In article , Dave Plowman (News)
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf
wrote:
My recollection is that the 33 does not have a very flat response even
with the controls set as near flat as possible compared with more
modern units. FWIW my experience is that even quite small changes in
overall response can be audible.

It has, of course, got a tone control bypass switch.

You are correct. :-) Must admit I'd forgotten that the 'cancel' button
defeated the tone controls as well as the HF filter.

However I am not sure that it also bypasses the LF filter that has a set
rolloff, nor the tendency for the preamp to roll away at HF. The 'flat'
specs I have for it say +/-0.5 dB from 30Hz to 20kHz. However I'd tend to
suspect that this would allow for a response that was audibly different
from +/- 0.1 dB 20Hz to 20kHz, albiet quite a modest change compared with
something like a speaker. Certainly my recollection is that this is the
case with the 33, but I haven't listened to or measured one for many years.

IIRC, the pickup preamp had distinctly marginal headroom on the 33.

Depends upon the settings on the 'hoovermatic' card I guess. :-) The specs
I have say only 40mV overload for the 2mV sensitivity MM input, and 120mV
for the 5.6mV sensitivity, but does not indicate how this may vary with
frequency.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

"harrogate2" wrote in message
...
I must admit that I have never subscribed to the 'golden ear' brigade.


Believe it - they exist. I once asked my partner (musician) to stop me when
I had increased the sound from a Technics deck (with pitch sliders) by a
semitone by 'blind' listening alone - she stopped me at virtually *dead on*
+ 6%!! (On many other occasions she has been able point out subtle
differences in sounds that I hadn't heard up 'til then but which became
immediately obvious.....)

Me? - I've no idea and never trust my own hearing beyond 'liking/preferring'
or 'not liking/not preferring' a sound. Which is why I often quote the
remarks of others who claim (and seem) to have better 'listening' abilities.
Much as some here don't want to hear it, I only decide on 'improvements' (or
otherwise) over an extended listening period with a range of very familiar
music. But then I go a long way matching components to produce a similar
'house' sound anyway and will only say that, AFAIAC, an amp is only one half
of the vital and inseparable amp/speakers combination in any given listening
room, in any case...


snip

The change to the NAD was more subtle but still noticable. Certainly
the top end was more detailed (cymbals and triangles show things up
remarkably well) and the bass was noticably deeper but not so 'in your
face' (I like classical organ music.) Again however the frequency
response and phase responses were almost identical to the other two.

Anyone any polite suggestions as to cause? Even my wife and children
(then teenagers) noticed the difference without asking or prompting.


Well if the 'all good amps sound the same' mantra is true (a good example of
the 'banging on' we hear so much about...) it kinda infers that at least one
of your amps isn't too good, doesn't it? Also that manufacturers using
different components, circuit topologies and architecture must, for the
greater part, be simply ****ing in the breeze if all they do is achieve
another version of exactly the same sound...??

To me it's quite simple - I definitely hear no difference between SS amps
from, say, £150 and up other than sheer volume, but I don't think any two
different valve amps will sound exactly the same and even identical models
can easily be 'tuned' to be different by swapping valves and other
components. This is a great part of the appeal for me - they allow me to
'tweak' a sound that I like and which I think sounds best or faithful
according to *my* own ideas.

What's scary is just how quickly I can accomodate to the sound of different
systems and it indicates to me that, for all the talk of 'fidelity' to
mastertapes (real or imagined) or live events (whether attended or not),
that we *all* do a lot of kidding ourselves that we have *neutral* and
'accurate' systems.....

Moreover, I don't think that one amp/speaker combination is ever likely to
be 'ideal' for *all* different types of music and prefer to run a number of
different setups (there will be 4 of them on the go, later this afternoon)
for different types of music - choirs or solo female vocals accompanied by
an acoustic guitar vs. electronic dance/trance/techno being two fairly good
examples of music that benefit from quite different setups IMO...

But then, that's just me.... :-)

On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:52:37 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

"harrogate2" wrote in message
...
I must admit that I have never subscribed to the 'golden ear' brigade.

Believe it - they exist. I once asked my partner (musician) to stop me when
I had increased the sound from a Technics deck (with pitch sliders) by a
semitone by 'blind' listening alone - she stopped me at virtually *dead on*
+ 6%!! (On many other occasions she has been able point out subtle
differences in sounds that I hadn't heard up 'til then but which became
immediately obvious.....)

Many people are blessed/cursed with perfect pitch. That doesn't
actually make them any better at distinguishing tonal differences in
reproduction gear. Note that, once your attention had been drawn to
subtle differences, you too could hear them. This is a matter of
concentration and experience, not hearing acuity.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:52:37 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:

"harrogate2" wrote in message
...
I must admit that I have never subscribed to the 'golden ear' brigade.

Believe it - they exist. I once asked my partner (musician) to stop me
when
I had increased the sound from a Technics deck (with pitch sliders) by a
semitone by 'blind' listening alone - she stopped me at virtually *dead
on*
+ 6%!! (On many other occasions she has been able point out subtle
differences in sounds that I hadn't heard up 'til then but which became
immediately obvious.....)

Many people are blessed/cursed with perfect pitch. That doesn't
actually make them any better at distinguishing tonal differences in
reproduction gear. Note that, once your attention had been drawn to
subtle differences, you too could hear them. This is a matter of
concentration and experience, not hearing acuity.


Swim doesn't have perfect pitch (I asked) she says she could not sing a
given note with any geat accuracy, she says what she can do better than most
is detect tiny amounts of sharp and flatness from a given note....

I've just asked her to name the amp and speakers on a piece of music just
now - see:

http://www.apah69.dsl.pipex.com/keit...akerlineup.jpg

(no way she could tell what the speakers were being used and was outside the
room in any case) - she said 'Tommy Triode' and the 'Thinnies' (2A3 amp and
JM-Lab Chorus 715s - a very good combination)...

Er, no, it was/is the new Chinese amp on the Wharfedale Diamond 8.2s playing
a CD (Agram) on a Pioneer DVDP!!!! (*Blistering* performance!!!) Good start
to my 'experimentations if not a complete show-stopper, first time out,
dammit!!! :-)



Note to Fleetie - This little bugger is STAGGERINGLY good in its own right,
never mind the price....

Note to Mike - I've peeked in the ventilation slots underneath and it's all
PCB but the wiring looks quite superb - rows of *perfectly* aligned/stood
off resistors with lovely-looking solder for example and the PT is quite
massive but, sorry, but there's no way I'm pulling this to bits! (Might
photograph the innards tho', once the novelty has worn off!)

Note to Phil North - don't **** about, grab that one off eBay for £213 while
you can - I've already had a 'Question from eBay Member' from someone asking
about them!

Note to Nick - It *is* superb, but we're talking 'hard-arsed digital' here -
it is *not* my triode/vinyl sound!! ;-)

Just Askin' wrote:

It would only produce the *exact same* voltage pattern, if it were the
*exact same* amp, good or otherwise.

Yeah, and we all know you've got the mysterious Vorlon electron
recyclign machine in your back garden so that you can repeat the test
with the same electrons.

Muppet.