Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from Nottingham,
no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me
'How did you get into valves, then?

Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark. The
minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve
amp, I never looked back!

That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode
amp next week and the other sometime in the near future!

Ya hafta larf!!

:-)

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from
Nottingham,
no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me
'How did you get into valves, then?

Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark.
The
minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve
amp, I never looked back!

That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode
amp next week and the other sometime in the near future!

Ya hafta larf!!

:-)

Where are you based, Keith?

"JustMe" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from
Nottingham,
no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked
me
'How did you get into valves, then?

Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark.
The
minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a
valve
amp, I never looked back!

That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode
amp next week and the other sometime in the near future!

Ya hafta larf!!

:-)

Where are you based, Keith?



Eaton Ford, St Neots, Cambs

(Chav Central, UK :-)

See:

http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/modules.p...=print&sid=369

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

"JustMe" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
...

Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from
Nottingham,
no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked
me
'How did you get into valves, then?

Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark.
The
minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a
valve
amp, I never looked back!

That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a
triode
amp next week and the other sometime in the near future!

Ya hafta larf!!

:-)

Where are you based, Keith?



Eaton Ford, St Neots, Cambs

(Chav Central, UK :-)

See:

http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/modules.p...=print&sid=369





Hey Keith,

I used to go fishing on the river ouse just near there.
Am in Australia now, brought my Copland and Castles with me (couldn't bear
to part withy them).

Steve

"Steve Batt" wrote


Where are you based, Keith?



Eaton Ford, St Neots, Cambs

(Chav Central, UK :-)

See:

http://www.chavtowns.co.uk/modules.p...=print&sid=369





Hey Keith,

I used to go fishing on the river ouse just near there.


It's 'Dragon Boat' racing these days.....


Am in Australia now, brought my Copland and Castles with me (couldn't bear
to part withy them).


:-)

Keith G wrote:
Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from Nottingham,
no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me
'How did you get into valves, then?

Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark. The
minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve
amp, I never looked back!

That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode
amp next week and the other sometime in the near future!

Ya hafta larf!!

:-)



Aye, nab 'em while they're young!

I've only got into the valve thing quite recently having shown a passing
interest for many years. Curiosity sated as a result of having the money
and the current choice - ebay in particular. And I'd have to add Keith G
and his advice and photo journals (and others on this ng).

I now have SS and valve amps and I prefer the way valve amps deal with
the music. There's the sound (the physical amplification) which quite
surprised me - not 'lush', limited (in loudness and dynacism) or
distorted as I'd been led to believe. The main asset is the sense of
depth they manage to relay, while losing very little in terms of detail.
I don't think this phenomenon measures - you'd just have to listen.

Then there's the 'hobbyist' thing - the look, feel, and almost
manageable understanding of how the things work and relative ease of
maintenance. And there's a tangible sense of 'built to last' - i'd bet
that by proportional sales valve amps occupy far less landfill than SS
cousins (even given valve replacements).

I quite often get friends ask me about hifi and I never recommend valve
amps at the outset. I try to figure out what they want and what they
have to spend, and most of the time it just involves a trip to Richer
sounds - amp, tuner, cd chosen by look/price, and usually a bit extra
for speakers depending on their room (two fundamentals IMO). My point
here is that valves are not for all - Keith made that clear to me (not
sure if he meant to!) - there are costs of ownership related to
heat/exposed valves (kids and animals) and valve replacement every few
years.

And it has to be said that a lot of people don't care about the sound
quality of an amplifier at this level - they'd detect 'difference'
without judging either better or worse - except perhaps on extended
listening when (of course!) they'd choose valves.

Rob

In article ,
Rob wrote:
And there's a tangible sense of 'built to last' - i'd bet
that by proportional sales valve amps occupy far less landfill than SS
cousins (even given valve replacements).

You jest? I had Quad II valve equipment for quite some time - say near 10
years. Needed one mains transformer, one output transformer, several paper
capacitors and countless valves.

The 303 that replaced it is now living out its life driving my subs. And
is well over 30 years old. With no repairs ever needed. Even the light
still works. ;-)

I daresay its performance could be improved with a smattering of new
electrolytics, but until I hear some burbling or whatever, they'll do.

--
*I love cats...they taste just like chicken.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Dave Plowman (News)
writes
In article ,
Rob wrote:
And there's a tangible sense of 'built to last' - i'd bet
that by proportional sales valve amps occupy far less landfill than SS
cousins (even given valve replacements).

You jest? I had Quad II valve equipment for quite some time - say near 10
years. Needed one mains transformer, one output transformer, several paper
capacitors and countless valves.

The 303 that replaced it is now living out its life driving my subs. And
is well over 30 years old. With no repairs ever needed. Even the light
still works. ;-)

I daresay its performance could be improved with a smattering of new
electrolytics, but until I hear some burbling or whatever, they'll do.


I'd upgrade it Dave I've done the one that the wife uses in her study
driving her new Quads and she's well pleased

Only cost about 20 quid, a bloke in somersham up our way makes a simple
kit of parts for them. Apart from that its a good idea to catch them
before the spew electrolyte all over the boards!..

The LF performance is likely to be down from what it should be too....
--
Tony Sayer

Rob wrote:

Keith G wrote:
Two visitors this afternoon who dragged themselves to mine (from Nottingham,
no less) to hear my Triode amp wre obviously deeply impressed and asked me
'How did you get into valves, then?

Answer: Easy - I tried dozens of ss amps and none of them hit the mark. The
minute I swapped a Parasound 5 channel arc welder (HC1205A ??) for a valve
amp, I never looked back!

That's two kids in their 20's into valves *already* - one to get a triode
amp next week and the other sometime in the near future!

Ya hafta larf!!

:-)



Aye, nab 'em while they're young!

I've only got into the valve thing quite recently having shown a passing
interest for many years. Curiosity sated as a result of having the money
and the current choice - ebay in particular. And I'd have to add Keith G
and his advice and photo journals (and others on this ng).

I now have SS and valve amps and I prefer the way valve amps deal with
the music. There's the sound (the physical amplification) which quite
surprised me - not 'lush', limited (in loudness and dynacism) or
distorted as I'd been led to believe. The main asset is the sense of
depth they manage to relay, while losing very little in terms of detail.
I don't think this phenomenon measures - you'd just have to listen.

Then there's the 'hobbyist' thing - the look, feel, and almost
manageable understanding of how the things work and relative ease of
maintenance. And there's a tangible sense of 'built to last' - i'd bet
that by proportional sales valve amps occupy far less landfill than SS
cousins (even given valve replacements).

I quite often get friends ask me about hifi and I never recommend valve
amps at the outset. I try to figure out what they want and what they
have to spend, and most of the time it just involves a trip to Richer
sounds - amp, tuner, cd chosen by look/price, and usually a bit extra
for speakers depending on their room (two fundamentals IMO). My point
here is that valves are not for all - Keith made that clear to me (not
sure if he meant to!) - there are costs of ownership related to
heat/exposed valves (kids and animals) and valve replacement every few
years.

And it has to be said that a lot of people don't care about the sound
quality of an amplifier at this level - they'd detect 'difference'
without judging either better or worse - except perhaps on extended
listening when (of course!) they'd choose valves.

Rob

You either like em or dismiss them.

But this issue of reliablity crops up time and time again.
But most SS amps will need a fix sooner or later like all boxes full of
electronics costing a grand or two.

My 1982 Phillips tele has needed 3 fixes worth an average of $100 each since I
bought it
in 1982. It now needs fix no 4, and it lies dormant and useless since it went phut
again before the last
olympics. I am better off without the brain interference of TV.

I fix amps for a living, and the shed is often cluttered with SS amps whose output
stages have fused.
Then there is the constant stream of noise faults, intermittent drop outs,
and switch failures. Nothing lasts forever.
There are constant phone calls for service for 3 in 1 stereo systems where the
complexity is fragile and the CD player mechanisms give up or malfunction.
I try to avoid fixing them, since owners don't like paying much.

An ARC SP8 preamp came in the other day. In 1/2 an hour I was able to check
the whole circuit out easily. One half of a 12AX7 had stopped working.
I just plugged another in, and it should last 20 years.

Many of the ancient amps made by Quad, leak etc have fragile output
transformers. These are indeed expensive to rewind to the original spec, so its
better
tp replace the OPTs with something made recently, because the quality of the old
OPTs
wasn't very good.

There was no active protection fitted to old amps so they
would sometimes sustain a fused OPT winding if a tube decided to
run red hot and saturated with say 300 mA instead of the usual
bias current of 50 mA. This wasn't enough to cause a fuse to blow.
This was often caused by loose grid connections or stuffed coupling caps.

Old gear needs all the caps and resistors changed, and all the plug
and socket joints tightened up.

There are many Quad II amps still being used after 50 years.

I have never seen a faulty switch in a Quad 22 control unit, but
I have seen plenty of rotten carbon comp resistors and lousy
Hunts caps.

I wonder how many average quality SS amps made now will still be in service in
2054?

Will anyone be carrying the workshop manuals then?
Will anyone be able to fix anything or have the spare parts?
Will anyone need to fix it?

Maybe there won't be any need for audio visual equipments except a brain implant
device to convey it all by RF digital signals to suit our brains own digital
signals.
( I assume there will be people with brains, but since I see a few about
now without a brain, there will always be samples where there is room for
what would be a manufactured improvement).

Perhaps far more breathtaking experiences can be sold to folks to pipe directly
to the brain cells.

Maybe we won't need a PC either.

Patrick Turner

"Patrick Turner" wrote in message
...


You either like em or dismiss them.

But this issue of reliablity crops up time and time again.
But most SS amps will need a fix sooner or later like all boxes full of
electronics costing a grand or two.

My 1982 Phillips tele has needed 3 fixes worth an average of $100 each
since I
bought it
in 1982. It now needs fix no 4, and it lies dormant and useless since it
went phut
again before the last
olympics. I am better off without the brain interference of TV.

**My 1968 Marantz Model Eighteen Receiver has been operating every day, in
my workshop, since 1978 (dunno about it's history prior to that), with only
one fix. I allowed it to operate into a damaged speaker for about 30 mins,
before it carked it. Except for the CRO (a tube, I might add) it has not
missed a beat, since the last service (ca; 1985).



I fix amps for a living, and the shed is often cluttered with SS amps
whose output
stages have fused.
Then there is the constant stream of noise faults, intermittent drop outs,
and switch failures. Nothing lasts forever.
There are constant phone calls for service for 3 in 1 stereo systems where
the
complexity is fragile and the CD player mechanisms give up or malfunction.
I try to avoid fixing them, since owners don't like paying much.

An ARC SP8 preamp came in the other day. In 1/2 an hour I was able to
check
the whole circuit out easily. One half of a 12AX7 had stopped working.
I just plugged another in, and it should last 20 years.

**Or not. Most tubes go microphonic after awhile.


Many of the ancient amps made by Quad, leak etc have fragile output
transformers. These are indeed expensive to rewind to the original spec,
so its
better
tp replace the OPTs with something made recently, because the quality of
the old
OPTs
wasn't very good.

There was no active protection fitted to old amps so they
would sometimes sustain a fused OPT winding if a tube decided to
run red hot and saturated with say 300 mA instead of the usual
bias current of 50 mA. This wasn't enough to cause a fuse to blow.
This was often caused by loose grid connections or stuffed coupling caps.

Old gear needs all the caps and resistors changed, and all the plug
and socket joints tightened up.

There are many Quad II amps still being used after 50 years.

I have never seen a faulty switch in a Quad 22 control unit, but
I have seen plenty of rotten carbon comp resistors and lousy
Hunts caps.

**The power switch on the 22 is a notorious problem. I've serviced at least
three, in my memory. The resistors are a real problem, of course, in any
product of that vintage.


I wonder how many average quality SS amps made now will still be in
service in
2054?

**My Marantz Model Eighteen will be (except for the CRO). Same deal with my
regular audio equipment. One of my amps dates back to 1978 and is not only
still working fine, but it still sounds better than most contemporary
products.


Will anyone be carrying the workshop manuals then?

**They'll be on the web (along with everything else). Almost nothing that is
published today, will be lost.

Will anyone be able to fix anything or have the spare parts?

**Possibly not. Tubes will be real hard to get in 2054. Real, REAL hard.

Will anyone need to fix it?

**Probably not. Assuming the planet does not get destroyed within the next
50 years, future developments will probably ensure that amplifiers will be
completely disposable items.


Maybe there won't be any need for audio visual equipments except a brain
implant
device to convey it all by RF digital signals to suit our brains own
digital
signals.

**A very real probability. I recall sci-fi novel which suggested such a
thing.


( I assume there will be people with brains, but since I see a few about
now without a brain, there will always be samples where there is room for
what would be a manufactured improvement).

Perhaps far more breathtaking experiences can be sold to folks to pipe
directly
to the brain cells.

Maybe we won't need a PC either.

**That is a given. PCs are an interim step.


--
Trevor Wilson
www.rageaudio.com.au