On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:27:59 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Murphy"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:45:29 +0100, Eiron wrote:

Nope, the last *significant* improvement in CD quality happened around
1990, when 'bitstream' converters came in. A cheap modern Technics CD
player is very close to sounding as good as anything you can buy at
any price.

I have a cheap modern Technics CD player (2002) which is
vastly improved by the addition of a Meridian 203 DAC.

********. Don't forget I used to *own* a 203 DAC, and it didn't make a
whit of difference to the sound of either my Marantz CD-94 or my Sony
CDP 715E. It's all in your imagination - which is fine, but don't
confuse that with anything in the physical soundfield.

In
fact I have two such setups which I consider superior to my
Marantz 6000 CD player. An additional bonus is that the
Technics will play any CD-R's without quibble whereas the
Marantz is very picky.

That's certainly a solid practical difference.


No wonder you can't hear the difference between cables, Stew :-)

As with so many, you have a vivid imagination. As you surely already
know, I'll gladly give you £1,000 if *you* can hear any difference
between cables.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:08:39 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Murphy"
wrote:

"Eiron" wrote in message
...

If you are in the Midlands, I have a pair of Mordaunt-Short MS3.40's
with stands you can have for 50 quid.
(Never been thrashed, full service history.)
--
Eiron.

Add a cheap new CD player (£50) with a Meridian 203
DAC (£100 Ebay) and a Pioneer A400 (£75 Ebay) or
similar (Nad 3020 £40 Ebay) amplifier and you have
better than decent sound for less than £300.

Better still, buy a £150 CD player............

Better again, go to Richer Sounds and buy:

Cambridge Audio CD5 - £99.95

Cambridge Audio A300 - £139.95

Mordaunt-Short MS906 - 349.95 (black or maple)

I'm sure if you buy the whole system, they'll throw in all the cables
you need. Total outlay of less than 600 squids, all new gear, and
top-class sound by any reasonable standard.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:02:33 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:

Better again, go to Richer Sounds and buy:

Cambridge Audio CD5 - £99.95

Cambridge Audio A300 - £139.95

Mordaunt-Short MS906 - 349.95 (black or maple)

I'm sure if you buy the whole system, they'll throw in all the cables
you need. Total outlay of less than 600 squids, all new gear, and
top-class sound by any reasonable standard.

A tad more than the OP's budget of £200, though ;-)

I don't think that's enough to start buying separates, to be honest. Each
component will likely be so cheap that the first upgrade will show up the
rest of the system. Something like a Denon DM-31 would be a much better use
of the money. Okay it's not upgradeable but it should give good sound for a
long time and will always find a good home somewhere in a house.

--
I want to be a modirater when I grow up.

Mail john rather than nospam...

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:08:39 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Murphy"
wrote:

"Eiron" wrote in message
...

If you are in the Midlands, I have a pair of Mordaunt-Short MS3.40's
with stands you can have for 50 quid.
(Never been thrashed, full service history.)
--
Eiron.

Add a cheap new CD player (£50) with a Meridian 203
DAC (£100 Ebay) and a Pioneer A400 (£75 Ebay) or
similar (Nad 3020 £40 Ebay) amplifier and you have
better than decent sound for less than £300.

Better still, buy a £150 CD player............

Better again, go to Richer Sounds and buy:

Cambridge Audio CD5 - £99.95

Cambridge Audio A300 - £139.95

Mordaunt-Short MS906 - 349.95 (black or maple)

I'm sure if you buy the whole system, they'll throw in all the cables
you need. Total outlay of less than 600 squids, all new gear, and
top-class sound by any reasonable standard.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

600 squids? His budget is £200. Do three of your squids equal
one of his pounds?

From your comments you clearly have ears of cloth. I'm beginning
to sympathise with Trotsky :-)

Alan.

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:27:59 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Murphy"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:45:29 +0100, Eiron wrote:

Nope, the last *significant* improvement in CD quality happened around
1990, when 'bitstream' converters came in. A cheap modern Technics CD
player is very close to sounding as good as anything you can buy at
any price.

I have a cheap modern Technics CD player (2002) which is
vastly improved by the addition of a Meridian 203 DAC.

********. Don't forget I used to *own* a 203 DAC, and it didn't make a
whit of difference to the sound of either my Marantz CD-94 or my Sony
CDP 715E. It's all in your imagination - which is fine, but don't
confuse that with anything in the physical soundfield.

In
fact I have two such setups which I consider superior to my
Marantz 6000 CD player. An additional bonus is that the
Technics will play any CD-R's without quibble whereas the
Marantz is very picky.

That's certainly a solid practical difference.


No wonder you can't hear the difference between cables, Stew :-)

As with so many, you have a vivid imagination. As you surely already
know, I'll gladly give you £1,000 if *you* can hear any difference
between cables.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Forget the cables. You'll no doubt be farting around balancing
the output level to +/- 0.1 decibel to make the test impractical.

I'll bet you an even £1000 that on my system, playing my
music, I can tell the difference between a Technics CD player
SL-PG490 alone, and the same player with a Meridian DAC
203 optically connected, in more than 67% instances.

Alan.

John Laird wrote:
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:02:33 +0000 (UTC), Stewart Pinkerton
wrote:


Better again, go to Richer Sounds and buy:

Cambridge Audio CD5 - £99.95

Cambridge Audio A300 - £139.95

Mordaunt-Short MS906 - 349.95 (black or maple)

I'm sure if you buy the whole system, they'll throw in all the cables
you need. Total outlay of less than 600 squids, all new gear, and
top-class sound by any reasonable standard.


A tad more than the OP's budget of £200, though ;-)

I don't think that's enough to start buying separates, to be honest. Each
component will likely be so cheap that the first upgrade will show up the
rest of the system. Something like a Denon DM-31 would be a much better use
of the money. Okay it's not upgradeable but it should give good sound for a
long time and will always find a good home somewhere in a house.


I reckon for £200, the OP would be able to put together a system that is
better than a similarly priced mini system (and let's face it, budget
hi-fi prices in UK are a bargain compared to Oz)

£100 for the CD player and amp (look around Ebay or 2nd hand) and the
speakers for £100 (or more, if the OP can stretch the budget).

The first system I actually paid for consisted of a 2nd hand amp and CD
player, and a discounted speaker model for £250. Admittedly, I paid too
much for the amp and CD player (I was going through a nostalgic trip
through early 90s What Hi-Fi mags and decided to get the components I
couldn't afford back then)

I actually wanted to get a Denon DM-31 at first, but the version they
exported to Oz didn't come with the Mission speakers (they had some
really poor Denon speakers), so I said, "stuff it, let's see what
separates system I can put together for the same amount of cash!"

I never looked back. My next upgrade would be improving the conditions
of my listening room.

Alan Murphy wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...


As with so many, you have a vivid imagination. As you surely already
know, I'll gladly give you £1,000 if *you* can hear any difference
between cables.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering


Forget the cables. You'll no doubt be farting around balancing
the output level to +/- 0.1 decibel to make the test impractical.


Alan, matching the output levels is essential to making any valid
comparison between components.

After all, hi-fi tends to sound better at louder levels than lower ones
(up to a certain limit, of course)

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:36:53 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Murphy"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 08:08:39 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Murphy"
wrote:

"Eiron" wrote in message
...

If you are in the Midlands, I have a pair of Mordaunt-Short MS3.40's
with stands you can have for 50 quid.
(Never been thrashed, full service history.)
--
Eiron.

Add a cheap new CD player (£50) with a Meridian 203
DAC (£100 Ebay) and a Pioneer A400 (£75 Ebay) or
similar (Nad 3020 £40 Ebay) amplifier and you have
better than decent sound for less than £300.

Better still, buy a £150 CD player............

Better again, go to Richer Sounds and buy:

Cambridge Audio CD5 - £99.95

Cambridge Audio A300 - £139.95

Mordaunt-Short MS906 - 349.95 (black or maple)

I'm sure if you buy the whole system, they'll throw in all the cables
you need. Total outlay of less than 600 squids, all new gear, and
top-class sound by any reasonable standard.
--
600 squids? His budget is £200. Do three of your squids equal
one of his pounds?

Name one person who ever went into a hi-fi store and didn't blow his
budget! :-)

He could start with the electronics and Eirons MS3.40s, and get better
speakers as funds allow.

From your comments you clearly have ears of cloth. I'm beginning
to sympathise with Trotsky :-)

From your comments you clearly have guts of jelly - or are you backing
off your comments about 'cable sound'?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 19:37:29 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Murphy"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:27:59 +0000 (UTC), "Alan Murphy"
wrote:

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:45:29 +0100, Eiron wrote:

Nope, the last *significant* improvement in CD quality happened around
1990, when 'bitstream' converters came in. A cheap modern Technics CD
player is very close to sounding as good as anything you can buy at
any price.

I have a cheap modern Technics CD player (2002) which is
vastly improved by the addition of a Meridian 203 DAC.

********. Don't forget I used to *own* a 203 DAC, and it didn't make a
whit of difference to the sound of either my Marantz CD-94 or my Sony
CDP 715E. It's all in your imagination - which is fine, but don't
confuse that with anything in the physical soundfield.

In
fact I have two such setups which I consider superior to my
Marantz 6000 CD player. An additional bonus is that the
Technics will play any CD-R's without quibble whereas the
Marantz is very picky.

That's certainly a solid practical difference.

No wonder you can't hear the difference between cables, Stew :-)

As with so many, you have a vivid imagination. As you surely already
know, I'll gladly give you £1,000 if *you* can hear any difference
between cables.

Forget the cables. You'll no doubt be farting around balancing
the output level to +/- 0.1 decibel to make the test impractical.

Almost all cables don't need any 'farting about' to achieve that
requirement, and level difference has *nothing* to do with the claims
made for 'high end' cables. Noted that you back off rapidly when
challenged on your snide comments.

I'll bet you an even £1000 that on my system, playing my
music, I can tell the difference between a Technics CD player
SL-PG490 alone, and the same player with a Meridian DAC
203 optically connected, in more than 67% instances.

Done, given that the levels are equalised, but you'll need to achieve
that in thirty trials for statistical significance. Two out of three
won't do!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...

Done, given that the levels are equalised, but you'll need to achieve
that in thirty trials for statistical significance. Two out of three
won't do!
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Hiding behind equalisation again, Stew.