JustMe wrote:



I will also continue to use my 8000CD which, to my ears, is the best CD
player I have heard at the price to date.

*Exluding the Philips CD Mech problem which wasn't their fault anyway and
hurt many manufacturers.


Interesting, as the 8000CD is meant to have no sound of its own.

If you like a bit of colour and character to your hi-fi, wouldn't you have
bought a Naim CD player?

I will also continue to use my 8000CD which, to my ears, is the best CD
player I have heard at the price to date.

*Exluding the Philips CD Mech problem which wasn't their fault anyway
and
hurt many manufacturers.


Interesting, as the 8000CD is meant to have no sound of its own.

"Meant to"? What's your feeling?

If you like a bit of colour and character to your hi-fi, wouldn't you have
bought a Naim CD player?

I've not heard any Naim CD players in a familiar context, although what I've
read of the CDX sounds like I might want to hear it for myself.

I used an Arcam BB500 with a DVD transport for a while - this was lovely
and, I guess, coloured. The Audiolab 8000CD just seems to lift a cloud off
of any disc I play - I prefer it.

JustMe wrote:

I will also continue to use my 8000CD which, to my ears, is the best CD
player I have heard at the price to date.


Interesting, as the 8000CD is meant to have no sound of its own.


"Meant to"? What's your feeling?


I haven't heard the 8000CD myself (though a hi-fi shop here had its successor,
the Tag CD20R at 40% off) but if it is anything like the traditional Audiolab
approach to sound, then it should be (using the usual terms given to such kit)
colourless and analytical.

Myself, I would rather get an Audiolab DAC than a CD player as I have multiple
digital sources.


I used an Arcam BB500 with a DVD transport for a while - this was lovely
and, I guess, coloured. The Audiolab 8000CD just seems to lift a cloud off
of any disc I play - I prefer it.


Interesting. I am not familiar with the Arcam Black Box in question (is it
multibit? bitstream? much older than the 8000CD?).

"JustMe" wrote in message
...
Following recent discussions about distortion and an amp's ability to
reproduce without colouration, I though I'd relay a recent experience.

In an earlier thread I had pointed out that my favourite amp would be
described by many on here as noisy and of inferior design on the basis
that
the sound may be coloured or because its performance seems to be sensitive
to it reaching an optimum temperature.

I swapped this amp (an Alchemist Kraken APD6a II) for an Audiolab 8000LX
which had been packed up for a short time. Many on here will be familiar
with this amp, if only by reputation.

The first thing I observed was how much more comfortable I was with the
look, feel, ergonomics and operation of the Audiolab. I can put things on
top of it, for starters (I don't block the air from circulating though the
vents, don't worry), the buttons are all cool to the touch - not *hot*
like
the Alchemist, both the input and record selector switches feel the same
and
it all operates with a great deal of assurance. It also has a lovely 1/4"
headphone jack on the front panel, which is very useful.

Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the
Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the
Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The
sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.

If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those listening
to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab doesn't
do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.

It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl
compared
with CD...



A friend had a 8000, was so bland compared to my Cyrus 2 (at the time)

Steve

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 03:41:48 GMT, "Steve Batt"
wrote:


"JustMe" wrote in message
...
Following recent discussions about distortion and an amp's ability to
reproduce without colouration, I though I'd relay a recent experience.

In an earlier thread I had pointed out that my favourite amp would be
described by many on here as noisy and of inferior design on the basis
that
the sound may be coloured or because its performance seems to be sensitive
to it reaching an optimum temperature.

I swapped this amp (an Alchemist Kraken APD6a II) for an Audiolab 8000LX
which had been packed up for a short time. Many on here will be familiar
with this amp, if only by reputation.

The first thing I observed was how much more comfortable I was with the
look, feel, ergonomics and operation of the Audiolab. I can put things on
top of it, for starters (I don't block the air from circulating though the
vents, don't worry), the buttons are all cool to the touch - not *hot*
like
the Alchemist, both the input and record selector switches feel the same
and
it all operates with a great deal of assurance. It also has a lovely 1/4"
headphone jack on the front panel, which is very useful.

Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the
Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the
Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The
sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.

If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those listening
to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab doesn't
do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.

It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl
compared
with CD...

A friend had a 8000, was so bland compared to my Cyrus 2 (at the time)

Excellent! Amps are not *supposed* to have character, that's the job
of the performer!............
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 03:41:48 GMT, "Steve Batt"
wrote:


"JustMe" wrote in message
...
Following recent discussions about distortion and an amp's ability to
reproduce without colouration, I though I'd relay a recent experience.

In an earlier thread I had pointed out that my favourite amp would be
described by many on here as noisy and of inferior design on the basis
that
the sound may be coloured or because its performance seems to be
sensitive
to it reaching an optimum temperature.

I swapped this amp (an Alchemist Kraken APD6a II) for an Audiolab
8000LX
which had been packed up for a short time. Many on here will be
familiar
with this amp, if only by reputation.

The first thing I observed was how much more comfortable I was with the
look, feel, ergonomics and operation of the Audiolab. I can put things
on
top of it, for starters (I don't block the air from circulating though
the
vents, don't worry), the buttons are all cool to the touch - not *hot*
like
the Alchemist, both the input and record selector switches feel the
same
and
it all operates with a great deal of assurance. It also has a lovely
1/4"
headphone jack on the front panel, which is very useful.

Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the
Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the
Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The
sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.

If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those
listening
to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab
doesn't
do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all
its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.

It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl
compared
with CD...

A friend had a 8000, was so bland compared to my Cyrus 2 (at the time)

Excellent! Amps are not *supposed* to have character, that's the job
of the performer!............
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Yeah, but they ain't sposed to take away from the sound stage or dynamics
etc.


Steve

In article ,
Steve Batt wrote:
Yeah, but they ain't sposed to take away from the sound stage or dynamics
etc.

To do either, you'd need a system which was compressing in some way and
with poor or non linear channel separation and or matching. All of which
should be easily checked with the correct gear.

--
*Happiness is seeing your mother-in-law on a milk carton

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 09:00:14 GMT, "Steve Batt"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 03:41:48 GMT, "Steve Batt"
wrote:

"JustMe" wrote in message
...

If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those listening to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab doesn't do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.

Only to *your* ears..............

It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl compared
with CD...

Yup, you do seem to love distortion! :-)

A friend had a 8000, was so bland compared to my Cyrus 2 (at the time)

Excellent! Amps are not *supposed* to have character, that's the job
of the performer!............

Yeah, but they ain't sposed to take away from the sound stage or dynamics
etc.

And sure enough, the good ones don't.

OTOH, plenty of amps will *add* what sounds like extra 'depth' and
'punch', but is really just IMD and clipping. Bizarrely, a reduced
dynamic range often sounds more 'dynamic'. All radio station sound
engineers are well aware of this trick.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 09:00:14 GMT, "Steve Batt"
wrote:


"Stewart Pinkerton" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 03:41:48 GMT, "Steve Batt"
wrote:

"JustMe" wrote in message
...

If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those
listening to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab
doesn't do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for
all its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any
sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.

Only to *your* ears..............

Indeed - this is, by any sensible measure, what a hifi should do: sound
better to *my* ears. Whether *you* like it or not has no bearing on *my*
choice.

That's why a market full of different-sounding products exists: to cater for
all our different tastes.

Besides, how do you know that my ears don't have an imperfection (whose ears
are perfect anyway?) which counters my favourite amp's own imperfections (or
vice versa) and brings it into "straight-line"? For all you know, the 8000S
might sound terribly coloured to me, regardless of how a machine measures
it.

It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl
compared
with CD...

Yup, you do seem to love distortion! :-)

Suits me!

A friend had a 8000, was so bland compared to my Cyrus 2 (at the time)

Excellent! Amps are not *supposed* to have character, that's the job
of the performer!............

Yeah, but they ain't sposed to take away from the sound stage or dynamics
etc.

And sure enough, the good ones don't.

OTOH, plenty of amps will *add* what sounds like extra 'depth' and
'punch', but is really just IMD and clipping. Bizarrely, a reduced
dynamic range often sounds more 'dynamic'. All radio station sound
engineers are well aware of this trick.

I have never found the dynamic range compression employed by many radio
stations to do anything more than suck the life, soul and energy out of the
music being transmitted - it sounds ****.

AFAIK this is done for accessibility rather than to give a perception of
increased dynamism (this does sound peverse) - to make the listen tolerable
in noisy environments such as cars, factory floors etc.

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering