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Thanks for the helpful comments below - another question I have is if I
would leave a valve amp on all the time or switch it off and have to wait
for it to warm up every time I need it?
cheers

In article ,
StaffBull wrote:
Thanks for the helpful comments below - another question I have is if I
would leave a valve amp on all the time or switch it off and have to wait
for it to warm up every time I need it?

Valves - unlike transistors - have a finite life. And according to some,
modern valves have a shorter life than once was the case.

I'd personally not trust many valve amps to be left on unattended - I've
seen too many go up in smoke. And certainly not a 'budget' valve amp.

--
*Hard work has a future payoff. Laziness pays off NOW.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

I'd personally not trust many valve amps to be left on unattended - I've seen
too many go up in smoke. And certainly not a 'budget' valve amp.

Can't say it's ever happened to me, but the potential is there I suppose. Mind,
these days there should be fuses in strategic places. I tend to turn my amp on
in the morning and turn it off at night. With valve rectifiers there's a nice
slow warm up, so not much harm is done turning the amp off and on if you prefer
to do it more frequently. Valves for the most part are not too expensive -
cheaper probably than the batteries a household uses up in the same time span.
So far they have kept their value so spares can even be something of an
investment if you choose wisely and buy at cheap prices.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

"StaffBull" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the helpful comments below - another question I have is if I
would leave a valve amp on all the time or switch it off and have to wait
for it to warm up every time I need it?

**ALL power amps should be switched off, until they are required for use.
There are several reasons for this:
* Leaving an amp switched on, accelerates wear and tear on several parts. In
SS amps, this means electrolytic caps. In valve amps, this means valves and
electrolytic caps.
* Leaving the amp switched on, leaves the amp open to line surges and
spikes, which may damage equipment.
* Leaving the amp switched on is not environmentally sensitive.

Tell me again why you would buy an amp, without first listening to it?
Tell my why you think this is a good idea?

--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 01:39:29 GMT, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

"StaffBull" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the helpful comments below - another question I have is if I
would leave a valve amp on all the time or switch it off and have to wait
for it to warm up every time I need it?

**ALL power amps should be switched off, until they are required for use.

Hooey.

There are several reasons for this:
* Leaving an amp switched on, accelerates wear and tear on several parts. In
SS amps, this means electrolytic caps. In valve amps, this means valves and
electrolytic caps.

Hooey. If it's not a class A amp, or otherwise warm inside, it puts
less strain on the caps to leave them switched on. Start-up surges are
a major cause of cap failure.

My Audiolab 8000P has been switched on for about eight years, and
works just fine. I don't leave the Krell switched on, because it's a
true class A design, and pulls 300 watts from the wall at idle!

* Leaving the amp switched on, leaves the amp open to line surges and
spikes, which may damage equipment.

Only badly designed equipment, and not everywhere has such crappy
mains that this is an issue.

* Leaving the amp switched on is not environmentally sensitive.

Neither is farting, but I doubt it's a major issue.

Tell me again why you would buy an amp, without first listening to it?
Tell my why you think this is a good idea?

Seems like a bad idea - much like attempting to drive any decent
speaker with a cheap valve amp, when the same money would buy you a
sonically transparent SS amp.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

In article , Trevor Wilson
wrote:

"StaffBull" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the helpful comments below - another question I have is if
I would leave a valve amp on all the time or switch it off and have to
wait for it to warm up every time I need it?

**ALL power amps should be switched off, until they are required for
use. There are several reasons for this: * Leaving an amp switched on,
accelerates wear and tear on several parts. In SS amps, this means
electrolytic caps.

I would quibble a bit with this. :-)

IIUC Electrolytic caps also deteriorate if *not* used for prolonged
periods. Provided they are used well within their ratings, being charged up
means they should have a 'self healing' tendency for minor electronic
leakages. Hence, left unused they may show a fall in capacity and rise in
leakage current. This should recover with use, though.

Above said, the 'goop' that is inside them does deteriorate with age, use,
and temperature. Hence using them does wear them out. Should be quite a
slow process if they are well built and cautiously rated, though.

FWIW I just turn on the amps before use, and turn them off afterwards. Mind
you, I am happy with SS amps, and don't normally notice any signs of
'warming up' over a long period. With a valve amp, I'd probably be inclined
to switch them on 10 mins before use, and off after use. Dislike leaving
things like this powered up unattended due to the risk of failures. Small
risk probability, but the 'cost' of a house fire can be quite large! Prefer
peace of mind.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"Trevor Wilson" wrote

**ALL power amps should be switched off, until they are required for use.
There are several reasons

snipped but agreed with entirely

Tell me again why you would buy an amp, without first listening to it?
Tell my why you think this is a good idea?

OK, Trevor, you're not getting a nibble so I'll respond:

Firstly, as the OP is in N Wales I think you should be a little less
sheepish, ram your point home a bit harder and qualify your question thus:
'Tell my why ewe think this is a good idea, if ewe don't hear the amp first
ewe could get the wool pulled over your eyes and someone will fleece ewe...'

(Shear common sense for an Ozzie, I would'a thought...??)

:-)

Secondly, it is not easy to get an audition of valve gear in the UK without
going to an 'audio boutique' which are few and far between and where the
prices are sky-high in any case. Hence a lot of people, looking to get into
valves are 'taking a flyer' and buying from eBay, the Net, mail order and
secondhand. This is the reason a lot of valvies (me included) have been
willing to invite people in and hear our own valve gear where they can get a
good listen without any obligation to spend money.

This has been very successful for me and I have had a number of visits that
have all been very pleasant and have actually ended up with one or two
people buying valve gear. At any rate, no-one has told me yet that they
didn't like valves!! (I have only had one instance where someone appears to
have been a bit two-faced/indiscrete and that wasn't even a 'valve
auditioner'!)

However, having said all that, I for one am a becoming a bit reluctant to
recommend valves to all and sundry as:

1) The prices will go up as valves become more popular (as they have with
secondhand vinyl, which is now about 10 times more expensive in charity
shops in the UK than it was a couple of years ago....), NOS valves will
disappear more quickly and the increasing popularity will encourage more
crap onto the market. (Offsetting this, of course, is that the same
popularity will ensure better continuity of supply generally....)

2) Valves take a lot more 'work' than ss gear - normally beyond the scope of
'box openers' if anything goes wrong. OK if a support structure establishes
itself - I already know one UK valve amp builder who is doing nicely out of
fettling cheap, new foreign amps or, as in the case of our own Fleetie, you
are able to get the spanners out if anything goes tits-up which, of course,
it can/probably will at some point.....

3) There is also the possibility that the greater danger of valves (heat,
voltages and even the greater weight of valve amps) will result in some
divot getting badly hurt and a great raft of legislation swinging into place
to control everything that will sweep away the good guys with the bad guys
like it's doing with everything else these days!

The current influx of cheap Chinky amps is both a good and bad thing (for
various reasons mentioned above) but I gotta say finally that I have yet to
hear a valve amp that didn't comprehensively **** all over most ss amps I've
heard in terms of 'listenability' - ie where the 'music' counts more than
the 'sound quality'......

(My 2p only....)

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 01:39:29 GMT, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

"StaffBull" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the helpful comments below - another question I have is if
I
would leave a valve amp on all the time or switch it off and have to
wait
for it to warm up every time I need it?

**ALL power amps should be switched off, until they are required for use.

Hooey.

Not hooey - all electrical items (without a built in timer needing stanby
current) should be switched off if not in use, including amplifiers. (Ask
your insurers.....)

My Audiolab 8000P has been switched on for about eight years, and
works just fine. I don't leave the Krell switched on, because it's a
true class A design, and pulls 300 watts from the wall at idle!

Presumably the Krell doesn't suffer from being switched off then? Or does it
take that bit longer to strike an arc.....???

;-)

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 01:39:29 GMT, "Trevor Wilson"
wrote:

"StaffBull" wrote in message
...
Thanks for the helpful comments below - another question I have is
if
I
would leave a valve amp on all the time or switch it off and have to
wait
for it to warm up every time I need it?

**ALL power amps should be switched off, until they are required for
use.

Hooey.

Not hooey - all electrical items (without a built in timer needing stanby
current) should be switched off if not in use, including amplifiers. (Ask
your insurers.....)

My Audiolab 8000P has been switched on for about eight years, and
works just fine. I don't leave the Krell switched on, because it's a
true class A design, and pulls 300 watts from the wall at idle!

Presumably the Krell doesn't suffer from being switched off then? Or does
it
take that bit longer to strike an arc.....???

;-)

...with carbon rods.... for home cinema. ;-)

Hello Keith - I'm not sure about some of what you write he
1) The prices will go up as valves become more popular
Prices for new production Russian, Czech and Chinese valves are pretty static,
and there is a mountain of common valves out there (viz. guitar amp and hifi
models like ECC***, 6L6GT, EL34 etc). Several mountains of less common valves,
to the point that dealers just junk a lot of types to save rental on keeping
them.
(as they have with secondhand vinyl, which is now about 10 times more
expensive in charity shops in the UK than it was a couple of years ago....)
?????? all my information is that common vinyl, e.g. classical orchestral, is
rock bottom. Jazz and pop is different, since this is now 'collectors' rather
than consumer. Just try and sell a collection of 1,000 classical LPs (I have
such a collection to sell - please give me 10 times what they were worth a
couple of years ago!)
NOS valves will disappear more quickly
Remember that vast quantities are being hoarded by valve users. And anyway, new
production (EH, JJ, EI, Svetlana etc) is getting better and better and new
types are being manufactured every year. This year sees, for instance, the 7591
and 7868 from Eh and JJ, plus new and greatly improved Chinese 845s.
and the increasing popularity will encourage more crap onto the market
Well, so far, more good stuff has come onto the market including some very fine
new valves as above.
(Offsetting this, of course, is that the same popularity will ensure better
continuity of supply generally....) Agreed

2) Valves take a lot more 'work' than ss gear Agreed
OK if a support structure establishes
itself There is a good support structure - less than before but maybe
something like Leica owners or classic car builders.

3) There is also the possibility that the greater danger of valves will result
in a great raft of legislation swinging into place
Why wouldn't this have happened already in the century or so of valve use? Why
would a government even bother with such a small issue these days?

I think we bottleheads are ultimately going to become rarities, but the sound
of valves lives on - musicians love them and use them, and a number of musical
listeners, as you say, find they come closest to the sound they find represents
the "musical experience". I think digital amps are coming up fast and I'd see
the future there rather than in analogue SS. Some digital amps sound rather
fine. But valves will live on simply because of the investment people have made
in them. I'd bet that when valve equipment becomes rare there will still be a
mountain of unused valves out there. Andy

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.