Amp swap disappointment
 

Following recent discussions about distortion and an amp's ability to
reproduce without colouration, I though I'd relay a recent experience.

In an earlier thread I had pointed out that my favourite amp would be
described by many on here as noisy and of inferior design on the basis that
the sound may be coloured or because its performance seems to be sensitive
to it reaching an optimum temperature.

I swapped this amp (an Alchemist Kraken APD6a II) for an Audiolab 8000LX
which had been packed up for a short time. Many on here will be familiar
with this amp, if only by reputation.

The first thing I observed was how much more comfortable I was with the
look, feel, ergonomics and operation of the Audiolab. I can put things on
top of it, for starters (I don't block the air from circulating though the
vents, don't worry), the buttons are all cool to the touch - not *hot* like
the Alchemist, both the input and record selector switches feel the same and
it all operates with a great deal of assurance. It also has a lovely 1/4"
headphone jack on the front panel, which is very useful.

Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.

If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those listening to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab doesn't do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.

It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl compared
with CD...

Amp swap disappointment
 

"JustMe" wrote in message
...
Following recent discussions about distortion and an amp's ability to
reproduce without colouration, I though I'd relay a recent experience.

In an earlier thread I had pointed out that my favourite amp would be
described by many on here as noisy and of inferior design on the basis
that
the sound may be coloured or because its performance seems to be sensitive
to it reaching an optimum temperature.

I swapped this amp (an Alchemist Kraken APD6a II) for an Audiolab 8000LX
which had been packed up for a short time. Many on here will be familiar
with this amp, if only by reputation.

The first thing I observed was how much more comfortable I was with the
look, feel, ergonomics and operation of the Audiolab. I can put things on
top of it, for starters (I don't block the air from circulating though the
vents, don't worry), the buttons are all cool to the touch - not *hot*
like
the Alchemist, both the input and record selector switches feel the same
and
it all operates with a great deal of assurance. It also has a lovely 1/4"
headphone jack on the front panel, which is very useful.

Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the
Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the
Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The
sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.

If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those listening
to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab doesn't
do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.

It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl
compared
with CD...



Yes, my measuring device are the hairs on the back of my neck. If I'm not
inspired, moved or entertained by a piece of kit over time then back it
goes.
Ok its a bonus if it measures well but Idon't yet know of any spectrum
analyser, scope or any test gear that is graduated in emotion. It don't
mean a thing if it ain't..etc
Now the torch is lit - let the flames begin.....

Amp swap disappointment
 

JustMe wrote:

I swapped this amp (an Alchemist Kraken APD6a II) for an Audiolab 8000LX
which had been packed up for a short time. Many on here will be familiar
with this amp, if only by reputation.

basically the 8000LX is the same amp as the Audiolab 8000S without the
remote control and configurable modes (pre, pre-power, int, etc).


The first thing I observed was how much more comfortable I was with the
look, feel, ergonomics and operation of the Audiolab. I can put things on
top of it, for starters (I don't block the air from circulating though the
vents, don't worry), the buttons are all cool to the touch - not *hot* like
the Alchemist, both the input and record selector switches feel the same and
it all operates with a great deal of assurance. It also has a lovely 1/4"
headphone jack on the front panel, which is very useful.

Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.

I am not familiar with the Alchemist amp, but the Audiolab is a wire
with gain ... i.e. the sort of amp you want to get if you are after
"high-fidelity" with no audible distortion.



If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those listening to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it.

Of course. And the artist should make that happen by putting in an
entertaining, inspired performance.

The Audiolab doesn't do that for me, the Alchemist does.

OK, so you admit you prefer your amps to have a "boogie" factor, i.e.
alter the input signal in such a way that the output signal just isn't a
magnified version of the input signal. The Audiolab isn't the amp for
you then.

For all its supposed colour, for all its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.

No, that isn't what "hi-fi" should do ... the musicality should come
from the performance, not the equipment.

Amp swap disappointment
 

"JustMe" wrote


Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the
Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the
Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The
sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.


WTF's that got to do with anything? - All that matters is that it remains
'faithful' to the input signal...



If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those listening
to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab doesn't
do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.


Get thee to a valve ampery....

(While they're as cheap as chips - it can't last...)



It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl
compared
with CD...


No comment! :-)

Amp swap disappointment
 

"Tat Chan" wrote


No, that isn't what "hi-fi" should do ... the musicality should come from
the performance, not the equipment.


Er, if you want 'Mini Me' status, you'll have to get in line - there's at
least two ahead of you....

(Wot does that fekkin' stoopid remark mean anyway - put a bit of music
through a setup that bleaches all the flavout out of it and blame the
musicians/studio for a 'poor recording' as usual...??)

Ya hafta fekkin' larf!!!

(Do you *not*???)

:-))

Amp swap disappointment
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"JustMe" wrote


Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the
Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the
Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The
sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.


WTF's that got to do with anything? - All that matters is that it remains
'faithful' to the input signal...

Well, some would argue that this is the be all and end all of hifi. I'd
argue, as Mike said, that "it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that
swing". I spent the money on the gear to get the maximum pleasure from my
music. If a "straight wire with gain" wont give me that, then a curly wire
with gain will provide me with better value for money.


If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those
listening
to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab doesn't
do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all
its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.


Get thee to a valve ampery....

(While they're as cheap as chips - it can't last...)

I've had a couple of valve amps - an Armstrong - although that was before I
had any experience with any selection of hifi and so had no base of
reference to judge it - and, for a while, an AMC CVT3030a, which was great
fun to listen to. I changed it for the Alchemist Forseti pre/power after I
moved and was unhappy with the sound in my new home.

Right now I've got to start SELLING amps, rather than acquiring more as
bills are stacking up. The Audiolab will be the first to go on Ebay.


It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl
compared
with CD...


No comment! :-)

:o)

Amp swap disappointment
 

Keith G wrote:

(Wot does that fekkin' stoopid remark mean anyway - put a bit of music
through a setup that bleaches all the flavout out of it and blame the
musicians/studio for a 'poor recording' as usual...??)

So you DO think the SS amps remove something.

Do you also think valve amps add something or just amplify the real signal ?

Amp swap disappointment
 

Keith G wrote:

(Wot does that fekkin' stoopid remark mean anyway - put a bit of music
through a setup that bleaches all the flavout out of it and blame the
musicians/studio for a 'poor recording' as usual...??)

So you DO think the SS amps remove something.

Do you also think valve amps add something or just amplify the real signal
?

I couldn't answer for Keith, but as a consumer of hifi (rather than a
designer of the kit), and in the context of deciding which to spend cash on,
*I* don't particularly care.

To me "X" gives me greater pleasure than "Y". The value of "X" is about the
same as "Y" .'. the decision is an easy one for me.

Do *you* think that SS amps remove something?
Do *you* think that valve amps add something?

Could you quantify what you think each either removes or adds?

Amp swap disappointment
 

JustMe wrote:
Keith G wrote:


(Wot does that fekkin' stoopid remark mean anyway - put a bit of music
through a setup that bleaches all the flavout out of it and blame the
musicians/studio for a 'poor recording' as usual...??)

So you DO think the SS amps remove something.

Do you also think valve amps add something or just amplify the real signal

?

Do *you* think that SS amps remove something?

The good ones? no. Same goes for a good valve amp.

Do *you* think that valve amps add something?

Only the bad ones. Not that I deny the additions sound nice sometimes.

Could you quantify what you think each either removes or adds?

given the right equipment...

Amp swap disappointment
 

Keith G wrote:


(Wot does that fekkin' stoopid remark mean anyway - put a bit of music
through a setup that bleaches all the flavout out of it and blame the
musicians/studio for a 'poor recording' as usual...??)

So you DO think the SS amps remove something.

Do you also think valve amps add something or just amplify the real
signal

?

Do *you* think that SS amps remove something?

The good ones? no. Same goes for a good valve amp.

Do *you* think that valve amps add something?

Only the bad ones. Not that I deny the additions sound nice sometimes.

Could you quantify what you think each either removes or adds?

given the right equipment...

I'm going to make another post about this, as this raises an interesting (to
me) question...

Amp swap disappointment
 

Keith G wrote:

"Tat Chan" wrote



No, that isn't what "hi-fi" should do ... the musicality should come from
the performance, not the equipment.



Er, if you want 'Mini Me' status, you'll have to get in line - there's at
least two ahead of you....

So people can't have their own preference then? As it happens, I share
Stewart's views on high-fidelity in audio equipment.

What about the other valvie Mini-Mes then?



(Wot does that fekkin' stoopid remark mean anyway - put a bit of music
through a setup that bleaches all the flavout out of it and blame the
musicians/studio for a 'poor recording' as usual...??)

So you think a wire with gain removes stuff from the recording?

Musicality is something that can't be measured ... it has to "do it" for
you. From memory (I can't name any specific incidents), I have been to
gigs where the band was sloshed, the lead singer going off key a few
times, the guitarist fluffling a chord or three ... but, did the band
play! There was something in the ragged performance (maybe the music?)
that actually did it, and the punters agreed.

At the other end, you have gigs where everything is note for note
perfect, and the performance sounds exactly like a replica of the CD.
I tend to find those gigs boring. If I wanted a replication of the
performance on CD, I would have stayed at home.

Amp swap disappointment
 

JustMe wrote:


Well, some would argue that this is the be all and end all of hifi. I'd
argue, as Mike said, that "it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that
swing". I spent the money on the gear to get the maximum pleasure from my
music. If a "straight wire with gain" wont give me that, then a curly wire
with gain will provide me with better value for money.


Whatever takes your fancy.


Right now I've got to start SELLING amps, rather than acquiring more as
bills are stacking up. The Audiolab will be the first to go on Ebay.


You shouldn't have a problem flogging it. The LX has been sold for at
least £200 on Ebay.

Amp swap disappointment
 

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

"Tat Chan" wrote



No, that isn't what "hi-fi" should do ... the musicality should come from
the performance, not the equipment.



Er, if you want 'Mini Me' status, you'll have to get in line - there's at
least two ahead of you....

So people can't have their own preference then?


You're asking the wrong bloke - I'm not the one who attempts to *allow* or
*disallow* preference here.


As it happens, I share Stewart's views on high-fidelity in audio
equipment.


Whatever takes your fancy.



What about the other valvie Mini-Mes then?



(Wot does that fekkin' stoopid remark mean anyway - put a bit of music
through a setup that bleaches all the flavout out of it and blame the
musicians/studio for a 'poor recording' as usual...??)

So you think a wire with gain removes stuff from the recording?


There's no such thing - don't get carried away with *all* the ******** you
read in here....


At the other end, you have gigs where everything is note for note perfect,
and the performance sounds exactly like a replica of the CD.
I tend to find those gigs boring. If I wanted a replication of the
performance on CD, I would have stayed at home.


In vino veritas! ;-)

Amp swap disappointment
 

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

(Wot does that fekkin' stoopid remark mean anyway - put a bit of music
through a setup that bleaches all the flavout out of it and blame the
musicians/studio for a 'poor recording' as usual...??)

So you DO think the SS amps remove something.

Do you also think valve amps add something or just amplify the real signal
?

**I believe you have fallen into the same trap as others in this group. A
good amplifier neither adds, nor subtracts any audible information. It
matters not if the amplifying devices are solid state (SS) or hollow state
(HS).

IOW: There are good (ie: neutral) SS amps and bad (ie: distorting) SS amps.
Likewise, there are good and bad HS amps.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Amp swap disappointment
 

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:

"Tat Chan" wrote



No, that isn't what "hi-fi" should do ... the musicality should come from
the performance, not the equipment.



Er, if you want 'Mini Me' status, you'll have to get in line - there's at
least two ahead of you....

So people can't have their own preference then? As it happens, I share
Stewart's views on high-fidelity in audio equipment.

What about the other valvie Mini-Mes then?



(Wot does that fekkin' stoopid remark mean anyway - put a bit of music
through a setup that bleaches all the flavout out of it and blame the
musicians/studio for a 'poor recording' as usual...??)

So you think a wire with gain removes stuff from the recording?

Musicality is something that can't be measured ... it has to "do it" for
you. From memory (I can't name any specific incidents), I have been to
gigs where the band was sloshed, the lead singer going off key a few
times, the guitarist fluffling a chord or three ... but, did the band
play! There was something in the ragged performance (maybe the music?)
that actually did it, and the punters agreed.

At the other end, you have gigs where everything is note for note perfect,
and the performance sounds exactly like a replica of the CD.
I tend to find those gigs boring. If I wanted a replication of the
performance on CD, I would have stayed at home.

**Ah, you're talking about Madonna concerts.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Amp swap disappointment
 

I can tell you of a similar story - a good friend of mine had an Audiolab. As
you say - bland. We put in a Leak stereo 20 I'd modified one day, he played a
few of his favourite tracks, the music sprang to life and he bought the amp on
the spot. In anticipation of claims that he was a poor judge, what can I say
except that, errr, he's a high court judge.........

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Amp swap disappointment
 

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 23:48:14 +0000, Mike Gilmour wrote:

snip
Now the torch is lit - let the flames begin.....

Again, Mike? ;-)
I agree with you, its "music before measurements" for me, but I have a
definite deja vu feeling here...
:-)

--
Mick
(no M$ software on here... :-) )
Web: http://www.nascom.info
Web: http://projectedsound.tk

Amp swap disappointment
 

In article , JustMe
wrote:

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"JustMe" wrote


Just one problem. It's boring to listen to.

Looking at a piece of glass can be boring as well. Although I suppose this
depends upon whether you prefer to look at a bit of stained glass or
*through* a window at the scene beyond. :-)

FWIW I use audio equipment to listen to music, speech, films, etc, and
hence don't really want to get the impression that I can 'hear the amp' at
all. However your choice is your decision, not mine. :-)

Well, some would argue that this is the be all and end all of hifi. I'd
argue, as Mike said, that "it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that
swing". I spent the money on the gear to get the maximum pleasure from
my music. If a "straight wire with gain" wont give me that, then a curly
wire with gain will provide me with better value for money.

Fairy snuff.

I've had a couple of valve amps - an Armstrong

Which one?


Right now I've got to start SELLING amps, rather than acquiring more as
bills are stacking up. The Audiolab will be the first to go on Ebay.

I doubt you'll have trouble selling it. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Amp swap disappointment
 

In article ,
JustMe writes
Following recent discussions about distortion and an amp's ability to
reproduce without colouration, I though I'd relay a recent experience.

In an earlier thread I had pointed out that my favourite amp would be
described by many on here as noisy and of inferior design on the basis that
the sound may be coloured or because its performance seems to be sensitive
to it reaching an optimum temperature.

I swapped this amp (an Alchemist Kraken APD6a II) for an Audiolab 8000LX
which had been packed up for a short time. Many on here will be familiar
with this amp, if only by reputation.

The first thing I observed was how much more comfortable I was with the
look, feel, ergonomics and operation of the Audiolab. I can put things on
top of it, for starters (I don't block the air from circulating though the
vents, don't worry), the buttons are all cool to the touch - not *hot* like
the Alchemist, both the input and record selector switches feel the same and
it all operates with a great deal of assurance. It also has a lovely 1/4"
headphone jack on the front panel, which is very useful.

Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.

If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those listening to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab doesn't do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.

It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl compared
with CD...



Yes quite agree, it was designed by a superb engineer, Derek Scotland
with whom I had the privilege to work with at the early Audiolab factory
at Godmanchester.

If you don't like boring but very accurate amps, go get a graphic EQ or
look up the new audio processor on the broadcast warehouse site,

http://www.broadcastwarehouse.com/p/...s/DSP-X-Audio-
Processor?pid=99

its quite inexpensive, but boy-0-boy it sure packs a punch;))
--
Tony Sayer

Amp swap disappointment
 

In article , JustMe
writes

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"JustMe" wrote


Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the
Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the
Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The
sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.


WTF's that got to do with anything? - All that matters is that it remains
'faithful' to the input signal...

Well, some would argue that this is the be all and end all of hifi. I'd
argue, as Mike said, that "it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that
swing". I spent the money on the gear to get the maximum pleasure from my
music. If a "straight wire with gain" wont give me that, then a curly wire
with gain will provide me with better value for money.


If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those
listening
to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab doesn't
do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all
its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.


Get thee to a valve ampery....

(While they're as cheap as chips - it can't last...)

I've had a couple of valve amps - an Armstrong - although that was before I
had any experience with any selection of hifi and so had no base of
reference to judge it - and, for a while, an AMC CVT3030a, which was great
fun to listen to. I changed it for the Alchemist Forseti pre/power after I
moved and was unhappy with the sound in my new home.

Right now I've got to start SELLING amps, rather than acquiring more as
bills are stacking up. The Audiolab will be the first to go on Ebay.

Give the contents hereon first refusal then;))


It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl
compared
with CD...


No comment! :-)

:o)



--
Tony Sayer

Amp swap disappointment
 

In article , Andy Evans
writes
I can tell you of a similar story - a good friend of mine had an Audiolab. As
you say - bland. We put in a Leak stereo 20 I'd modified one day, he played a
few of his favourite tracks, the music sprang to life and he bought the amp on
the spot. In anticipation of claims that he was a poor judge, what can I say
except that, errr, he's a high court judge.........

That explains a lot;((

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

--
Tony Sayer

Amp swap disappointment
 

If you don't like boring but very accurate amps, go get a graphic EQ

What's that got to do with it? Surely the source is the issue, not what you put
it through?

=== Andy Evans ===
Visit our Website:- http://www.artsandmedia.com
Audio, music and health pages and interesting links.

Amp swap disappointment
 

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...
In article ,
JustMe writes
Following recent discussions about distortion and an amp's ability to
reproduce without colouration, I though I'd relay a recent experience.

In an earlier thread I had pointed out that my favourite amp would be
described by many on here as noisy and of inferior design on the basis
that
the sound may be coloured or because its performance seems to be
sensitive
to it reaching an optimum temperature.

I swapped this amp (an Alchemist Kraken APD6a II) for an Audiolab 8000LX
which had been packed up for a short time. Many on here will be familiar
with this amp, if only by reputation.

The first thing I observed was how much more comfortable I was with the
look, feel, ergonomics and operation of the Audiolab. I can put things on
top of it, for starters (I don't block the air from circulating though
the
vents, don't worry), the buttons are all cool to the touch - not *hot*
like
the Alchemist, both the input and record selector switches feel the same
and
it all operates with a great deal of assurance. It also has a lovely 1/4"
headphone jack on the front panel, which is very useful.

Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the
Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the
Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The
sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.

If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those listening
to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab doesn't
do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.

It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl
compared
with CD...



Yes quite agree, it was designed by a superb engineer, Derek Scotland
with whom I had the privilege to work with at the early Audiolab factory
at Godmanchester.

I've always had tons of respect for Audiolab products - there was never any
of the bull**** that some manufacturers foist on customers and their range
was without exception* incredibly well built (ie reliable, low failure rate,
consistant) and performed well.

Whilst I WILL be selling the 8000LX, I also previously owned an 8000S -
which I "upgraded" for an AMC CVT3030a valve amp for the same reasons as I
describe at the top of this post: the AMC was just so much more fun to
listen to and the music seemed more "out-of-the-box". Yes, the Audiolab
created a far more ordered and tidy presentation, but it didn't stir me like
the AMC, at the time.

I will also continue to use my 8000CD which, to my ears, is the best CD
player I have heard at the price to date.

*Exluding the Philips CD Mech problem which wasn't their fault anyway and
hurt many manufacturers.

If you don't like boring but very accurate amps, go get a graphic EQ or
look up the new audio processor on the broadcast warehouse site,

http://www.broadcastwarehouse.com/p/...s/DSP-X-Audio-
Processor?pid=99

its quite inexpensive, but boy-0-boy it sure packs a punch;))

Graphic equaliser=dirty words!

I'm happy to stick with an amp which gives an overall sound that I like and
I don't hold with the idea (not suggesting that you do) that different tonal
balances work better with different music, as some mags suggest. For me I
either like the way an amp sounds, or I don't. The music is a separate
issue, my hifi is merely a means to an end.

Amp swap disappointment
 

JustMe wrote:

I'm happy to stick with an amp which gives an overall sound that I like and
I don't hold with the idea (not suggesting that you do) that different tonal
balances work better with different music, as some mags suggest. For me I
either like the way an amp sounds, or I don't. The music is a separate
issue, my hifi is merely a means to an end.

Are you aware just how self-contradictory that paragraph is ?!

Amp swap disappointment
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote



FWIW I use audio equipment to listen to music, speech, films, etc, and
hence don't really want to get the impression that I can 'hear the amp' at
all. However your choice is your decision, not mine. :-)



Fine words Mr Lesurf, but I suspect I'm not the only one here who likes to
'hear his kit working' as well as listening to the music occasionally.....
;-)

Amp swap disappointment
 

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"Jim Lesurf" wrote



FWIW I use audio equipment to listen to music, speech, films, etc, and
hence don't really want to get the impression that I can 'hear the amp'
at
all. However your choice is your decision, not mine. :-)



Fine words Mr Lesurf, but I suspect I'm not the only one here who likes to
'hear his kit working' as well as listening to the music occasionally.....
;-)

Agreed. From what the "engineery" people in this group seem to say, I'd say
I fall into that camp too.

I'll wait for Jim to build me an "every amp in one" to make the ultimate
judgement ;o)

Amp swap disappointment
 

"Ian Molton" wrote in message
...
JustMe wrote:

I'm happy to stick with an amp which gives an overall sound that I like
and
I don't hold with the idea (not suggesting that you do) that different
tonal
balances work better with different music, as some mags suggest. For me
I
either like the way an amp sounds, or I don't. The music is a separate
issue, my hifi is merely a means to an end.

Are you aware just how self-contradictory that paragraph is ?!

I'm sure I'm full of hypocrisy and double-standards, but which aspect of
what I said are you specifically getting at?

From my point of view, the amp can be a means to an end, but - I guess in
your terms - a "coloured" means to an end - a curly wire. Is that what you
mean?

I will consistently prefer the tonal balance of that amplifier over others,
no matter that the music is "classical", "pop" or, whatever. I am still able
to hear massive differences in the productions and recordings and can still
say, "that sound like a Trevor Horn production" or "god, who recorded that
pile of crap".

Amp swap disappointment
 

In article , Keith G
wrote:

"Jim Lesurf" wrote



FWIW I use audio equipment to listen to music, speech, films, etc, and
hence don't really want to get the impression that I can 'hear the
amp' at all. However your choice is your decision, not mine. :-)



Fine words Mr Lesurf, but I suspect I'm not the only one here who likes
to 'hear his kit working' as well as listening to the music
occasionally..... ;-)

As I said... that's your decision. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Amp swap disappointment
 

In article , JustMe
wrote:
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Fine words Mr Lesurf, but I suspect I'm not the only one here who
likes to 'hear his kit working' as well as listening to the music
occasionally..... ;-)

Agreed. From what the "engineery" people in this group seem to say, I'd
say I fall into that camp too.

I'll wait for Jim to build me an "every amp in one" to make the ultimate
judgement ;o)

That might require a very large case just to fit the large multiway
selector on the top for all the variations the user can dial up. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

Amp swap disappointment
 

In article , Andy Evans
writes
If you don't like boring but very accurate amps, go get a graphic EQ

What's that got to do with it? Surely the source is the issue, not what you put
it through?


Well if you don't like accurate, un-coloured, boring, lifeless sound
then why not jazz it up a bit?, use whatever device U want, old valve or
poorly designed tranny amps or whatever, if it sounds good 2U..

Bye,, I'm off the group for a few days:)))))
--
Tony Sayer

Amp swap disappointment
 

JustMe wrote:



I will also continue to use my 8000CD which, to my ears, is the best CD
player I have heard at the price to date.

*Exluding the Philips CD Mech problem which wasn't their fault anyway and
hurt many manufacturers.


Interesting, as the 8000CD is meant to have no sound of its own.

If you like a bit of colour and character to your hi-fi, wouldn't you have
bought a Naim CD player?

Amp swap disappointment
 

I will also continue to use my 8000CD which, to my ears, is the best CD
player I have heard at the price to date.

*Exluding the Philips CD Mech problem which wasn't their fault anyway
and
hurt many manufacturers.


Interesting, as the 8000CD is meant to have no sound of its own.

"Meant to"? What's your feeling?

If you like a bit of colour and character to your hi-fi, wouldn't you have
bought a Naim CD player?

I've not heard any Naim CD players in a familiar context, although what I've
read of the CDX sounds like I might want to hear it for myself.

I used an Arcam BB500 with a DVD transport for a while - this was lovely
and, I guess, coloured. The Audiolab 8000CD just seems to lift a cloud off
of any disc I play - I prefer it.

Amp swap disappointment
 

JustMe wrote:

I will also continue to use my 8000CD which, to my ears, is the best CD
player I have heard at the price to date.


Interesting, as the 8000CD is meant to have no sound of its own.


"Meant to"? What's your feeling?


I haven't heard the 8000CD myself (though a hi-fi shop here had its successor,
the Tag CD20R at 40% off) but if it is anything like the traditional Audiolab
approach to sound, then it should be (using the usual terms given to such kit)
colourless and analytical.

Myself, I would rather get an Audiolab DAC than a CD player as I have multiple
digital sources.


I used an Arcam BB500 with a DVD transport for a while - this was lovely
and, I guess, coloured. The Audiolab 8000CD just seems to lift a cloud off
of any disc I play - I prefer it.


Interesting. I am not familiar with the Arcam Black Box in question (is it
multibit? bitstream? much older than the 8000CD?).

Amp swap disappointment
 

Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...


At the other end, you have gigs where everything is note for note perfect,
and the performance sounds exactly like a replica of the CD.
I tend to find those gigs boring. If I wanted a replication of the
performance on CD, I would have stayed at home.


**Ah, you're talking about Madonna concerts.



But you don't get all those dance moves and impossible yoga poses on the CD!

;)

Amp swap disappointment
 

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...
Trevor Wilson wrote:

"Tat Chan" wrote in message
...


At the other end, you have gigs where everything is note for note
perfect, and the performance sounds exactly like a replica of the CD.
I tend to find those gigs boring. If I wanted a replication of the
performance on CD, I would have stayed at home.


**Ah, you're talking about Madonna concerts.



But you don't get all those dance moves and impossible yoga poses on the
CD!

**That's why CD is dead. DVD is the medium of the near future.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au

Amp swap disappointment
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , JustMe
wrote:
"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Fine words Mr Lesurf, but I suspect I'm not the only one here who
likes to 'hear his kit working' as well as listening to the music
occasionally..... ;-)

Agreed. From what the "engineery" people in this group seem to say, I'd
say I fall into that camp too.

I'll wait for Jim to build me an "every amp in one" to make the ultimate
judgement ;o)

That might require a very large case just to fit the large multiway
selector on the top for all the variations the user can dial up. :-)

Slainte,

Jim

Can't you built a little logic circuit for the amp-switching - maybe a PS2
socket on the front and a make/model search function?
New amps could be added via USB2 flash upgrade, for a fee.

Amp swap disappointment
 

I will also continue to use my 8000CD which, to my ears, is the best CD
player I have heard at the price to date.


Interesting, as the 8000CD is meant to have no sound of its own.


"Meant to"? What's your feeling?


I haven't heard the 8000CD myself (though a hi-fi shop here had its
successor,
the Tag CD20R at 40% off) but if it is anything like the traditional
Audiolab
approach to sound, then it should be (using the usual terms given to such
kit)
colourless and analytical.

Myself, I would rather get an Audiolab DAC than a CD player as I have
multiple
digital sources.

That's why I kept the BB500, but the Audiolab sounds best without the
Arcam's influence.

I used an Arcam BB500 with a DVD transport for a while - this was lovely
and, I guess, coloured. The Audiolab 8000CD just seems to lift a cloud
off
of any disc I play - I prefer it.


Interesting. I am not familiar with the Arcam Black Box in question (is it
multibit? bitstream? much older than the 8000CD?).

I didn't know the answer, so looked it up. 1 Bit DAC, 20 Bit filter,
apparently. In my experience, single bit DACs have been more fun and less
"analytical", but that might be coincidence and the spec might be wrong!
It's a lovely DAC, though.

Amp swap disappointment
 

"Jim Lesurf" wrote in message
...
In article , JustMe
wrote:

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"JustMe" wrote


Just one problem. It's boring to listen to.

Looking at a piece of glass can be boring as well. Although I suppose this
depends upon whether you prefer to look at a bit of stained glass or
*through* a window at the scene beyond. :-)

FWIW I use audio equipment to listen to music, speech, films, etc, and
hence don't really want to get the impression that I can 'hear the amp' at
all. However your choice is your decision, not mine. :-)

Well, some would argue that this is the be all and end all of hifi. I'd
argue, as Mike said, that "it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that
swing". I spent the money on the gear to get the maximum pleasure from
my music. If a "straight wire with gain" wont give me that, then a curly
wire with gain will provide me with better value for money.

Fairy snuff.

I've had a couple of valve amps - an Armstrong

Which one?

Looking at the pics on your Armstrong site - it brought back all sorts of
memories and smells - the 222 looks right. I also had a receiver from the
same range - the one on the top left of the "200ads.jpeg" image also
matches.

The amp belonged to my granddad and the receiver to my dad. The receiver was
originally built into a large wooden cabinet, with a Garrard SP25ii
turntable fitted into a cut-out on the top. Both were used with, I think,
Goodmans Sandwich (?) speakers and came bundled with an 8 track recorder
with two cartridges - The Carpenters and Zager and Evans :o)

I used to have trouble getting hold of the proper two-pin speaker plugs for
the amps and often used to push bare wire into the sockets and blu-tac them
in place - I was young! Used them with all sorts of speakers - and speaker
combinations - and gave them incredible abuse (both in terms of dragging
them around and in how I hooked up the outputs to various combinations of
totally inappropriate speakers in ways that would quickly damage most amps
that I own today - or trigger some sort of protection).

Never once did they fail.

In the end I sold them. Thinking about that now, I wish I hadn't.

Amp swap disappointment
 

"JustMe" wrote in message
...
Following recent discussions about distortion and an amp's ability to
reproduce without colouration, I though I'd relay a recent experience.

In an earlier thread I had pointed out that my favourite amp would be
described by many on here as noisy and of inferior design on the basis
that
the sound may be coloured or because its performance seems to be sensitive
to it reaching an optimum temperature.

I swapped this amp (an Alchemist Kraken APD6a II) for an Audiolab 8000LX
which had been packed up for a short time. Many on here will be familiar
with this amp, if only by reputation.

The first thing I observed was how much more comfortable I was with the
look, feel, ergonomics and operation of the Audiolab. I can put things on
top of it, for starters (I don't block the air from circulating though the
vents, don't worry), the buttons are all cool to the touch - not *hot*
like
the Alchemist, both the input and record selector switches feel the same
and
it all operates with a great deal of assurance. It also has a lovely 1/4"
headphone jack on the front panel, which is very useful.

Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the
Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the
Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The
sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.

If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those listening
to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab doesn't
do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.

It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl
compared
with CD...



A friend had a 8000, was so bland compared to my Cyrus 2 (at the time)

Steve

Amp swap disappointment
 

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 03:41:48 GMT, "Steve Batt"
wrote:


"JustMe" wrote in message
...
Following recent discussions about distortion and an amp's ability to
reproduce without colouration, I though I'd relay a recent experience.

In an earlier thread I had pointed out that my favourite amp would be
described by many on here as noisy and of inferior design on the basis
that
the sound may be coloured or because its performance seems to be sensitive
to it reaching an optimum temperature.

I swapped this amp (an Alchemist Kraken APD6a II) for an Audiolab 8000LX
which had been packed up for a short time. Many on here will be familiar
with this amp, if only by reputation.

The first thing I observed was how much more comfortable I was with the
look, feel, ergonomics and operation of the Audiolab. I can put things on
top of it, for starters (I don't block the air from circulating though the
vents, don't worry), the buttons are all cool to the touch - not *hot*
like
the Alchemist, both the input and record selector switches feel the same
and
it all operates with a great deal of assurance. It also has a lovely 1/4"
headphone jack on the front panel, which is very useful.

Just one problem. It's boring to listen to. I've been running the
Alchemist
in exactly the same setup for a few months and in switching to the
Audiolab,
and having listened for about a weeks now, I'm totally uninspired. The
sound
is very clean and aesthetically it's all very balanced and even handed,
which is fine on paper, but it doesn't entertain me.

If I were a recording artist, first and foremost I'd want those listening
to
my music to be entertained, inspired & moved by it. The Audiolab doesn't
do
that for me, the Alchemist does. For all its supposed colour, for all its
foibles, operational quirks - whatever you like - it is by any sensible
measure of what a hifi should be and do, better.

It's a similar difference that I experience when listening to vinyl
compared
with CD...

A friend had a 8000, was so bland compared to my Cyrus 2 (at the time)

Excellent! Amps are not *supposed* to have character, that's the job
of the performer!............
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering