Message-ID: from Kurt Hamster
contained the following:


In one respect vinyl has one aspect that far and away exceeds CD, both
technically and subjectively.

I wonder if the digiphiles can figure out what it is?

Well my vinyl freaky friend (hi Roy) has just bought himself a wet cleaner.
It's the whole ritual thing isn't it? Than lavishing of care and pride on
the recordings, keeping them in pristine condition, handling them
(literally) with kid gloves. Much more satisfying than giving the cd a
quick wipe on your trouser leg and slapping it into the player.

--
Geoff Berrow
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs http://www.ckdog.co.uk/rfdmaker/

In article ,
Kurt Hamster wrote:
They've been done to death on here, but the vinyl nerds don't listen.
They have a hearing problem.

No mate, you have a problem with what we like to hear.

For the umpteenth time I don't. But do have a problem with all the crap
talked about how superior it is. Because it isn't by any measure.

--
*'ome is where you 'ang your @ *

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:32:06 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:58:43 +0100, Paul Harper used
to say...

There does not HAVE to be an emotional aspect at all - to illustrate
that point, there is no emotional content to this reply whatsoever, in
exactly the same way that there was no emotional content - real or
implied - in Geoff's original post.

Which could also be said of digital - cold with no emotion

Ah I see - scratches = emotion. All is clear now. Depends who's doing
the scratching and where, I suppose... :-)

Paul.

--
A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality

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Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."

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In article ,
Kurt Hamster wrote:
For the umpteenth time I don't. But do have a problem with all the crap
talked about how superior it is. Because it isn't by any measure.

If one prefers the sound of vinyl to CD then in that instance it is
superior.

This is the problem with people like you. You are unable to see (hear)
things through other people's eyes (ears) or even appreciate that they
have different preferences.

All the hallmarks of bigotry I'm afraid.

Not at all. The makers of vinyl records had ways of measuring their
performance. Just about everything we buy will be measured against some
standards. With a car, it might be the fuel consumption, speed
acceleration, handling, or comfort.

And in not one solitary parameter does vinyl beat CD - or even come close.

So vinyl bigots like you have to invent things that either don't exist or
you mistake for well known flaws....

Take an electric guitar, or an electric piano. Neither sounds much like
the originals. And, as such, have become instruments in their own right.
And you might prefer them to the acoustic versions. But trying to explain
why you prefer them with the same sort of explanations as those used by
vinyl freaks would be ludicrous. As is the CD vinyl comparison.

--
*Why is it called tourist season if we can't shoot at them?

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 13:18:18 +0100, Ronnie McKinley
wrote:

In uk.net.news.config Ronnie McKinley
wrote:

There you go again - taking a simple statement and making an absolute
of it.


and btw Paul ... "there you go **AGAIN**?" .... would you care to
expand on your above statement, maybe with some examples of the
**AGAIN** please? Like, just out of interest, you know.

"Emotion". As well as a funny accent, you have short term memory
problems too?!

Paul.

--
A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality

JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."

All Hotmail, MSN, AOL, Yahoo and Excite emails are automatically killfiltered.

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 12:37:15 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 07:32:35 +0100, Paul Harper used
to say...

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 00:32:06 +0100, Kurt Hamster
wrote:

On Fri, 04 Jul 2003 21:58:43 +0100, Paul Harper used
to say...

There does not HAVE to be an emotional aspect at all - to illustrate
that point, there is no emotional content to this reply whatsoever, in
exactly the same way that there was no emotional content - real or
implied - in Geoff's original post.

Which could also be said of digital - cold with no emotion

Ah I see - scratches = emotion. All is clear now. Depends who's doing
the scratching and where, I suppose... :-)

Paul.

In a different post you mentioned about shades of grey, but here you are
making the absolute statement that scratches give the emotion. Tut tut.

It's shooting fish in a barrel, getting you going, isn't it. Ho hum...

Paul.
--
A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality

JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."

All Hotmail, MSN, AOL, Yahoo and Excite emails are automatically killfiltered.

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:55:00 +0100, Ronnie McKinley
wrote:

"Other people?" - 'mass' as in 'people' - so it's private individual
education by email you provide, and not just simply "educating" the
general "masses" on Usenet?

Wrong. You're not even trying, are you? Bring back Krusty, at least
he raises a smile from time to time...

Paul.

--
A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality

JMS: "SFX is a fairly useless publication on just about every imaginable front.
Never have so many jumped-up fanboys done so little, with so much, for so long."

All Hotmail, MSN, AOL, Yahoo and Excite emails are automatically killfiltered.

"John" wrote

I would like to add my support for ukrav. I'll certainly vote for it's
creation. I remain perplexed by the hostility of certain ukra subscribers
to
the simple assertion that music sounds better on vinyl to many people, and
the tedious and patronising attempts made to 'prove' that vinyl users are
somehow mistaken or delusional. The creation of the new group should allow
constructive discussion of what remains a very creative and
enthusiastically
supported section of the audio industry by professionals and hobbyists
alike.



I think the time has come for me to say that I whole-heartedly agree with
the sentiment expressed in this post and to say that I think the recent
threads crossposted here (and the continual 'debates' in ukra) clearly
demonstrate that, at least to a noisy and relentless minority in ukra, the
whole subject of 'vinyl' is apparently as alien to 'mainstream audio' as is
the subject of 'car audio' and a similar, separate 'specialist' ng. would
therefore be of clear benefit to all.

On the clear understanding that the wording of the proposed Charter admits,
allows and encourages the discussion of *all* matters related to the subject
of 'vinyl' and not merely those of a technical nature, I will most certainly
vote for the creation of this new group (should it become necessary) and
look forward to its creation as soon as 'due process' will allow.

Keith G

Julian Fowler wrote in
:

snip


Maybe you could explain to the unlightened how a recording can be
"lifelike" without being accurate.


I am one of the 'lucky' ones that likes CD/SS and vinyl/valves ;-).

To my ears, vinyl gives a 'fuller' and 'deeper' soundstage. Each instrument
is 'rounder', more '3d' sounding. With this sound it is easy to talk about
'warmth', 'life' and 'more musical'. I find it 'better' than CD in the same
way that a country cottage with its low beams and sloping floors can be
more desirable than a perfectly built new house, even though the cottage is
not built to the same standard.

My CD system cost me £1500 and is currently the top mid range system in
many of the comix. I very much like its accuracy, timing and soundstage. To
my ears the sound is 'flatter' with less 'life' in it than vinyl.

How about some more comparisons?

Supermarket pie V home made steak pie
Perfect packet Smash V Lumpy mash from pie and mash shop
Modern quiet automatic car V noisy old sports car
Modern gas central heating V open, coal fireplace

In most of these the modern equivelent lacks soul although technicaly
superior!

So as someone who likes both, gets a lot of pleasure from both, I can say
that vinyl is more lifelike than CD although not technicaly the same.

MrBitsy.

In article . 39,
MrBitsy wrote:
Supermarket pie V home made steak pie
Perfect packet Smash V Lumpy mash from pie and mash shop
Modern quiet automatic car V noisy old sports car
Modern gas central heating V open, coal fireplace

In most of these the modern equivelent lacks soul although technicaly
superior!

That you think a supermarket pie or dried potatoe mix technically superior
to the real thing says a lot about your lack of technical understanding.

So as someone who likes both, gets a lot of pleasure from both, I can
say that vinyl is more lifelike than CD although not technicaly the
same.

If it were more lifelike than CD then it would be able to imitate live
sounds better. This it certainly can't, in any test you care to try where
direct comparison, rather than your poor hearing memory, is involved.

--
*Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties are largely ceremonial

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn