"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message
...
Rob wrote:
"DAB sounds worse than FM" wrote in message
...
Rob wrote:
"Paul Dormer" wrote in message
...
Copied from another group.. for anyone that's interested!

"Argos, code number is 5002553, was £99.99 now £44.99 .
Ring & reserve using this code number for a bargain."


Just bought one, ordered via Argos Beckton, 45 UKP. So far so good:
- picks up loads of stations at full signal
- nicely screwed together with 2 yr warranty
- sounds rather muffled and bassy, but quite pleasing, rather like
an old Roberts
- very impressed when routed through the stereo


Impressed with DAB through a stereo???? I thought this was an audio
newsgroup??

Yep, correct. From first impressions at normal listening levels I've
found the sound quite good considering - uncompressed and clear. Not
as (er) sonorous as FM, but this isn't really about ultimate sound
quality period for me - it's about casual listening to certain radio
programmes I like. Hence 'audio'.


However you describe your listening habits, DAB sounds crap, end of
story.


I bought it as part of my gadget accumulation regime, and the fact
that i like to listen to BBCR6 and world service, both of which were
too much of a faff pre-Evoke. For the money and my whims, no
complaints.



I suggest you get Freeview, because the audio quality of 6 Music on
Freeview wipes the floor with the audio quality of 6 Music on DAB.

I've got a freeview box. It would involve routing a cable from one
room to another,


Big deal.


switching the TV on,


Not necessary if you got the highly regarded Humax F2FoxT with an LED
channel number display:

http://tinyurl.com/5pm2q


fumbling with the slow
interface,


Slow interfaces are a thing of the past on Freeview boxes. Only the old
On/ITV Digital boxes are slow now.


remembering the channel number. I just can't be bothered
for the extra 32 kb/s (or whatever).


But you said:

"very impressed when routed through the stereo"

Don't make comments that make the audio quality out to be something that
it is not, whether you can be bothered about the audio quality for radio
listening, or not.


As for wipes the floor I've been unimpressed with implementation of
digital terrestrial in general - I prefer analogue TV audio (Nicam)
and FM. The whole thing has been a botch, and at that point when the
thing gets consolidated I would hope for higher bitrates for audio
and video. And when that point arrives, if it arrives, you can bet
we'll need new hardware, until the next time. Rant over.

For now, for the money and for what it does, I like the Evoke.


I also bought an Evoke for £40 (the £45 offer plus I had a £5-off
voucher), and I have to say I'm completely unimpressed by it. The reason
I bought it (while knowing what DAB sounds like) was the fact that I've
seen so many people praise the sound quality of the Evoke-1. What a joke
that is. My £25 Sony ICF703 analogue portable blows it away in terms of
sound quality. The one and only advantage the Evoke has is that it has
presets, but you can get FM portables with presets for about £30+, so I
think I'll be selling the Evoke on eBay when I get round to it and buy a
Sony analogue portable with presets instead, and I certainly won't go
round saying "very impressed when routed through the stereo" because I
don't like misleading people.


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and
broadband internet radio



The only thing is that there are people who want a small radio on which to
listen to stations that are otherwise unavailable to them like 5 Sport,
BBC7, JazzFM, etc.

For speech based progs its is more than acceptable in my opinion. I bought
one as an early birthday present for SWMBO and it is the first in many years
which she has not only accepted without complaint but positively enjoys!!


--

Woody

Woody wrote:

The only thing is that there are people who want a small radio on
which to listen to stations that are otherwise unavailable to them
like 5 Sport, BBC7, JazzFM, etc.

For speech based progs its is more than acceptable in my opinion. I
bought one as an early birthday present for SWMBO and it is the first
in many years which she has not only accepted without complaint but
positively enjoys!!


That's great, but don't forget that there's more to radio than small
mono portable radios.

Basically though, the problem with DAB in the UK is that the Radio
Authority (now under Ofcom) set the minimum bit rates for stereo music
stations to be 128kbps, and now 98% of all stereo stations in the UK are
128kbps. 128kbps may well be okay for a small portable radio, but DAB
was originally designed to provide CD-quality (look at ANY research
paper from the early days (late 80s early 90s) of DAB development and
the main reason for it being developed was to provide high audio
quality)

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/bbc_bitrates.htm

Now we've got 5 extra BBC stations and Radios 1, 2, 4, 6 Music and 1Xtra
using 128kbps, which has been officially classified as providing
"Annoying" audio quality:

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/bi...vs_quality.htm

Also, we have the commercial radio groups all using 128kbps for music
stations, despite the fact that there's lots of spare capacity on the
commercial DAB multiplexes:

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/wa...x_capacity.htm

But anyway, thanks for letting me know that your wife loves DAB. I'm
sure the rest of the nation will be thrilled by the fact that your wife
likes BBC7 yet they're listening to their favourite 128kbps music
station at a significantly lower audio quality than on FM.

Well, to be honest, Joe Averge will just fall for the DAB hype and
*believe* that DAB is better, even though it's actually worse.

Oh, and BTW, the UK has the lowest audio quality on DAB in the entire
world, see:

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/worldwide_dab.htm

but that's alright, because your wife can get Radio 5 Sports Extra....


--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and
broadband internet radio

DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
Woody wrote:

The only thing is that there are people who want a small radio on
which to listen to stations that are otherwise unavailable to them
like 5 Sport, BBC7, JazzFM, etc.

For speech based progs its is more than acceptable in my opinion. I
bought one as an early birthday present for SWMBO and it is the first
in many years which she has not only accepted without complaint but
positively enjoys!!


That's great, but don't forget that there's more to radio than small
mono portable radios.


Maybe... but I, like many others, will use FM for 'serious' radio and DAB
for easy tuning, good-enough quality, display the track titles Jonathan Ross
is playing when I've just woken up, bedside radio

Stimpy wrote:
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:
Woody wrote:

The only thing is that there are people who want a small radio on
which to listen to stations that are otherwise unavailable to them
like 5 Sport, BBC7, JazzFM, etc.

For speech based progs its is more than acceptable in my opinion. I
bought one as an early birthday present for SWMBO and it is the
first in many years which she has not only accepted without
complaint but positively enjoys!!


That's great, but don't forget that there's more to radio than small
mono portable radios.


Maybe... but I, like many others, will use FM for 'serious' radio


What are you going to do when they turn FM off?

At the end of the day, 128kbps music stations on DAB sound a lot worse
than they do on FM, and the commercial broadcasters don't want to
increase bit rates (there's loads of unused capacity on multiplexes
now), and the BBC may not be able to increase bit rates if the
commercial radio groups get their way (they are obviously opposed to the
BBC getting any more capacity), and the codec used on DAB is now very
old and mature and is not going to magic up better audio quality without
increasing the bit rates.

So, what do you propose should happen when FM is turned off and you've
no longer got decent audio quality on the radio?



--
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

DAB sounds worse than FM, Freeview, digital satellite, cable and
broadband internet radio

DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:

At the end of the day, 128kbps music stations on DAB sound a lot worse
than they do on FM, and the commercial broadcasters don't want to
increase bit rates (there's loads of unused capacity on multiplexes
now), and the BBC may not be able to increase bit rates if the
commercial radio groups get their way (they are obviously opposed to
the BBC getting any more capacity), and the codec used on DAB is now
very old and mature and is not going to magic up better audio quality
without increasing the bit rates.

Agreed... However, I only listen to Radio 4 (plus Jonathan Ross on Saturday
mornings) in the bedroom and my current £7.99 Homer Simpson-shaped radio is
ok for that. DAB (even at 128kbps) will do very nicely as a replacement!


So, what do you propose should happen when FM is turned off and you've
no longer got decent audio quality on the radio?

What I propose *should* happen is the BBC up the DAB rate to 320kbps on
Radio 4... Can't see it happening though :-( What do you propose should
happen after the FM switch-off?

"Stimpy" wrote in message
...
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:

At the end of the day, 128kbps music stations on DAB sound a lot worse
than they do on FM, and the commercial broadcasters don't want to
increase bit rates (there's loads of unused capacity on multiplexes
now), and the BBC may not be able to increase bit rates if the
commercial radio groups get their way (they are obviously opposed to
the BBC getting any more capacity), and the codec used on DAB is now
very old and mature and is not going to magic up better audio quality
without increasing the bit rates.

Agreed... However, I only listen to Radio 4 (plus Jonathan Ross on
Saturday
mornings) in the bedroom and my current £7.99 Homer Simpson-shaped radio
is
ok for that. DAB (even at 128kbps) will do very nicely as a replacement!


So, what do you propose should happen when FM is turned off and you've
no longer got decent audio quality on the radio?

What I propose *should* happen is the BBC up the DAB rate to 320kbps on
Radio 4... Can't see it happening though :-( What do you propose should
happen after the FM switch-off?



Bluntly, for most of its output (spoken word) 320Kbps would be a waste of
time for R4. 128K for speech is quite adequate.

If they put it up to 256 or 320 for R3, and 192 or higher for R2 then you
would be talking. 160K on ClassicFM really shows up against the others -
think what they would sound like at 256K or higher!


--

Woody

Woody wrote:

If they put it up to 256 or 320 for R3, and 192 or higher for R2 then
you would be talking. 160K on ClassicFM really shows up against the
others - think what they would sound like at 256K or higher!

R3 is better on DAB than on FM. Shame about R4 and R2 (which is /dire/ on
DAB)
--
surely you understand the fundamental questionability of Pre-Crime
methodology

In article , Woody
writes

"Stimpy" wrote in message
...
DAB sounds worse than FM wrote:

At the end of the day, 128kbps music stations on DAB sound a lot worse
than they do on FM, and the commercial broadcasters don't want to
increase bit rates (there's loads of unused capacity on multiplexes
now), and the BBC may not be able to increase bit rates if the
commercial radio groups get their way (they are obviously opposed to
the BBC getting any more capacity), and the codec used on DAB is now
very old and mature and is not going to magic up better audio quality
without increasing the bit rates.

Agreed... However, I only listen to Radio 4 (plus Jonathan Ross on
Saturday
mornings) in the bedroom and my current £7.99 Homer Simpson-shaped radio
is
ok for that. DAB (even at 128kbps) will do very nicely as a replacement!


So, what do you propose should happen when FM is turned off and you've
no longer got decent audio quality on the radio?

What I propose *should* happen is the BBC up the DAB rate to 320kbps on
Radio 4... Can't see it happening though :-( What do you propose should
happen after the FM switch-off?



Bluntly, for most of its output (spoken word) 320Kbps would be a waste of
time for R4. 128K for speech is quite adequate.

If they put it up to 256 or 320 for R3, and 192 or higher for R2 then you
would be talking. 160K on ClassicFM really shows up against the others -
think what they would sound like at 256K or higher!



About as good as 728 NICAM supplied FM
--
Tony Sayer