On Fri, 6 Aug 2004 16:56:06 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

Anyway, up 'till I took some half decent phono cables (Qunex, IIRC) down
last night he's been using it with a red/white/yellow bootlace cable on
Component Video. We swapped the cables last night and *kaboom* - wot a
difference!! Much, much sharper, if nothing else!

Yes, you'd reasonably expect that. A red/white/yellow cable is a
crappy device intended for connecting stero audio and composite video,
and is most certainly *not* suitable for component video, where you
should be using three 75-ohm cables of the same length.

OK, I know this is video and not audio (don't even know if Component Out is
analogue or digital!) but if this upgrade could much such an improvement,
surely the same goes for audio information? (I might be a bit lost
discerning nuances in sound quality differences but I got no problem with
visuals!)

No, the same does *not* go for audio. Component video is analogue,
unlike HDMI and DVI, which are digital. Analogue video signals run up
to 1,000 times higher in frequency than audio, which not surprisingly
makes a difference. You can easily tell differences among video
cables, but no one has *ever* been able to prove an ability to *hear*
differences among cables.

Also I would mention that there was/is no significant difference in picture
quality between a £40 Chy Knees DVD** (daren't say Chinky any more!! :-)
and a much more expensive Japper Knees machine (Sony 725 or summat
similar).....

There are detectable video differences among DVD players, but
presumably these aren't two of them! :-)
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

In article ,
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

You can easily tell differences among video
cables, but no one has *ever* been able to prove an ability to *hear*
differences among cables.

I thinks you've left out 'adequately specced cables'. Some old valve
equipment had high output impedance, and using some interconnects could
result in a treble loss. You can also get effects with some types of
pickup cartridges.

--
*In some places, C:\ is the root of all directories *

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:29:42 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

You can easily tell differences among video
cables, but no one has *ever* been able to prove an ability to *hear*
differences among cables.

I thinks you've left out 'adequately specced cables'. Some old valve
equipment had high output impedance, and using some interconnects could
result in a treble loss. You can also get effects with some types of
pickup cartridges.

To actually get treble loss from an interconnect, its characteristic
impedance must be lower than the terminating impedances. Most
(excluding woven Goertz) speaker cable has a characteristic impedance
in the 70 to 100 ohm range, and can't possible cause such an effect.
Of course you may reduce the treble *lift* inherent in such cables.

Of course at lower audio frequencies the impedance deviates markedly
from that value by virtue of resistive terms becoming dominant, but
the change is still higher, rather than lower impedance, so the top
cut still can't happen.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote in message

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:29:42 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

You can easily tell differences among video
cables, but no one has *ever* been able to prove an ability to
*hear* differences among cables.

I thinks you've left out 'adequately specced cables'. Some old valve
equipment had high output impedance, and using some interconnects
could result in a treble loss. You can also get effects with some
types of pickup cartridges.

Agreed. In fact it's pretty easy to change the high end response of a Shure
V15 enough to hear in a DBT, by switching in and out a few feet of regular
interconnect. Been there, done that.

To actually get treble loss from an interconnect, its characteristic
impedance must be lower than the terminating impedances.

Which begs the question of the terminating impedance of a line level input,
or a phono input.

Most common audio cables have characteristic impedances on the order of 50
to a few hundred ohms.

Most line and phono inputs would seem to have characteristics that are far
higher.

It seems like the condition of "characteristic impedance must be lower
than the terminating impedances" is usually satisfied at the load end.

Which begs the question of the source impedance of a line level input, or a
phono input.

A line level output can have a source impedance that is all over the map,
running from maybe 50 ohms to several thousand ohms. A moving-magnet phono
cartridge would generally be higher than that.

Most (excluding woven Goertz) speaker cable has a characteristic impedance
in the 70 to 100 ohm range, and can't possible cause such an effect.

That's speaker cable. Isn't the discussion here about line level and phono
level interconnects?

On Sat, 7 Aug 2004 06:51:14 -0400, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

"Don Pearce" wrote in message

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:29:42 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

You can easily tell differences among video
cables, but no one has *ever* been able to prove an ability to
*hear* differences among cables.

I thinks you've left out 'adequately specced cables'. Some old valve
equipment had high output impedance, and using some interconnects
could result in a treble loss. You can also get effects with some
types of pickup cartridges.

Agreed. In fact it's pretty easy to change the high end response of a Shure
V15 enough to hear in a DBT, by switching in and out a few feet of regular
interconnect. Been there, done that.

To actually get treble loss from an interconnect, its characteristic
impedance must be lower than the terminating impedances.

Which begs the question of the terminating impedance of a line level input,
or a phono input.

Most common audio cables have characteristic impedances on the order of 50
to a few hundred ohms.

Most line and phono inputs would seem to have characteristics that are far
higher.

It seems like the condition of "characteristic impedance must be lower
than the terminating impedances" is usually satisfied at the load end.

Which begs the question of the source impedance of a line level input, or a
phono input.

A line level output can have a source impedance that is all over the map,
running from maybe 50 ohms to several thousand ohms. A moving-magnet phono
cartridge would generally be higher than that.

Most (excluding woven Goertz) speaker cable has a characteristic impedance
in the 70 to 100 ohm range, and can't possible cause such an effect.

That's speaker cable. Isn't the discussion here about line level and phono
level interconnects?



Not for this bit of the thread, I was answering the comment about
treble loss from cables when a valve amp has a high output impedance.
As for line levels, matched cables and matched terminating impedances
are always best for several reasons. Flatness over long distances is
one, of course, but also when equipment has an input impedance of 50
(or 600) ohms, you can leave it open circuit without any worries of
hum pickup.

Of course the day happened long ago when some studio engineer
discovered that if you removed the 600 ohm terminator from an input,
you got 6dB more level - bonus, he thought, and all the trouble
started.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
I thinks you've left out 'adequately specced cables'. Some old valve
equipment had high output impedance, and using some interconnects
could result in a treble loss. You can also get effects with some
types of pickup cartridges.

Agreed. In fact it's pretty easy to change the high end response of a
Shure V15 enough to hear in a DBT, by switching in and out a few feet of
regular interconnect. Been there, done that.

Yup. I found it improved - subjectively - a G800 I bought while the Decca
was sent for overhaul. A few years ago, obviously. ;-)

--
*I'm out of my mind, but feel free to leave a message.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:29:42 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
wrote:

In article ,
Stewart Pinkerton wrote:

You can easily tell differences among video
cables, but no one has *ever* been able to prove an ability to *hear*
differences among cables.

I thinks you've left out 'adequately specced cables'. Some old valve
equipment had high output impedance, and using some interconnects could
result in a treble loss. You can also get effects with some types of
pickup cartridges.

That's true, but I'm talking about so-called 'audiophile' cables,
specifically interconnects and speaker cables, not the kind of gross
treble effects you can get in the situations you describe above. These
problems are easily sorted, and have nothing to do with the rubbish
claims of people like Kimber, Cardas, MIT, Audioquest etc etc.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering