.....is because, by the time the Far Eastern competion came on song, it had
become utterly toss-useless and was:

Offering poorly designed ('parts bin') and poorly constructed expensive and
highly unreliable products.

Was riddled with 'us and them' management.

Was underfunded and permantly cash-poor due to unending high volumes of
warranty claims and 'head in the clouds' owners/directors remunerating
themselves out of all proportion to performance.

Had an arrogant, 'take it it leave it' attitude towards customers.

Was trading heavily on 'Brit Nostalgia' and pitching its marketing efforts
solely in the direction of the Yanks who were slowly waking up to the whole
gestalt and starting to lose interest anyway...


Why do I mention this here? Because the UK Audio Industry is going much the
same way, from what I can see of it....!!

Keith G wrote:



....is because, by the time the Far Eastern competion came on song, it had
become utterly toss-useless and was:

Offering poorly designed ('parts bin') and poorly constructed expensive
and highly unreliable products.

Was riddled with 'us and them' management.

Was underfunded and permantly cash-poor due to unending high volumes of
warranty claims and 'head in the clouds' owners/directors remunerating
themselves out of all proportion to performance.


Don't forget the stupid unions too. I was on a stand at a pro audio
exhibition in the 70's and I needed to attach a mains plug to a piece of
equipment. I had to hide in a small cubby hole to do it because if the
exhibition electricians had seen me they would have been out on strike.

Ian

"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:



....is because, by the time the Far Eastern competion came on song, it
had
become utterly toss-useless and was:

Offering poorly designed ('parts bin') and poorly constructed expensive
and highly unreliable products.

Was riddled with 'us and them' management.

Was underfunded and permantly cash-poor due to unending high volumes of
warranty claims and 'head in the clouds' owners/directors remunerating
themselves out of all proportion to performance.


Don't forget the stupid unions too. I was on a stand at a pro audio
exhibition in the 70's and I needed to attach a mains plug to a piece of
equipment. I had to hide in a small cubby hole to do it because if the
exhibition electricians had seen me they would have been out on strike.


I would suggest that much of the Unions' impetus in the 60s and 70s was
fuelled by the 'us and them management' referenced above - the masses in
this country had been promised a New Deal while risking mass slaughter in
WW2 and were a bit ticked off to see the same old 'us and them' BS sliding
back into place once the smoke had cleared. A little enlightenment (like
that displayed by the famous Japanese 'Names' at the time) would have gone a
long way to keeping this country on track, but then there was Maggie
Thatcher....

Today I went to a company in Hereford, who make aerospace components.

Over the last two years they have developed a wheelchair for severly
mentally and physically handicapped children, such is the innovation in the
design that several of the new ideas for the suspension and locking
mechanism's have been patented. It is made from aircraft quality specially
extruded aluminium and carbon fibre, it turns in its own length can be
altered to fit a range of positions and will 'grow' with the child, it can
be adjusted and pushed by an adult and more importantly adjusted quickly
again and be pushed by one of the childs siblings or friends.

British manufacturing is not dead, it is I admit in decline but there are
still engineers out there whose whole life is devoted to innovation and
technique, they range in age from 20 to 85.

Jem

The obvious commercial compromise is to design it and specify it this end,
and to get it built really cheaply and well in the East (or in Brazil or in
Africa) and then to re-label it and market it all from source: be it bikes,
audio gear, white goods or stuff using bytes. The biggest drawback is often
a lack of serviceability, so much of it is binned when it turns sour and
obsolescent!
But global competition is mega-ginormous, not like in the kushti "the world
owes us a living" period from early '50s to the mid '70s.

"Jem Raid" wrote in message
...
Today I went to a company in Hereford, who make aerospace components.

Over the last two years they have developed a wheelchair for severly
mentally and physically handicapped children, such is the innovation in
the design that several of the new ideas for the suspension and locking
mechanism's have been patented. It is made from aircraft quality specially
extruded aluminium and carbon fibre, it turns in its own length can be
altered to fit a range of positions and will 'grow' with the child, it can
be adjusted and pushed by an adult and more importantly adjusted quickly
again and be pushed by one of the childs siblings or friends.

British manufacturing is not dead, it is I admit in decline but there are
still engineers out there whose whole life is devoted to innovation and
technique, they range in age from 20 to 85.

Jem

"Jim Gregory" wrote in message
...
The obvious commercial compromise is to design it and specify it this end,
and to get it built really cheaply and well in the East (or in Brazil or
in Africa) and then to re-label it and market it all from source: be it
bikes, audio gear, white goods or stuff using bytes. The biggest drawback
is often a lack of serviceability, so much of it is binned when it turns
sour and obsolescent!
But global competition is mega-ginormous, not like in the kushti "the
world owes us a living" period from early '50s to the mid '70s.


Jim 2, the world did 'owe' the workforce of this country a living in the 50s
and 60s - it had just gone off en masse to keep those nasty Nazis out of the
English Country Houses and had been promised one! What it got instead (and
has done ever since) is a constant influx of cheap foreign labour to keep
prices down and profits up for the aforementioned Country House owners who
were busy cutting a dash on the Riviera or down on the Solent. The fact that
quality, motivation, enthusiasm, productivity and innovation goes down the
tubes at the same time is comfortably overlooked by those who don't
need/want to be reminded!

Remember 'Made In England' stickers? - Fakkin' collector's item now!!

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:28:58 +0000 (UTC), "Jem Raid"
wrote:

Today I went to a company in Hereford, who make aerospace components.

Over the last two years they have developed a wheelchair for severly
mentally and physically handicapped children, such is the innovation in the
design that several of the new ideas for the suspension and locking
mechanism's have been patented. It is made from aircraft quality specially
extruded aluminium and carbon fibre, it turns in its own length can be
altered to fit a range of positions and will 'grow' with the child, it can
be adjusted and pushed by an adult and more importantly adjusted quickly
again and be pushed by one of the childs siblings or friends.

British manufacturing is not dead, it is I admit in decline but there are
still engineers out there whose whole life is devoted to innovation and
technique, they range in age from 20 to 85.

Please note that design and manufacturing are *totally* separate
functions. For best economic results, and best value for the customer,
that Brit-designed wheelchair will be made in China. Vide Dyson.
--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering

Keith G wrote:


"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:



....is because, by the time the Far Eastern competion came on song, it
had
become utterly toss-useless and was:

Offering poorly designed ('parts bin') and poorly constructed expensive
and highly unreliable products.

Was riddled with 'us and them' management.

Was underfunded and permantly cash-poor due to unending high volumes of
warranty claims and 'head in the clouds' owners/directors remunerating
themselves out of all proportion to performance.


Don't forget the stupid unions too. I was on a stand at a pro audio
exhibition in the 70's and I needed to attach a mains plug to a piece of
equipment. I had to hide in a small cubby hole to do it because if the
exhibition electricians had seen me they would have been out on strike.


I would suggest that much of the Unions' impetus in the 60s and 70s was
fuelled by the 'us and them management' referenced above - the masses in
this country had been promised a New Deal while risking mass slaughter in
WW2 and were a bit ticked off to see the same old 'us and them' BS sliding
back into place once the smoke had cleared.

What a load of rubbish. The standard of living in the UK in the 60s was
roaring ahead and it was only the stupid union 'barons' whose ambitions
were primarily political that slowed it down. Thank god Maggie sorted those
plonkers out.

Ian

A little enlightenment (like
that displayed by the famous Japanese 'Names' at the time) would have gone
a long way to keeping this country on track, but then there was Maggie
Thatcher....

Ian Bell wrote:
Keith G wrote:


"Ian Bell" wrote in message
...
Keith G wrote:



....is because, by the time the Far Eastern competion came on song, it
had
become utterly toss-useless and was:

Offering poorly designed ('parts bin') and poorly constructed expensive
and highly unreliable products.

Was riddled with 'us and them' management.

Was underfunded and permantly cash-poor due to unending high volumes of
warranty claims and 'head in the clouds' owners/directors remunerating
themselves out of all proportion to performance.


Don't forget the stupid unions too. I was on a stand at a pro audio
exhibition in the 70's and I needed to attach a mains plug to a piece of
equipment. I had to hide in a small cubby hole to do it because if the
exhibition electricians had seen me they would have been out on strike.


I would suggest that much of the Unions' impetus in the 60s and 70s was
fuelled by the 'us and them management' referenced above - the masses in
this country had been promised a New Deal while risking mass slaughter in
WW2 and were a bit ticked off to see the same old 'us and them' BS sliding
back into place once the smoke had cleared.

What a load of rubbish. The standard of living in the UK in the 60s was
roaring ahead and it was only the stupid union 'barons' whose ambitions
were primarily political that slowed it down. Thank god Maggie sorted those
plonkers out.

Ian

A little enlightenment (like
that displayed by the famous Japanese 'Names' at the time) would have gone
a long way to keeping this country on track, but then there was Maggie
Thatcher....

I find it interesting that two of the most successful post war
economies were the defeated nations in Germany and Japan. The other
roaring success has been the USA but I think the link to context and
culture that has been discussed so far is bang on the mark....British
post war arrogance...fuelled by the class system....created power
imbalances and disequilibrium. The unions were a reaction to pre-war
excesses and were necessary at the time but post war became part of the
class problem. Maggie was only a great leader because the 80's context
was right for Maggie...our society was fed up with the imbalance of
power and Maggie had the determination and leadership qualities to sort
it. Same was true for Churchill he was a great leader during 40-45 but
take them both out of their context and the walls came tumbling down.
Leaders come and go, but it is social cultures that matter.

Visit other parts of the world and we realise how fortunate we are to
have been born in place like the UK...The NHS relative to the vast
majority of other world healthcare is still a fantastic asset. Parents
risk their lives to get their kids to a school in parts of China and
Africa and yet so many people in the UK take our hard won 'rights' for
granted. Therefore the current threat to the UK economy is still
related to arrogance and context i.e. 'necessity is the mother of
invention' and survival is the ultimate necessity. If we want to find
success we perhaps need to embrace parts of the world that have genuine
needs rather than unfulfilled wants...by working more effectively with
China, Kenya, India and so on, we may discover the path to innovation.

I notice that Singapore has taken a duel approach. Awakened to the
threat of Shanghai it aims to strengthen its already close cultural
links and at the same time be the value added 'capital' of the Far East
by introducing policies that stimulate intersectional thinking;
integrating artists, scientists and engineers...here's the link;
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...UGT0E3EJN1.DTL
..

Robert

"captain ahab" wrote


I find it interesting that two of the most successful post war
economies were the defeated nations in Germany and Japan.


Both those countries have/had a culture or working uncomplaining and pulling
together under a strong leadership and both of them had an enormous amount
of help (by their victors, asitappens) to rebuild after the war.


The other
roaring success has been the USA but I think the link to context and
culture that has been discussed so far is bang on the mark....British
post war arrogance...fuelled by the class system....created power
imbalances and disequilibrium. The unions were a reaction to pre-war
excesses and were necessary at the time but post war became part of the
class problem.


Unions still exist and the better ones have evolved, the relative
'quietness' of their activities (most directed towards protecting Pension
Schemes from what I can see of it) are simply the way things are atm - who's
to say where it might go as events unfold in the future?


Maggie was only a great leader because the 80's context
was right for Maggie...


Maggie was not a great leader, she was merely the loudest of a bunch of
wimps (Heseltine et al) at the time - the Tories were apologising for her
excesses right up to the point they disappeared from view (forever, now that
'New Labour' have taken over the Tories' job)....


our society was fed up with the imbalance of
power and Maggie had the determination and leadership qualities to sort
it. Same was true for Churchill he was a great leader during 40-45 but
take them both out of their context and the walls came tumbling down.
Leaders come and go, but it is social cultures that matter.


See above about nations pulling together for a change - Churchill had his
faults but he was the only *great* leader this country has had since
Cromwell...



Visit other parts of the world and we realise how fortunate we are to
have been born in place like the UK...The NHS relative to the vast
majority of other world healthcare is still a fantastic asset.


The NHS *will* have been flogged off to the private sector *in toto* within
the next 20 years.


Parents
risk their lives to get their kids to a school in parts of China and
Africa and yet so many people in the UK take our hard won 'rights' for
granted.


Yes and pay no dues to the activities of those who have passed before
(unions included) who wrested those rights from the 'baronial bullies' who
have controlled this country for the last couple of millenia.


Therefore the current threat to the UK economy is still
related to arrogance and context i.e. 'necessity is the mother of
invention' and survival is the ultimate necessity.


There is no threat to the UK economy other than, in the long term, we are
losing important skills like manufacturing. Those 'in power' have it just
the way they want it, there are many ways to skin the capitalist cat -
importing cheap foreign labour being one of the more obvious. The financial
manipualtion of the masses that is going on today is a far more sinister
aspect of 'capitalism' than simply keeping wages low - " I owe my soul to
the Company Store"......IYSWIM!! ;-)

Enough already....