In article ,
Chris Isbell wrote:
It was on BBC 1 and a large proportion of the potential audience would
not have digital television. Teletext is also likely to be a bit too
technical and/or not of interest to the a reasonable proportion of the
audience. It also look more than a little naff and dated.

Eh? Anyone who needed subtitles would be well used to getting them from
Teletext. It's been available for many, many, years.

--
*Sorry, I don't date outside my species.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , Chris Isbell
wrote:
On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 10:07:29 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

Wonder what idiot thought of imposing them.[2] Even worse, what idiot
assumed that they had to be imposed on all viewers when they could
easily have been done via teletext 888 or the digital equivalent, so
making them optional. If they had been optional I'd have said they were
a good idea for those who needed/wanted them. But *not* a good idea to
impose them on everyone who wanted to watch/listen.

It was on BBC 1 and a large proportion of the potential audience would
not have digital television.

But Teletext 888 *is* available for PAL/UHF, and is routinely used for
subtitles.

Teletext is also likely to be a bit too technical and/or not of interest
to the a reasonable proportion of the audience.

But is available if they wish to use it. Thus giving people a choice. Up to
them to they decide it is "of interest" or not. No-one would be forcing
them to watch 888.

It also look more than a little naff and dated.

Well, if the *BBC* think that, then it seems odd that they continue to
provide it in the present form - although even so, if they provide it,
it seems logical to use it. Otherwise the bean-counters would have
abandoned it, I'd have thought. OTOH maybe the BBC *don't* share your
opinion about this to the point where they disregard its use.

If people find teletext 'naff and dated' then they can presumably buy a
DTTV box. Also, if you check, you may find that the appearance of text on
teletext does vary a bit from one TV to another. So if a user is horrified
by this they could opt to do without, or buy a different set, or buy a
DTTV rx/tv. All *optional* as opposed to being uniformly imposed on all
viewers regardless of their individual personal preferences.

People who did not need the explanation could listen on Radio 3

Thus having to abandon the *option* to watch the concert *without*
subtitiles.

FWIW The trivial nature of many of the comments also stated the stunningly
obvious (and also repreated what the announcer had said before the work
started.). I have my doubts that anyone would 'need' this.

and can watch many more concerts on BBC 4 in the coming week without the
explanatory text.

I hope so! Still, at least some good came out of this. It prompted me to
get a fresh 'round tuit' supply and fix my CT7000... :-) [1]

Given that it was the first night and that the broadcast was on BBC 1, I
would personally support the editorial decision to provide on-screen
information.

So would I *if it were optional*. It would be good if the content of the
subtitles were actually useful, but that is another matter *if they are
optional*.

What I resent was having it forced on me if I wanted to watch the concert
as well as listen when it could easily have been optional.

(I am writing as someone who knows his appoggiaturas from
his acciaccaturas.;-) For other concerts on other channels, the
editorial decision would doubtless be different.

I hope so. Alas, my impression is that dumb ideas seem to propagate at the
BBC...

Slainte,

Jim

[1] Bad connections as usual. In this case the demodulator board had
decided to behave like an AM demodulator rather than an FM one. Seem to
have fixed that (for now). Alas, I can't fix the center-tuning meter as it
has a mechanical problem, so I'm currently using the buffered output of the
IF with an external meter to check the tuning... :-/

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html

[1] Bad connections as usual. In this case the demodulator board had
decided to behave like an AM demodulator rather than an FM one. Seem to
have fixed that (for now). Alas, I can't fix the center-tuning meter as it
has a mechanical problem, so I'm currently using the buffered output of the
IF with an external meter to check the tuning... :-/

That wouldn't be the first CT7000 to have that problem!.....


--
Tony Sayer

On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:38:21 +0100, Jim Lesurf
wrote:

[me]
Given that it was the first night and that the broadcast was on BBC 1, I
would personally support the editorial decision to provide on-screen
information.

So would I *if it were optional*. It would be good if the content of the
subtitles were actually useful, but that is another matter *if they are
optional*.

I think that we will just have to agree to disagree in a friendly
manner on this matter. ;-)

What I personally find far more distracting than onscreen text is the
use of multiple often moving cameras. The stereo image no longer
matches with the picture. (Moving the stereo image with the picture
would be even worse!) Why do producers feel the need to do this? Is it
to justify their jobs and all of the expensive equipment required?


--
Chris Isbell
Southampton, UK

Jim Lesurf wrote:
But Teletext 888 *is* available for PAL/UHF, and is routinely used for
subtitles.

But won't record on to a bog-standard video recorder.

Being able to watch programmes live as they go out is for
many people a luxury. The BBC may take the view that in this
case they will reach the broadest possible audience with
on-screen subtitles. Ultimately it's their call. Any classical
music fans who don't feel that Radio 3's Beethoven week alone
justified this year's licence fee, feel free to disagree.

"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On 15 Jul 2005 12:06:21 -0700, "Andy Evans"
wrote:


It was a disgrace. That is my last prom for this season from BBC TV
(OK, I didn't last as long as you managed - I'd turned off fifteen
minutes into the first piece). Fortunately R3 made a rather more
coherent job of it.


Had a visitor for the evening and was miffed to find I'd miffed* it - now
I'm curious as to what has set everyone off!!??

How bad was it??


*Elizabethan joke..... :-)

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 11:06:30 +0100, "Keith G"
wrote:


"Don Pearce" wrote in message
...
On 15 Jul 2005 12:06:21 -0700, "Andy Evans"
wrote:


It was a disgrace. That is my last prom for this season from BBC TV
(OK, I didn't last as long as you managed - I'd turned off fifteen
minutes into the first piece). Fortunately R3 made a rather more
coherent job of it.


Had a visitor for the evening and was miffed to find I'd miffed* it - now
I'm curious as to what has set everyone off!!??

How bad was it??


*Elizabethan joke..... :-)




Don't worry - Queenie still has the prettiest nose.

It was bad as a really bad thing, made by Mr. and Mrs. Bad.

d

Pearce Consulting
http://www.pearce.uk.com

"Don Pearce" wrote

It was a disgrace. That is my last prom for this season from BBC TV
(OK, I didn't last as long as you managed - I'd turned off fifteen
minutes into the first piece). Fortunately R3 made a rather more
coherent job of it.


Had a visitor for the evening and was miffed to find I'd miffed* it - now
I'm curious as to what has set everyone off!!??

How bad was it??


*Elizabethan joke..... :-)




Don't worry - Queenie still has the prettiest nose.



Certainly did back then - looks a bit more 'travelled' these days, I
believe.... :-)


It was bad as a really bad thing, made by Mr. and Mrs. Bad.


Ok, got visitors again this afternoon/evening, I'll have to try and record
it....

"Andy Evans" wrote in message
ups.com...
As Alan Titchmarsh introduces the orchestra one thinks "the brass form
a welcome bed of colour behind the second violins" only long enough to
wonder why one never understood classical music - it was never
snip


What's this got to do with AUDIO? Video, perhaps.
I turned off, and listened to CDs.

--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
http://www.megalith.freeserve.co.uk/oddimage.htm

In article , Malcolm Stewart
wrote:
"Andy Evans" wrote in message
ups.com...
As Alan Titchmarsh introduces the orchestra one thinks "the brass form
a welcome bed of colour behind the second violins" only long enough to
wonder why one never understood classical music - it was never
snip


What's this got to do with AUDIO? Video, perhaps.

A TV transmission of a musical performance tends to involve both sound and
vision... :-) Indeed, being able to see the performers can aid
involvement and understanding as you can watch the details of their
fingering, how they communicate with one another, etc. The point being that
the sound and vision relate to the same events.

In this case, instead of enhancing the enjoyment of the music the pictures
were a distraction and an annoyance.

I turned off, and listened to CDs.

Where did you get CDs of that night's live performance? :-)

At first I just turned off the TV (display), and listened to the audio from
BBCTV1 via DTTV. However after a while I switched to R3 FM.

Slainte,

Jim

--
Electronics http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scot...o/electron.htm
Audio Misc http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/AudioMisc/index.html
Armstrong Audio http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/Audio/armstrong.html
Barbirolli Soc. http://www.st-and.demon.co.uk/JBSoc/JBSoc.html