In article , Ken
wrote:


Thanks, guys, for your thoughts. On paper the Pioneer DV-575 looks like
unbeatable value. What I don't get is why are there so many CD-only
players still available?

Perhaps because the sales figures show that people are still buying far
more CD's than SACD's. So far as I've been able to tell so far, most people
have no real interest in changing. This may alter in the future, but I've
not seen signs of it as yet.


With DVD-A and SACD around, is not the CD format obsolete?

Only if people decide to switch. :-)

Of course, Philips/Sony would *like* people to change from CD to SACD. The
original patents on CD have now expired, and SACD is nominally not copyable
as easily as CD. This isn't much to do with sound quality, though. On that,
I guess time will tell.

My reasoning for going for a universal player was because I thought that
was the case. I guess the real questions I have a how long can one
expect CDs to remain available?

I have CD's that are decades old, and still pay OK. Can't see (as yet) that
I will cease playing them.

Why, if DVD-A and SACD are so superior (in stereo mode?), is there still
a market for CD-only players?

The seed of the answer to your last question may be contained in the
comment the sentence also includes... :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:25:11 GMT, "harrogate2"
wrote:


"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 07:50:59 GMT, "harrogate2"
wrote:

The catch one is SA-CD. The Philips 720 is the only other DVD
machine
on the market apart from the 575 that will play them.

How does SA-CD differ from SACD? There are many DVD machines that
will play the latter.

Kal

They are one and the same - it's just the 'correct' (Sony) way of
writing it.

From research I've done I suspect your comment is wrong - the only two
domestic DVD players that I can find that will decode SA-CD are these
two. Since SA-CD discs are hybrid and contain three different copies
of the music - including 'normal' CD - any machine will play them but
will not provide the full surround capability.

I would agree that there are a number of audio CD machines, notably
Sony and Denon, that will play and decode them.

There are more universal players out there, the Marantz 8400 is a good
machine. Plays anything you can chuck at it, and all in full surround
capabiltiy, as well as direct 2channel output.

tom.

"Ken" wrote


Thanks, guys, for your thoughts. On paper the Pioneer DV-575 looks
like unbeatable value.

IMO it is.

Bonus features - you don't even have to switch it on or close the tray!!
;-)

Thus: To start from 'Off' just press Play if there's a disk in it or Open
Tray if not. After removing a disk just press Off and the tray automatically
returns before it goes off. An unattended machine will automatically switch
itself after a while (15 mins) - I *think* (haven't taken note on mine...)

(Also, slap a little telly upside one and you've got an easy to navigate MP3
player with over 10 hours worth of music on a single CDRW!!)


What I don't get is why are there so many
CD-only players still available? With DVD-A and SACD around, is not
the CD format obsolete? My reasoning for going for a universal player
was because I thought that was the case. I guess the real questions I
have a how long can one expect CDs to remain available? Why, if
DVD-A and SACD are so superior (in stereo mode?), is there still a
market for CD-only players?


Yes with people who put the whole bundle into CDs and have now got to spend
the rest of their lives proving they are superior to *all* preceeding and
subsequent formats.....

(Sound familiar?? ;-)

"Ken" wrote in message
om
"Arny Krueger" wrote in message
...
"The EggKing" wrote in message


Denon make a whole range of Universal players from a couple of
hundred notes up to a couple of thousand. As you get further up the
range they separate the audio and video circuits completely
(including separate power supplies) to prevent interference??

No, they separate the functions into separate boxes to create
perceived value. I've tested the audio outputs of enough DVD players
to know that contamination of the audio from video is usually a
non-problem. Any time it would be a problem would be examples of
substandard engineering and construction.

Thanks, guys, for your thoughts. On paper the Pioneer DV-575 looks
like unbeatable value. What I don't get is why are there so many
CD-only players still available?

Poor inventory management on the part of retailers, distributors, and
manufactuers.

With DVD-A and SACD around, is not the CD format obsolete?

The CD-A format is obviously quite alive and well. In fact, DVD-A and SACD
are likely to predecese it.

My reasoning for going for a universal player
was because I thought that was the case.

Think again. If you want to talk about obsolete formats, think about vinyl.
People are still buying a trickle of vinyl players, right?

I guess the real questions I
have a how long can one expect CDs to remain available?

Indefinately.

Why, if DVD-A and SACD are so superior (in stereo mode?), is there still a
market for CD-only players?

The DVD-A and SACD formats don't provide a sound quality advantage. The only
reason why some SACDs and DVD-A releases sound different is that they were
remastered to not sound the same.

Well, I would not presume to know a lot about the UK market but there
are many universal players from Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Panasonic,
Toshiba, Samsung, etc. as well as from more expensive audiophile
brands such as Linn, McCormack, Moon, Theta, BelCanto, etc. Meridian
and Arcam are SACD holdouts for different reasons but both of the
lists are open-ended and would be longer if I sat and thought more.
I've had several in my system over the last year or two.

Kal

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 07:25:11 GMT, "harrogate2"
wrote:


"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 07:50:59 GMT, "harrogate2"
wrote:

The catch one is SA-CD. The Philips 720 is the only other DVD
machine
on the market apart from the 575 that will play them.

How does SA-CD differ from SACD? There are many DVD machines that
will play the latter.

Kal

They are one and the same - it's just the 'correct' (Sony) way of
writing it.

From research I've done I suspect your comment is wrong - the only two
domestic DVD players that I can find that will decode SA-CD are these
two. Since SA-CD discs are hybrid and contain three different copies
of the music - including 'normal' CD - any machine will play them but
will not provide the full surround capability.

I would agree that there are a number of audio CD machines, notably
Sony and Denon, that will play and decode them.

"Kalman Rubinson" wrote in message

Well, I would not presume to know a lot about the UK market but there
are many universal players from Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, Panasonic,
Toshiba, Samsung, etc. as well as from more expensive audiophile
brands such as Linn, McCormack, Moon, Theta, BelCanto, etc. Meridian
and Arcam are SACD holdouts for different reasons but both of the
lists are open-ended and would be longer if I sat and thought more.
I've had several in my system over the last year or two.

Some might find it ironic that examination of the innards of the more
expensive audiophile brands such as Linn, McCormack, Moon, Theta, BelCanto,
etc. may well provide a clear view of the guts of one of the universal
players from Pioneer, Toshiba, Samsung, etc.

Ken wrote:

Why, if
DVD-A and SACD are so superior (in stereo mode?), is there still a
market for CD-only players?

That's a big if.
DVD-A is theoretically superior if you are a dog
listening to a recording of a bat.
SACD is not superior in any way to CD.

--
Eiron.

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:57:41 -0500, "Arny Krueger"
wrote:

Some might find it ironic that examination of the innards of the more
expensive audiophile brands such as Linn, McCormack, Moon, Theta, BelCanto,
etc. may well provide a clear view of the guts of one of the universal
players from Pioneer, Toshiba, Samsung, etc.

All but the Linn.

Kal

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
Ken wrote:

Why, if
DVD-A and SACD are so superior (in stereo mode?), is there still a
market for CD-only players?

That's a big if.
DVD-A is theoretically superior if you are a dog
listening to a recording of a bat.
SACD is not superior in any way to CD.

--
Eiron.
And have you done lots of those double-blind tests that we hear so much of
on here, or like Arny Krueger, do you just KNOW.

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 18:24:06 GMT, "Michael Jones"
wrote:

"Eiron" wrote in message
...
Ken wrote:

Why, if
DVD-A and SACD are so superior (in stereo mode?), is there still a
market for CD-only players?

That's a big if.
DVD-A is theoretically superior if you are a dog
listening to a recording of a bat.
SACD is not superior in any way to CD.

--
Eiron.
And have you done lots of those double-blind tests that we hear so much of
on here, or like Arny Krueger, do you just KNOW.

Actually, Arny is the one who *has* done the DBTs, and put them on his
website. So, turning the question around, do *you* have any evidence
that DVD-A or SACD really do sound better than CD, or do you just
*know*?
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering