On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:05:27 +0100, "The EggKing"
wrote:

Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined? As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

Does this make sense and is it true?

Yes, although not 'definition', just more extended treble, hence the
existence of 'audiophile' 12" 45s by RCA and others. OTOH, surface
noise is higher, so you pays your money and takes your choice.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:05:27 +0100, "The EggKing"
wrote:

Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined? As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

Does this make sense and is it true?

Yes, although not 'definition', just more extended treble,


Bull****.


hence the
existence of 'audiophile' 12" 45s by RCA and others. OTOH, surface
noise is higher,


More bull****.

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:05:27 +0100, "The EggKing"
wrote:

Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds);
Does the fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is
more defined? As you're covering more distance with the same amount
of information you can get better definition, i.e.. your higher
frequencies appear longer on the faster spinning record and are
therefore easier to pick up. Does this make sense and is it true?

Yes, although not 'definition', just more extended treble,

Bull****.

Definition woudl be a synonym for resolution which is mathematically the
same thing as dynamic range. Thus the question simplifies to whether or not
a faster spinning disk has more dymanic range. Magnetic cartridges are
velocity sensors. For a given angle of displacement of the stylus, the
faster-spinning disk is going to produce more output. Going the other way,
dynamic range has always been a well-known limitation of 16 2/3 rpm disks.

However, dynamic range is not solely determined by maximum output, as will
be covered below.

hence the
existence of 'audiophile' 12" 45s by RCA and others. OTOH, surface
noise is higher,

More bull****.

Surface noise on LPs is caused by dust particles. A faster-moving dust
particle is going to impinge more strongly on the stylus, creating more
output. Therefore, surface noise can be expected to be higher on a 45, all
other things being equal.

If the noise floor of a LP is dominated by surface noise, both maximum
output and the noise floor are controlled by speed for zero net gain in
dynamic range.

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:22:30 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:05:27 +0100, "The EggKing"
wrote:

Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined? As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

Does this make sense and is it true?

Yes, although not 'definition', just more extended treble,


Bull****.

It was ever your habit to ignore facts. The treble extension of vinyl
is entirely related to groove speed, which is a function of radius and
rotation speed. In fact, the outer grooves of a 33.3 LP have higher
groove speed than the outer grooves of a 7" 45, but a 12" 45 has the
capacity for a third of an octave higher treble. Of course, it's back
down below the outer grooves of a standard LP when it gets to the
inner grooves, but that's CAV discs for you!

hence the
existence of 'audiophile' 12" 45s by RCA and others. OTOH, surface
noise is higher,

More bull****.

Just simple truth, and we know that you can't handle that. The output
of a MM or MC cartridge is velocity-sensitive, so speed up the groove
and the surface noise gets louder. It ain't rocket science!
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:22:30 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:05:27 +0100, "The EggKing"
wrote:

Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does
the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined?
As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you
can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on
the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

Does this make sense and is it true?

Yes, although not 'definition', just more extended treble,


Bull****.

It was ever your habit to ignore facts. The treble extension of vinyl
is entirely related to groove speed, which is a function of radius and
rotation speed. In fact, the outer grooves of a 33.3 LP have higher
groove speed than the outer grooves of a 7" 45, but a 12" 45 has the
capacity for a third of an octave higher treble. Of course, it's back
down below the outer grooves of a standard LP when it gets to the
inner grooves, but that's CAV discs for you!



The sad thing Pinky is that, coming from *anybody* else, the above might
have been interesting and worthy of debate. Coming from you, it just gets
stamped 'More Bull****' and tossed in the bin.....

"Keith G" wrote in message

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...

It was ever your habit to ignore facts. The treble extension of vinyl
is entirely related to groove speed, which is a function of radius
and rotation speed. In fact, the outer grooves of a 33.3 LP have
higher groove speed than the outer grooves of a 7" 45, but a 12" 45
has the capacity for a third of an octave higher treble. Of course,
it's back down below the outer grooves of a standard LP when it gets
to the inner grooves, but that's CAV discs for you!

The sad thing Pinky is that, coming from *anybody* else, the above
might have been interesting and worthy of debate. Coming from you, it
just gets stamped 'More Bull****' and tossed in the bin.....

Just shows the slings and arrows of having a closed mind like yours, Keith.

When you ignore truth you lose Keith, not the person who posts the truth.

In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
The sad thing Pinky is that, coming from *anybody* else, the above
might have been interesting and worthy of debate. Coming from you, it
just gets stamped 'More Bull****' and tossed in the bin.....

Just shows the slings and arrows of having a closed mind like yours,
Keith.

When you ignore truth you lose Keith, not the person who posts the
truth.

Am I alone in finding it incredible that a supposed vinyl fan like Mr G
hasn't ever noticed the change in quality between start and end of *any*
LP and worked out that it's mainly down to the velocity?

Or perhaps his hearing really is that poor?

--
*Re-elect nobody

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Arny Krueger wrote:
The sad thing Pinky is that, coming from *anybody* else, the above
might have been interesting and worthy of debate. Coming from you, it
just gets stamped 'More Bull****' and tossed in the bin.....

Just shows the slings and arrows of having a closed mind like yours,
Keith.

When you ignore truth you lose Keith, not the person who posts the
truth.

Am I alone in finding it incredible that a supposed vinyl fan like Mr G
hasn't ever noticed the change in quality between start and end of *any*
LP and worked out that it's mainly down to the velocity?

Or perhaps his hearing really is that poor?

--
*Re-elect nobody

Dave Plowman London SW

To e-mail, change noise into sound.

If you are referring to me then yes I am quite aware of end of side
distortion & other downsides like not linear tracking etc. Vinyl is just a
part of my listening which also includes CD, DAT, RTR, Cassette, HD. I also
do quite a bit of recording for which I use a 24 bit DAT, Milennia media
pre's and Neumann mics. I also am sound man for 3 bands at present and yes
I have hearing audiograms from time to time to keep check on HF hearing loss
with age and never use ear buds...maybe that answers your question Vinyl is
just one part of the enjoyable music experience because like many I grew up
with it, similiarly valves but I do also have CD players, digital recorders
etc. How about you?

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:51:47 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:05:27 +0100, "The EggKing"
wrote:

Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined? As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

Does this make sense and is it true?

Yes, although not 'definition', just more extended treble,

Bull****.

It was ever your habit to ignore facts. The treble extension of vinyl
is entirely related to groove speed, which is a function of radius and
rotation speed. In fact, the outer grooves of a 33.3 LP have higher
groove speed than the outer grooves of a 7" 45, but a 12" 45 has the
capacity for a third of an octave higher treble. Of course, it's back
down below the outer grooves of a standard LP when it gets to the
inner grooves, but that's CAV discs for you!

The sad thing Pinky is that, coming from *anybody* else, the above might
have been interesting and worthy of debate. Coming from you, it just gets
stamped 'More Bull****' and tossed in the bin.....

Like I said, you can't handle the truth.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:51:47 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:
"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
m...
On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:05:27 +0100, "The EggKing"
wrote:

Stewart's last post made me think (extraordinary as that sounds); Does
the
fact that a Vinyl single spins quicker mean the sound is more defined?
As
you're covering more distance with the same amount of information you
can
get better definition, i.e.. your higher frequencies appear longer on
the
faster spinning record and are therefore easier to pick up.

Does this make sense and is it true?

Yes, although not 'definition', just more extended treble,

Bull****.

It was ever your habit to ignore facts. The treble extension of vinyl
is entirely related to groove speed, which is a function of radius and
rotation speed. In fact, the outer grooves of a 33.3 LP have higher
groove speed than the outer grooves of a 7" 45, but a 12" 45 has the
capacity for a third of an octave higher treble. Of course, it's back
down below the outer grooves of a standard LP when it gets to the
inner grooves, but that's CAV discs for you!

The sad thing Pinky is that, coming from *anybody* else, the above might
have been interesting and worthy of debate. Coming from you, it just gets
stamped 'More Bull****' and tossed in the bin.....

Like I said, you can't handle the truth.



Like I said: The sad thing Pinky is that, coming from *anybody* else, the
above might have been interesting and worthy of debate. Coming from you, it
just gets stamped 'More Bull****' and tossed in the bin.....