In article , John Phillips
wrote:

I note many people in the audio press and elsewhere creating incredible
untested technical arguments for "why" valve amplifiers etc.

I would agree. Alas, what seems to happen is that unreliable speculations
tend to be repeated in magazines and elsewhere are can become estabilshed
as 'facts' yet may have no real basis.

Unless you are in such a minority business and have to create or
maintain a market for your product, seeking engineering reasons to
justify "why" someone wants to try out a valve amplifier is both
unnecessary and inappropriate.

It is not necessary as justification for preference or curiosity, and
without the scientific method of making accurate and reproducible tests
(even for initially incredible hypotheses) it hinders good enquiry into
real reasons why any technology (solid state or vacuum tube) may be
technically advantageous.

Ultimately, however, it should be appreciated that the audio press and
this news group are not scientific journals. So personal positions,
curiosity and preferences should be treated with a little tolerance.

I would agree. However my concerns a

1) That the consumer press at times misleads people and impedes
understanding, and hence may hold back further progress in producing items
that the consumers concerned might prefer in their own terms.

2) That I wish to understand the 'why' and 'how' of such matters. Partly as
a matter of personal curiousity. Partly as I'd like to be able to help
those who wish to make 'better' items - including ones like valve amps for
those who prefer them.

The problem is that when we have magazines that do not make relevant
inquiries, and report inaccuracies as being correct, and when many users
find it difficult to relate their preferences to an actual critical
understanding of the engineering involved, progress become more difficult
than I would wish.

Personally, I have no objection at all to people preferring one sort of
sound system to another. However by understanding *why* in engineering
terms, we may be able to aid them in getting systems that they then feel
perform in a way which they find even 'better'.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

In article , Jim Lesurf wrote:
... my concerns a

1) That the consumer press at times misleads people and impedes
understanding, and hence may hold back further progress in producing items
that the consumers concerned might prefer in their own terms.

Yes, this is certain. However, this has been the case for the last 25
years at least and pregress is still made quietly behind the scenes.

I recall abandoning Wireless World and HFNRR as a student in the late
seventies for their increasingly popularist approaches. And as for
Scientific American - can you imagine today being given detailed plans
for your own Zinc/Sulphur-powered rocket or plans for an X-ray machine
capable of photographing the bones of your own hand?

That the popular literature these days is more for the light entertainment
of the non-scientifically-oriented than for the enlightenment of those
who appreciate the engineering side is not a matter of judgement of
either POV but a recognition of the economics of publication.

CP Snow had the core of the issue more or less right in "The Two Cultures
and the Scientific Revolution" in 1959 (AIUI from reputation and from
reading commentiaries on the web - I have not read it personally - see
the four-paragraph summary at http://www.datasync.com/~pwilz/snow1.htm).

Reproduction of audio and music is a place where the two cultures
inevitably clash.

2) That I wish to understand the 'why' and 'how' of such matters. Partly as
a matter of personal curiousity. Partly as I'd like to be able to help
those who wish to make 'better' items - including ones like valve amps for
those who prefer them.
...

So would I. However I do not know where to go for this, short of a
subscription to JAES, except places like this where I drop in from time
to time between bouts of business travel to see who's arguing with whom,
and for the occasional nugget of value (value to me, that is).

--
John Phillips

In article , John Phillips
wrote:
In article , Jim Lesurf wrote:
... my concerns a

1) That the consumer press at times misleads people and impedes
understanding, and hence may hold back further progress in producing
items that the consumers concerned might prefer in their own terms.

Yes, this is certain. However, this has been the case for the last 25
years at least and pregress is still made quietly behind the scenes.

Yes and no. :-) I agree that progress is often made. However my
impression is that this isn't always the case, and that the magazines are
often diverting attention or causing people to based their views and
judgements upon errors and misunderstandings.

This is less of a problem for 'professional' people who may already have
their own knowldge and access to more reliable sources. But for the
'consumers' or hobby/enthusiasts I fear that some of the nonsense that is
sometimes published may be a significant impedement at times. May cause
their to waste large amounts of their time and money which they might have
found to be better spent in other ways.

I recall abandoning Wireless World and HFNRR as a student in the late
seventies for their increasingly popularist approaches. And as for
Scientific American - can you imagine today being given detailed plans
for your own Zinc/Sulphur-powered rocket or plans for an X-ray machine
capable of photographing the bones of your own hand?

I'm not personally worried by the 'popular' motives. I can quite understand
magazines desiring to be widely and easily read. My concern is when what
they sacrifice is ensuring that what they say is reliable, or even has any
meaning at times! It is one thing to explain a topic clearly and simply. It
is something else to use writers whose knowldge is clearly flawed to write
nonsense that reads as 'cool' and which fosters ignorance or
misunderstandings.

[snip]


2) That I wish to understand the 'why' and 'how' of such matters.
Partly as a matter of personal curiousity. Partly as I'd like to be
able to help those who wish to make 'better' items - including ones
like valve amps for those who prefer them. ...

So would I. However I do not know where to go for this, short of a
subscription to JAES, except places like this where I drop in from time
to time between bouts of business travel to see who's arguing with whom,
and for the occasional nugget of value (value to me, that is).

My personal view is that the writings of a few authors - e.g. Keith Howard
and Barry Fox - for HFN are generally well worth reading. Even if you don't
always agree, they tend to be well thought out and based upon evidence
and/or a decent level of understanding of engineering, etc.

But that the output of many other magazine authors/editors needs treating
with caution at times - irrespective of some of them having established
themselves as 'names'. Can only comment on the UK consumer mags here,
though, as I've not read the USA ones for many years.

A particular dissapointement to me in this context is HFW magazine. I like
the fact that they develop and publish 'kits' for things like valve amps so
people can build things for themselves and enjoy the results. However I
dislike the way this is accompanied by repeated errors in other areas, and
only doing this in limited areas. Thus I would be much happer, for example,
if they also did SS kits, and not be so biassed in their approach.

However I'd agree that - short of joining a group like the AES - getting
more detailed and reliable info can be difficult if you are interested in
understanding these areas in a systematic and 'scientific' manner. The
difficulty is that there *is* good material around, but the
signal/(noise+distortion) ratio in magazines, and on the web, etc is
sometimes lower than might be desired. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html