the various functions independently with a dial and LED
display. You can have it memorize up to about 100 different sets of
parameters, and call them back by number.

The compressor can be adjusted to increase the level of soft passages by a
variable amount. You can set it to act slow or fast. Slow action tends to be
less intrusive. The limiter can be adjusted to sharply decrease further
level increases beyond a certain upper ceiling that you choose. The noise
gate provides a means to avoid further amplifying sounds that are already
very low, such as background noise. You get to choose how low.

The compressor and the noise gate work well together, because left to its
own devices the compressor would bring the noise floor up to the point where
it would be intrusive.

Finally, the whole box is stereo and split-spectrum. It acts on the 2
channels separately or with the dynamics processing for each channel tied
together. It acts on high frequency sounds and low frequency sounds
separately, which tends to minimize the extent to which low frequency sounds
modulate high frequency sounds. You can pick the point where the frequencies
are separated.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Peter wrote:
You've not really thought this through. If everything was the same
level, there'd be no dynamic range.

If you're that worried about waking kids, use headphones.

Hmmm... me and the wife both wearing headphones... it's a thought, but
it might make "pass the biccies dear" a bit difficult.

You'd just need to shout as most people do when wearing headphones...

I don't want to cut out the dynamic range altogether, but what I want
to do is automate what I do already i.e. turn the volume down for the
fights / arguments / car chases and turn it up again for the bit where
Hercule Poirot gathers all the usual suspects together in the drawing
room and explains (quietly) why he thinks Miss Scarlett did it with
the lead piping.

Thing is that the dynamic range is already minimal. It's more the
preception of someone shouting that makes it seem louder - or things like
police sirens designed to be heard above all general noise. The prog
you're listening to has already gone through a compressor to reduce the
dynamic range - and an expensive one at that. The trouble with all these
machines is that they can't second guess what is loud to every individual,
so work, more or less, just on the actual electrical level.

I'm surprised your kids are woken up by the TV, though. Do you live in a
quiet part of the country?

--
*Real men don't waste their hormones growing hair

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
A good inexpensive hardware tool for managing dynamic range that I've
had some experience is the Behringer 1424. I'm using it to front-end a
cassette machine that is being used for recording church services. It
has four major functions - a compressor with peak limiter, a noise gate,
a sonic enhancer, and a stereo enhancer.

I'm not convinced it will do the required job for the OP, Arny. I'd hire
one before buying.

Anyone who finally comes up with a mechanical method of subjective level
matching will make a fortune - and put me out of a job.

--
*Rehab is for quitters

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

"Peter" wrote
Hercule Poirot gathers all the usual suspects together in the drawing
room and explains (quietly) why he thinks Miss Scarlett did it with
the lead piping.

Presumably because she didn't have a dildo handy.


Martin
--
M.A.Poyser Tel.: 07967 110890
Manchester, U.K. http://www.fleetie.demon.co.uk

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

Peter wrote:

Hope someone can help with this query. I want to fit an automatic
volume control to my TV/DVD system to even out the loud and soft peaks
and troughs (when children are in bed we have to continually fiddle
with the voulme control so we don't (a) wake them up or (b) have it so
quiet we can't hear the dialogue). There are stereo phono outputs
which I can use to play the sound through a freestanding amplifier, so
some sort of preamp with phono input/output would do the job.
However, despite extensive Web searches I haven't found anything other
than new TV sets or amplifiers with built-in AVC which would be too
big an expense. If there is something available in kit form I'm
willing to build it myself but I'd prefer an off the shelf solution.

Does anyone have any suggestions and just out of interest, is anyone
else annoyed by wildly fluctuating TV volume?

On the simplistic side, a light bulb in series with the speakers would
do the trick.

At line level, a bead thermistor and resistor would do the same thing,
either in series or in the feedback loop of an opamp.

The above might give problems with balance as tolerances on thermistors
are quite loose, so there may be some voltage controlled amplifier
ICs available. I feel a browse through the RS catalogue coming on.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

Peter wrote:
Hope someone can help with this query. I want to fit an automatic
volume control to my TV/DVD system to even out the loud and soft peaks
and troughs (when children are in bed we have to continually fiddle
with the voulme control so we don't (a) wake them up or (b) have it so
quiet we can't hear the dialogue). There are stereo phono outputs
which I can use to play the sound through a freestanding amplifier, so
some sort of preamp with phono input/output would do the job.
However, despite extensive Web searches I haven't found anything other
than new TV sets or amplifiers with built-in AVC which would be too
big an expense. If there is something available in kit form I'm
willing to build it myself but I'd prefer an off the shelf solution.

Does anyone have any suggestions and just out of interest, is anyone
else annoyed by wildly fluctuating TV volume? I can't believe I'm the
only one.

Many thanks.

Most DVD players I've seen (old and new) have a neighbour friendly mode that
does exactly what you want. This obviously doesnt help with other sources
though.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
2) In contrast with (1), concerts where the announcers are - it would
seem - employed because they have a speaking voice as loud as an
orchestra going full-belt! - i.e. announcements that are far too loud
compared with the actual music.

This is a prime example of how it's impossible to suit everyone. A casual
listener would want everything at near the same level (it seems). A
serious listener would want the music at a reasonably realistic level
which then makes the speech too loud.

--
*Did you ever notice when you blow in a dog's face he gets mad at you? *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Nick wrote:
Most DVD players I've seen (old and new) have a neighbour friendly mode
that does exactly what you want.

It's somewhat easier to compress the dynamic range on a feature film since
it will start out with a fairly wide one. TV, on the other hand, is
already compressed.

This obviously doesnt help with other
sources though.

--
*Why is the man who invests all your money called a broker?

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

Thank you for all those suggestions everyone, I will try a few out!

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

Slightly OT, I'm glad to hear that someone else uses the same tactic as
myself for loud adverts. If lots of us did it, they would soon get the
message.

Dave W.

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
snipped

3) Adverts being much louder than programs. (Fortunately, this is easily
fixed with a mute button on the remote control. :-) )

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Dave W. wrote:
Slightly OT, I'm glad to hear that someone else uses the same tactic as
myself for loud adverts. If lots of us did it, they would soon get the
message.

The advertisers who pay for the programmes you're watching want their ads
heard. If no one watched them, there'd be no ITV - it's as simple as that.
As regards them being too loud, it rather depends on the programme
material before them, and there isn't the effort put into balancing
programme etc junctions, and never has been.

FWIW, adverts actually peak rather less than programme material already.

One day, perhaps, there will be some form of way of measuring subjective
levels and correcting them automatically, but I can't see them being
perfect, as these things vary from person to person.

--
*When you've seen one shopping centre you've seen a mall.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Dave W.
wrote:
Slightly OT, I'm glad to hear that someone else uses the same tactic
as myself for loud adverts. If lots of us did it, they would soon get
the message.

The advertisers who pay for the programmes you're watching want their
ads heard. If no one watched them, there'd be no ITV - it's as simple as
that.

I'd vote for that. :-)

As regards them being too loud, it rather depends on the programme
material before them, and there isn't the effort put into balancing
programme etc junctions, and never has been.

FWIW, adverts actually peak rather less than programme material already.

They may do. However as you imply below this brings us back to metered peak
power not really telling you how loud something sounds. My impression is
that adverts are often compressed and processed to give more impact and
'loudness'.

One day, perhaps, there will be some form of way of measuring subjective
levels and correcting them automatically, but I can't see them being
perfect, as these things vary from person to person.

Mind you, this all pales compared with last night's prom on BBCTV4...

Just after the start of the 3rd movement of the Mozart. Sudden cut to an
advert for another programme. Interrupted the music, then back again just
as abruptly. No comment or apology right after the concert finished,
either. Does no-one at the BBC actually *watch* what they are broadcasting?

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
The advertisers who pay for the programmes you're watching want their
ads heard. If no one watched them, there'd be no ITV - it's as simple
as that.

I'd vote for that. :-)

So you'd be happy with more than doubling the licence fee to get rid of
advertising on ITV? I think you could hold your first supporters meeting
in a phone box...

As regards them being too loud, it rather depends on the programme
material before them, and there isn't the effort put into balancing
programme etc junctions, and never has been.

FWIW, adverts actually peak rather less than programme material
already.

They may do. However as you imply below this brings us back to metered
peak power not really telling you how loud something sounds. My
impression is that adverts are often compressed and processed to give
more impact and 'loudness'.

They are indeed. And that is precisely the intention of the people making
them. Would you expect otherwise if you were commissioning an ad?

One day, perhaps, there will be some form of way of measuring
subjective levels and correcting them automatically, but I can't see
them being perfect, as these things vary from person to person.

Mind you, this all pales compared with last night's prom on BBCTV4...

Just after the start of the 3rd movement of the Mozart. Sudden cut to an
advert for another programme. Interrupted the music, then back again
just as abruptly. No comment or apology right after the concert
finished, either. Does no-one at the BBC actually *watch* what they are
broadcasting?

No. It's all done automatically - and even if it weren't, the child they'd
employ would have no authority to alter levels.

--
*Am I ambivalent? Well, yes and no.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:19:04 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
The advertisers who pay for the programmes you're watching want their
ads heard. If no one watched them, there'd be no ITV - it's as simple
as that.

I'd vote for that. :-)

So you'd be happy with more than doubling the licence fee to get rid of
advertising on ITV? I think you could hold your first supporters meeting
in a phone box...

I don't think that is what Jim was saying. He was voting for an end to
ITV. I'd vote for that too... the "3" button on my remote is totally
unworn.

As regards them being too loud, it rather depends on the programme
material before them, and there isn't the effort put into balancing
programme etc junctions, and never has been.

FWIW, adverts actually peak rather less than programme material
already.

They may do. However as you imply below this brings us back to metered
peak power not really telling you how loud something sounds. My
impression is that adverts are often compressed and processed to give
more impact and 'loudness'.

They are indeed. And that is precisely the intention of the people making
them. Would you expect otherwise if you were commissioning an ad?

If I were commissioning an ad, I would say - don't make the volume
jump when the ad starts - it makes people change channel to escape the
noise.

One day, perhaps, there will be some form of way of measuring
subjective levels and correcting them automatically, but I can't see
them being perfect, as these things vary from person to person.

Mind you, this all pales compared with last night's prom on BBCTV4...

Just after the start of the 3rd movement of the Mozart. Sudden cut to an
advert for another programme. Interrupted the music, then back again
just as abruptly. No comment or apology right after the concert
finished, either. Does no-one at the BBC actually *watch* what they are
broadcasting?

No. It's all done automatically - and even if it weren't, the child they'd
employ would have no authority to alter levels.

People at the BBC watching the output died when quality control died.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
I don't think that is what Jim was saying. He was voting for an end to
ITV. I'd vote for that too... the "3" button on my remote is totally
unworn.

Well, given that he was complaining about advert levels means he watches
it. As you say, you're not forced to. But if you wanted to watch it
without ads, my comment stands.

As regards them being too loud, it rather depends on the programme
material before them, and there isn't the effort put into balancing
programme etc junctions, and never has been.

FWIW, adverts actually peak rather less than programme material
already.

They may do. However as you imply below this brings us back to metered
peak power not really telling you how loud something sounds. My
impression is that adverts are often compressed and processed to give
more impact and 'loudness'.

They are indeed. And that is precisely the intention of the people
making them. Would you expect otherwise if you were commissioning an ad?

If I were commissioning an ad, I would say - don't make the volume jump
when the ad starts - it makes people change channel to escape the noise.

Once *again*, it depends on the programme it's following. If it were some
brassy LE with heavy closing music under riotous applause, the ad ain't
going to sound louder. After some poignant drama, yes. But the advertisers
don't know where their ad is going - most of the time.

One day, perhaps, there will be some form of way of measuring
subjective levels and correcting them automatically, but I can't
see them being perfect, as these things vary from person to person.

Mind you, this all pales compared with last night's prom on BBCTV4...

Just after the start of the 3rd movement of the Mozart. Sudden cut to
an advert for another programme. Interrupted the music, then back
again just as abruptly. No comment or apology right after the concert
finished, either. Does no-one at the BBC actually *watch* what they
are broadcasting?

No. It's all done automatically - and even if it weren't, the child
they'd employ would have no authority to alter levels.

People at the BBC watching the output died when quality control died.

It's the same industry wide.

The *only* way you'd get decent programme /ad junctions would be by
having a skilled human rehearsing and adjusting the transition. Then the
money bags would complain their ad wasn't loud enough. And that skilled
human would be in the looney bin in short order - being forced to watch a
whole shift of mainly rubbish.

--
*Time is the best teacher; unfortunately it kills all its students.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 18:05:16 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

People at the BBC watching the output died when quality control died.

It's the same industry wide.

The *only* way you'd get decent programme /ad junctions would be by
having a skilled human rehearsing and adjusting the transition. Then the
money bags would complain their ad wasn't loud enough. And that skilled
human would be in the looney bin in short order - being forced to watch a
whole shift of mainly rubbish.

I remember a time not so long ago when ITV stations would never run a
programme trail during a mid-programme ad break in another programme.
There were good reasons and they still apply.But they no longer follow
this dictum.

We are also far down the nasty slippery slope of programme
sponsorship. This results in the bland crap programmes we all know and
loathe.

As a general rule, I would say there is enough good material in the
world to fill perhaps two TV channels for 24 hours a day. I'm actually
being generous here, and I could argue that there isn't even enough
for one. With a few notable exceptions, ads do nothing to make the
situation better

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
As a general rule, I would say there is enough good material in the
world to fill perhaps two TV channels for 24 hours a day. I'm actually
being generous here, and I could argue that there isn't even enough
for one. With a few notable exceptions, ads do nothing to make the
situation better

Apart from providing the wherewithal to make those programmes? There's no
getting away from it - you either pay direct like the BEEB, or you have
adverts.

And there's only a limited pot, so make more product and the quality
usually suffers - it's not something that can be mass produced. Even
although much of it now looks like it is.

--
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:41:35 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
As a general rule, I would say there is enough good material in the
world to fill perhaps two TV channels for 24 hours a day. I'm actually
being generous here, and I could argue that there isn't even enough
for one. With a few notable exceptions, ads do nothing to make the
situation better

Apart from providing the wherewithal to make those programmes? There's no
getting away from it - you either pay direct like the BEEB, or you have
adverts.

And there's only a limited pot, so make more product and the quality
usually suffers - it's not something that can be mass produced. Even
although much of it now looks like it is.

Oh I can see the nature of the problem. But I can also see some
solutions.

1. Make only a very few programmes so quality isn't diluted.
2. Pay presenters and actors realistic fees (£10 an hour ought to
cover reading out loud).
3. Once a presenter has made three programmes, force them to retire
for at least a year.
4. Bring back the test card to make the point forcefully when there
isn't a sufficiently good programme to put to air.
5. Ban award shows.
6. remove every soap opera from the screens.
7. Teach "yoof" presenters how to speak. Particularly beat them with
whips until they no longer pronounce "this" as "dis".

That'll do for a start.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
Oh I can see the nature of the problem. But I can also see some
solutions.

1. Make only a very few programmes so quality isn't diluted.
2. Pay presenters and actors realistic fees (£10 an hour ought to
cover reading out loud).

It wouldn't surprise me if some presenters actually got less than this for
the hours they are at work. And not all actors make telephone number money
either - it's not unknown for them to be poorer paid than some of the
technicians working on the same programme - and the days of them being
well paid are long since gone too...

3. Once a presenter has made three programmes, force them to retire
for at least a year.

Now that's a good idea.

4. Bring back the test card to make the point forcefully when there
isn't a sufficiently good programme to put to air.

Interludes. The potter's wheel etc.

5. Ban award shows.

Yup

6. remove every soap opera from the screens.

Apart from Family Affairs, obviously.

7. Teach "yoof" presenters how to speak. Particularly beat them with
whips until they no longer pronounce "this" as "dis".

I'm lucky enough not to ever see them. Still, Peter Duncan was a yoof
presenter - now he's Chief Scout.

That'll do for a start.

How about a series on how to build your own valve amp? Would have a loyal
audience...

--
*When a clock is hungry it goes back four seconds.*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:36:03 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
Oh I can see the nature of the problem. But I can also see some
solutions.

1. Make only a very few programmes so quality isn't diluted.
2. Pay presenters and actors realistic fees (£10 an hour ought to
cover reading out loud).

It wouldn't surprise me if some presenters actually got less than this for
the hours they are at work. And not all actors make telephone number money
either - it's not unknown for them to be poorer paid than some of the
technicians working on the same programme - and the days of them being
well paid are long since gone too...

OK, just ban any actor that has ever called another one "darling".

3. Once a presenter has made three programmes, force them to retire
for at least a year.

Now that's a good idea.

4. Bring back the test card to make the point forcefully when there
isn't a sufficiently good programme to put to air.

Interludes. The potter's wheel etc.

5. Ban award shows.

Yup

6. remove every soap opera from the screens.

Apart from Family Affairs, obviously.

Wossat?

7. Teach "yoof" presenters how to speak. Particularly beat them with
whips until they no longer pronounce "this" as "dis".

I'm lucky enough not to ever see them. Still, Peter Duncan was a yoof
presenter - now he's Chief Scout.

Don't get me started on those paedophiles...

That'll do for a start.

How about a series on how to build your own valve amp? Would have a loyal
audience...

Now there's a thought.

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Paul Dormer wrote:
Apart from Family Affairs, obviously.

Wossat?

It's a rubbish show Dave works on :-)

Used to - when it had some semblance of normality. ;-)

--
*I love cats...they taste just like chicken.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

Hi,

In message , Don Pearce
writes
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:36:03 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me if some presenters actually got less than this for
the hours they are at work. And not all actors make telephone number money
either - it's not unknown for them to be poorer paid than some of the
technicians working on the same programme - and the days of them being
well paid are long since gone too...

OK, just ban any actor that has ever called another one "darling".

But... that's all of them, except maybe Arnie.

3. Once a presenter has made three programmes, force them to retire
for at least a year.

Now that's a good idea.

Better yet, during their year off put them in the Big Brother house. But
don't televise it unless David Attenborough can do the commentary.

5. Ban award shows.

Yup

That might go a long way to cleaning most of the cocaine off the streets
at the same time...

7. Teach "yoof" presenters how to speak. Particularly beat them with
whips until they no longer pronounce "this" as "dis".

Add compulsory public floggings for any that change 'ask' into 'axe'.

--
Regards,
Glenn Booth

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:
The advertisers who pay for the programmes you're watching want
their ads heard. If no one watched them, there'd be no ITV - it's as
simple as that.

I'd vote for that. :-)

So you'd be happy with more than doubling the licence fee to get rid of
advertising on ITV? I think you could hold your first supporters meeting
in a phone box...

You are saying that the BBC would cost more to run - for its *existing*
channels - if ITV wasn't around?

If so, can you explain why?

Also, are you taking into account how much ITV costs us all via the
mechanism of the part of the purchase price when we buy things? I have no
figures, but I recall comments in the past that the costs for ITV average
out, per TV station, much higher than for the BBC. The money for this comes
from the ads, paid for out of the money we pay for goods that are
advertised. Thus I pay more per year for ITV than BBC.

I don't watch ITV much, but I've not yet found a shop which will sell me
good more cheaply because I don't watch the programmes funded by the
adverts towards which the makers advertising budget is contributing.

As regards them being too loud, it rather depends on the programme
material before them, and there isn't the effort put into balancing
programme etc junctions, and never has been.

FWIW, adverts actually peak rather less than programme material
already.

They may do. However as you imply below this brings us back to metered
peak power not really telling you how loud something sounds. My
impression is that adverts are often compressed and processed to give
more impact and 'loudness'.

They are indeed. And that is precisely the intention of the people
making them. Would you expect otherwise if you were commissioning an ad?

Depends. I suppose that I'd want to get attention. But I also suppose I'd
want to avoid irritating people or simply provoking them to switching off
the sound, or changing channel.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article , Don Pearce
wrote:
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 14:19:04 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:
The advertisers who pay for the programmes you're watching want
their ads heard. If no one watched them, there'd be no ITV - it's
as simple as that.

I'd vote for that. :-)

So you'd be happy with more than doubling the licence fee to get rid of
advertising on ITV? I think you could hold your first supporters
meeting in a phone box...

I don't think that is what Jim was saying. He was voting for an end to
ITV. I'd vote for that too... the "3" button on my remote is totally
unworn.

Yes. That was my point. I was not asking for ITV to be funded via any other
route. Just saying that my *personal* view is that I don't watch it, so
would not choose to have it survive if given a vote.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Don Pearce
wrote:
I don't think that is what Jim was saying. He was voting for an end to
ITV. I'd vote for that too... the "3" button on my remote is totally
unworn.

Well, given that he was complaining about advert levels means he watches
it. As you say, you're not forced to. But if you wanted to watch it
without ads, my comment stands.

I'm now trying to recall when we last watched ITV. Not sure. We do watch
the 7 pm news on C4, but that isn't quite the same I guess. So my comments
about adverts were probably based upon C4. I assumed (perhaps incorrectly)
that those on ITV would be much the same.


Once *again*, it depends on the programme it's following. If it were
some brassy LE with heavy closing music under riotous applause, the ad
ain't going to sound louder. After some poignant drama, yes. But the
advertisers don't know where their ad is going - most of the time.

That surprises me. I thought they booked specific slots, often on specific
info as to what programme they would be withing or preceed/follow. I had
thought that some programmes commanded a higher price, and others were
relatively cheap.


People at the BBC watching the output died when quality control died.

It's the same industry wide.

The *only* way you'd get decent programme /ad junctions would be by
having a skilled human rehearsing and adjusting the transition. Then the
money bags would complain their ad wasn't loud enough. And that skilled
human would be in the looney bin in short order - being forced to watch
a whole shift of mainly rubbish.

However the problem I was referring to was an 'advert' (OK, a trailer)
popping up during a prom broadcast. (Just after the start of the 3rd
movement of the Mozart.) I don't know how this occurred, but I'd guess it
was:

A) That the trail was pre-programmed to appear at a set time. Hence it came
on at 9.30pm as that was the time set.

or

B) Someone spilled their coffee and pressed the wrong button in the
confusion.

Either way, I assume that it was the result of an incorrect action on the
part of *someone*. I also assume there should be some sort of management
and QC structure within the BBC.

It was also odd that the progamme finished 'in a rush' despite being
earlier than billed in RT, and was then followed by three short filler
items which presumably had to be decided upon at short noitice. So there
must have been human input 'live' at some level, yet no-one seemed to be
watching the results - or could be arsed to apologise to listeners/viewers
for the 'bonus' item in the Mozart!

Wierd. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
In article ,
Don Pearce wrote:
As a general rule, I would say there is enough good material in the
world to fill perhaps two TV channels for 24 hours a day. I'm actually
being generous here, and I could argue that there isn't even enough
for one. With a few notable exceptions, ads do nothing to make the
situation better

Apart from providing the wherewithal to make those programmes? There's no
getting away from it - you either pay direct like the BEEB, or you have
adverts.

Personally, despite the occasional 'whoops' like the Mozart, I am quite
happy to pay for the BBC via a fee. I would also be personally quite happy
if ITV dissapeared and less were spent on advertising.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

On 23 Jul, wrote:


I'm now trying to recall when we last watched ITV.

Just remembered that I recorded "The Untouchables" that was on ITV2 a while
ago. Still can't remember the last time we watched ITV1...

..of course, one of the nice things about having recorded the film was
that I could zip through the adverts. :-)

In fact the DVDR I have (I think) lets you mark sections to 'skip' when
replaying, so I could have set the recording to jump over the ad breaks
auotmatically. Wonder if that puts a chill down the spine of TV
advertisers... ;-

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 09:09:29 +0100, Glenn Booth
wrote:

Hi,

In message , Don Pearce
writes
On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 21:36:03 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

It wouldn't surprise me if some presenters actually got less than this for
the hours they are at work. And not all actors make telephone number money
either - it's not unknown for them to be poorer paid than some of the
technicians working on the same programme - and the days of them being
well paid are long since gone too...

OK, just ban any actor that has ever called another one "darling".

But... that's all of them, except maybe Arnie.

Hehe... you noticed!


3. Once a presenter has made three programmes, force them to retire
for at least a year.

Now that's a good idea.

Better yet, during their year off put them in the Big Brother house. But
don't televise it unless David Attenborough can do the commentary.

5. Ban award shows.

Yup

That might go a long way to cleaning most of the cocaine off the streets
at the same time...

Just add ground glass to the cocaine.


7. Teach "yoof" presenters how to speak. Particularly beat them with
whips until they no longer pronounce "this" as "dis".

Add compulsory public floggings for any that change 'ask' into 'axe'.

Now you're talking!...

d
Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Glenn Booth wrote:
7. Teach "yoof" presenters how to speak. Particularly beat them with
whips until they no longer pronounce "this" as "dis".

Add compulsory public floggings for any that change 'ask' into 'axe'.

They'd only make a programme about it. With a suitable warning at the top
of course. 'Don't try this at home.' Unless you really want to, of course.

--
*Work is for people who don't know how to fish.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
The advertisers who pay for the programmes you're watching want
their ads heard. If no one watched them, there'd be no ITV - it's as
simple as that.

I'd vote for that. :-)

So you'd be happy with more than doubling the licence fee to get rid of
advertising on ITV? I think you could hold your first supporters meeting
in a phone box...

You are saying that the BBC would cost more to run - for its *existing*
channels - if ITV wasn't around?

No - I'm only saying that if 'ITV' existed without adverts it would have
to be funded in some way - like by an extension to the licence.

It's aimed at those who complain about adverts. They don't *have* to watch
ITV, but if they do, they surely must realise that's what pays for it?

If so, can you explain why?

Also, are you taking into account how much ITV costs us all via the
mechanism of the part of the purchase price when we buy things? I have
no figures, but I recall comments in the past that the costs for ITV
average out, per TV station, much higher than for the BBC. The money for
this comes from the ads, paid for out of the money we pay for goods that
are advertised. Thus I pay more per year for ITV than BBC.

Could well be. However, without ITV, the advertisers would just spend
their budget elsewhere - perhaps in newspapers you never read or pop radio
stations you don't listen to.
Besides, if you feel that strongly, there are always alternate products
that aren't advertised - supermarket own brands for example.

I don't watch ITV much, but I've not yet found a shop which will sell me
good more cheaply because I don't watch the programmes funded by the
adverts towards which the makers advertising budget is contributing.

Why should they? No one is *obliged* to sell you anything. They offer
something for sale and you buy it or not - the choice is yours. It was
perhaps different when the old state monopolies advertised, but there's
not many of them left.

As regards them being too loud, it rather depends on the programme
material before them, and there isn't the effort put into balancing
programme etc junctions, and never has been.

FWIW, adverts actually peak rather less than programme material
already.

They may do. However as you imply below this brings us back to
metered peak power not really telling you how loud something sounds.
My impression is that adverts are often compressed and processed to
give more impact and 'loudness'.

They are indeed. And that is precisely the intention of the people
making them. Would you expect otherwise if you were commissioning an
ad?

Depends. I suppose that I'd want to get attention. But I also suppose I'd
want to avoid irritating people or simply provoking them to switching off
the sound, or changing channel.

Some people just don't like ads - full stop. I often get very bored seeing
the same one over and over again - and I don't watch much TV.

--
*One of us is thinking about sex... OK, it's me.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
Once *again*, it depends on the programme it's following. If it were
some brassy LE with heavy closing music under riotous applause, the ad
ain't going to sound louder. After some poignant drama, yes. But the
advertisers don't know where their ad is going - most of the time.

That surprises me. I thought they booked specific slots, often on
specific info as to what programme they would be withing or
preceed/follow. I had thought that some programmes commanded a higher
price, and others were relatively cheap.

It depends on the deal. I'm on shaky ground here as it's a long time since
I worked for ITV, but at one time an advertiser would pay for an
'audience' This might mean one showing at peak time, or several off peak.
Etc. They might also pay for a target audience, so that would be more
programme dependant.

But do you really expect them to produce many different versions, sound
wise, just for this reason? After all, continuity announcements over the
end of programmes blast you out of the room too - and they're under the
control of the transmitting company...

--
*Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
In fact the DVDR I have (I think) lets you mark sections to 'skip' when
replaying, so I could have set the recording to jump over the ad breaks
auotmatically. Wonder if that puts a chill down the spine of TV
advertisers... ;-

I doubt it. While you're setting this up, you'll see at least some of the
ads.

--
*I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Jim Lesurf wrote:
Personally, despite the occasional 'whoops' like the Mozart, I am quite
happy to pay for the BBC via a fee. I would also be personally quite
happy if ITV dissapeared and less were spent on advertising.

I'm also more than happy to pay for the BBC. As regards money spent on
advertising, I rather my percentage of that wasn't spent on much of the
gutter press that do much more harm to our society than ITV.

--
*The e-mail of the species is more deadly than the mail *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

In article ,
Paul Dormer wrote:
Apart from Family Affairs, obviously.

Wossat?

It's a rubbish show Dave works on :-)

Used to - when it had some semblance of normality. ;-)

Me and the GF used to watch it on Sundays afternoons for a chuckle,
the acting and storylines were that laughable.. but I never had any
complaints about the audio quality ;-)

It was quite a struggle to achieve half decent sound quality in the early
days - the gear provided was *very* lower end. Lots of table thumping to
get reasonable microphones, compressors etc, but the console remained
cheap and nasty. Dubbing was an early PC based system too - MIDI rather
than timecode locked. Fun and games.

These days it's made on the same site as The Bill, with top notch
technical facilities. Nothing much else has changed, though.;-)
Fun to work on, although a hectic pace. In terms of hours of output, it's
probably the most efficient studio(s) in the country.

--
*There are two kinds of pedestrians... the quick and the dead.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

Peter wrote:

Hope someone can help with this query. I want to fit an automatic
volume control to my TV/DVD system to even out the loud and soft peaks
and troughs (when children are in bed we have to continually fiddle
with the voulme control so we don't (a) wake them up or (b) have it so
quiet we can't hear the dialogue). There are stereo phono outputs
which I can use to play the sound through a freestanding amplifier, so
some sort of preamp with phono input/output would do the job.
However, despite extensive Web searches I haven't found anything other
than new TV sets or amplifiers with built-in AVC which would be too
big an expense. If there is something available in kit form I'm
willing to build it myself but I'd prefer an off the shelf solution.

Does anyone have any suggestions and just out of interest, is anyone
else annoyed by wildly fluctuating TV volume? I can't believe I'm the
only one.

You're not.

In the least few years I've noticed several annoying trends in audio
production for TV.

Modern TVs and their ancillaries like 5.1 can happily handle 'hi-fi'
dynamics. It seems that some producers have used this to 'enhance' their
audio. Sadly this results in a dynamic range that may not be entirely
suitable for the home.

As you say - you might wake the kids with the 'loud bits' ( in my case
annoy the neighbour - and me ). Frankly I don't *need* to have the full
dynamic range of my system inposed on my to 'impress'.

'Old' TV production seemed to take account of everyday living conditions
better but since you have a problem you could attach a 'compressor' or
limiter - actually a combination of both is lilely to work best between
the signal source and amplification.

It's not a simple 'automatic volume control' since it requires a setup -
but once set you'll likely find it doesn't need adjusting.

Suggest you look at Behringer ( semi pro-audio gear ) and select their
simplest limiter / compressor currently available. They're quite good.

Being 'pro' it doesn't use 'phono' / RCA inputs / outputs though - so
you'll have to make some leads to convert to jack or XLR plugs / sockets.


Graham

Automatic volume control pre-amp
 

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote:

In article ,
Nick wrote:
Most DVD players I've seen (old and new) have a neighbour friendly mode
that does exactly what you want.

It's somewhat easier to compress the dynamic range on a feature film since
it will start out with a fairly wide one. TV, on the other hand, is
already compressed.

Typically - yes. Doesn't stop certain producers setting high levels for their
intro music or whatever.

Are you sure that Nicam audio is compressed like the standard signal ? I've
heard several inconsistencies recently between the mono and stereo sound.


Graham