In article , Andy Evans
wrote:
From a man who will not / can not even measure the performance of his
own design

Let me repeat for the nth time where n is a large number that I have
nothing against engineering whatsoever, and I go out of my way to have
my amps measured on scopes and distortion meters.

As for "up-to-date" and valve technology

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Check posts on audio Asylum.

I presume that means that ECC83s, 12AT7s, EL43s and the like are not to
be found in your designs?

Correct. I've already given a list of valves that sound better. If you
want references: a) Valve Amplifiers, Ed. 3 Morgan Jones b)
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?...hlight=6sn7+th
orsten&r=&session c)
http://www.geocities.com/la1zka/hifi/distortion.html d)
http://www.enteract.com/~joepage/tubelist.htm
http://users.rcn.com/joepage

The copy of Morgan-Jones that I have only gives data for types of valve
that look 'old' to me - ones I recognise from designs back in the pre
1960's. However if I get a chance I'll look at the above references.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

The copy of Morgan-Jones that I have only gives data for types of valve that
look 'old' to me - ones I recognise from designs back in the pre 1960's.
However if I get a chance I'll look at the above references.

The distortion figures are in ed. 3. There are new valves - the ECC99 is one,
and also all the 'new' ones that came out of Russia relatively recently - 6N30,
6N6, 6N1P, 6C45, 6C33, 6C19 etc which are now very widely used to replace older
'western' valves (ARC, BAT etc) But it's the implementation that is more
recent. I don't know of designs in the 60s that used CCSs for instance, and not
many that used mu stages, mu followers, cascode first stages in amplifiers and
such things which are now common circuit choices.Some older designs have been
resurrected with new feautures - interstages with cobalt, nickel, silver etc. I
was making the point that while we do see Mullard circuits and Williamsons,
there's a lot of other things. I could go on a bit - Steve Bench's amp with no
capacitors and resistors - just iron (!) Bruce Rozenblit's patent for OTLs,
developments of DC coupling to the output stage ("the free lunch") . Not earth
shattering, but there has been steady work on developing new ieas or adapting
old ones. Van der Veen, of course, titles his book "Modern High-end Valve
Amplifiers" so he must think so. Andy

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

In article , Andy Evans
wrote:
The copy of Morgan-Jones that I have only gives data for types of valve
that look 'old' to me - ones I recognise from designs back in the pre
1960's. However if I get a chance I'll look at the above references.

The distortion figures are in ed. 3. There are new valves - the ECC99 is
one, and also all the 'new' ones that came out of Russia relatively
recently - 6N30, 6N6, 6N1P, 6C45, 6C33, 6C19 etc which are now very
widely used to replace older 'western' valves (ARC, BAT etc) But it's
the implementation that is more recent.

I've encountered some of the Russian high-current / high voltage valves,
but only in things like the power and driving systems for beam tubes, etc,
for producing high power mm-wave pulses. Did wonder about the use of some
of them in power amps.


I don't know of designs in the 60s that used CCSs for instance, and not
many that used mu stages, mu followers, cascode first stages in
amplifiers and such things which are now common circuit choices.Some
older designs have been resurrected with new feautures - interstages
with cobalt, nickel, silver etc.

Do you know of any data on these that show measurements of nonlinearity,
etc in such transformers?

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

On 22 Oct, wrote:
In article , Andy Evans
wrote:


As for "up-to-date" and valve technology

Yes, that's exactly what I said. Check posts on audio Asylum.

I presume that means that ECC83s, 12AT7s, EL43s and the like are not
to be found in your designs?

Correct. I've already given a list of valves that sound better. If you
want references: a) Valve Amplifiers, Ed. 3 Morgan Jones b)
http://www.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.pl?...hlight=6sn7+th
orsten&r=&session c)
http://www.geocities.com/la1zka/hifi/distortion.html d)
http://www.enteract.com/~joepage/tubelist.htm
http://users.rcn.com/joepage

The copy of Morgan-Jones that I have only gives data for types of valve
that look 'old' to me - ones I recognise from designs back in the pre
1960's. However if I get a chance I'll look at the above references.

Thanks again for the above info.

I've now had a chance to look at the above, and to look at a few pages on
the ECC99 as an example of what someone called a 'new' valve. However the
only distortion data on the ECC99 was on one of the above pages, but I
didn't see the signal amplitude. Also, I didn't find any info on
when/how/who for the ECC99, nor any design details that explain in what
ways this is designed and built significantly differently to older designs.
Can someone suggest a URL for this? I'd be interested to see in what
specific ways the construction is 'new', and what effect this has upon the
actual characteristics of the valve.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

I've now had a chance to look at the above, and to look at a few pages on
the ECC99 as an example of what someone called a 'new' valve.

It's a new valve in the sense that it was newly designed, not necessaruly 'a
new design'. 'A new car' for example is seldom a radical departure from the
models that preceded it.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

In article ,
Andy Evans wrote:
I've now had a chance to look at the above, and to look at a few pages on
the ECC99 as an example of what someone called a 'new' valve.

It's a new valve in the sense that it was newly designed, not
necessaruly 'a new design'. 'A new car' for example is seldom a radical
departure from the models that preceded it.

Most new cars these days offer some improvements in their performance over
the older model.

Just what improvements does this valve offer over its predecessor(s)?

Or is it simply in this season's colours?

--
*There are 3 kinds of people: those who can count & those who can't.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Just what improvements does this valve offer over its predecessor(s)?

The advantages of the ECC99 a
a) 12a*7 type base, so can sub
b) Better lower mu valve than the 12AU7
c) Very low distortion levels - beats all the others with this kind of mu and
base
d) Sounds good
e) Useful in certain places, e.g. good phase splitter.
f) Good current output.
There are good equivalents, but not exactly the same with this pinout.

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Andy Evans wrote:

d) Sounds good

What *exactly* does it sound like?

other than a tinkle and pop sound when you drop them, valves are silent.

Ian Molton wrote:

other than a tinkle and pop sound when you drop them, valves are
silent.

Not if you unplug the speaker and crank the amp up.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

other than a tinkle and pop sound when you drop them, valves are silent.

This sounds remarkably like the answer to "the food is ready!" - "food can't be
ready, only humans can be ready"

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.