"Keith G" wrote in message
. ..

"Iain M Churches" wrote in message
...

"Keith G" wrote in message
. ..


From a few feet? You need to be more discerning that that:-)

I am, mine was the real one... ;-)
Thank God foir that:-)

Go to Singapore, Hong Kong, Kuala Lumpur, Tallinn, Vilna, Moscow,
St Petersburg, you will find nothing but counterfeit CDs in most record
shops. It's a huge multi-million business. In KL, they have one of each
CD on the stand, and then burn you a clone, and colour copy the inlay
card while you wait.

OK. All I can say to that is 'As ye sow, so shall ye reap...'
I am pretty sure if you were on the other side of the fence, and
were the one being cheated, then your outlook would change.

But, it may be that your stance is just to generate a good
discussion. That's fine too. It's working:-)



Very few people can differentiate between a
genuine and counterfeit CD.

I disagree but irrelevant anyway...

Even experts find it extremely difficult. The packaging is usually
flawed in some way - which is a clue.


OK, fine. Note that I don't *know* from personal experience - the only
*certain* bootleg I have is a record I bought from eBay....

eBay is full of them. 5000 offers were "withdrawn" from E.Bay UK last
year. That is probably only the tip of the iceberg. I have bought four
counterfeit CD's in the past year, and one bootleg. In all cases, the
vendor claimed total innocence. One refunded the cost of the
CD (a James Taylor rarity!) and postage, plus a fiver for goodwill.
One could make a profit at buying and returning counterfeits

Sure. No-one inside the MI (including you) wants to consider there may hve
been a better way than *greed*....

The problem is that you must regard the industry as an entity, and not
judge it by the sales of just a few records. There are many recording, like
classical works that are very expensive to make, and have slow sales.
Many recordings, including a huge percentage of pop records don't
reach the break-even figure.


And the way consumerism works is that if summat is too expensive (or
deemed to be overpriced) then it will get ripped off - that's the way of
the world. Your own cited examples demonstrate just how much of a market
there is for 'knock offs'....

People only by these counterfeit CDs because they are so cheap,

Producing records is (presumably) pleasant and easy work

It is indeed pleasant work - but involves very long hours, and much
dedication. You can't knock of at 1700 because there's something
good on 'telly:-))

(nothing to plough, nothing to lift and haul), it's also very rewarding
(while stifling a lot of real talent, I gather).

Many hopeful artists make no money at all, and the record company
meets the loss on poor sales. This is of course counterbalanced by
good sales on other recordings.

Salaries as far as musicians and recording staff are concerned
are appropriate for the level of skills required. It's a lot more
involved than most people think:-)

A very pretty young female journalist, with short skirt and very
sharp pencil, visiting Decca once asked me "How many album
do you record in a day?"

Interesting that the strongest defenders of such an obviously flawed
system in this group are those that are connected and derived financial
benefit from it, isn't it?

Not surprising. That's how we make a living.

I've said it a thousand times - pitch a music CD (*any* music CD) at say
1.99 a go and work back from that in terms of payments/royalties or
whatever and this whole piracy thing would melt away under the heading of
'who can be arsed?' but that wouldn't suit the MI at all would it?

It's like asking the breweries to produce good beer at 1p per pint, or
farmers to sell prime beef at 50p/kilo :-))


Iain

"Iain M Churches" wrote


OK. All I can say to that is 'As ye sow, so shall ye reap...'
I am pretty sure if you were on the other side of the fence, and
were the one being cheated, then your outlook would change.


Being cheated or not in a given situation depends upon your expectation of
that situation...



But, it may be that your stance is just to generate a good
discussion. That's fine too. It's working:-)


Absolutely not. In simple terms, I believe the game of 'catch as catch can'
played by the MI and pirates is caused by and sustained by MI greed. I do
not begrudge the heads of the Retail Food industry their wealth as they
appear to be anything but greedy when you consider their pricing policies.
It's a VFM thing in my book.


eBay is full of them. 5000 offers were "withdrawn" from E.Bay UK last
year. That is probably only the tip of the iceberg. I have bought four
counterfeit CD's in the past year, and one bootleg. In all cases, the
vendor claimed total innocence. One refunded the cost of the
CD (a James Taylor rarity!) and postage, plus a fiver for goodwill.
One could make a profit at buying and returning counterfeits


I gather it's quite possible to by fake CDs that have extra material on them
to use up available space (Vangelis) - it appears the pirates have a better
sense of fairness (and VFM) than the original publishers...!!



Sure. No-one inside the MI (including you) wants to consider there may
hve
been a better way than *greed*....

The problem is that you must regard the industry as an entity, and not
judge it by the sales of just a few records. There are many recording,
like
classical works that are very expensive to make, and have slow sales.
Many recordings, including a huge percentage of pop records don't
reach the break-even figure.


I'm struggling to avoid a response that includes the word 'patronising' at
times...

OK, I'll go with it. When the MI tries to create it's own market and
promotes some witless idiot with nice tits (gender immaterial) and lucks
out, I say 'tough' - it's no different to any other industry where similar
speculative moves are carried out.

Not only are we expected to be deeply understanding about the MI's continual
thirst for huge profits, we are expected to feel sorry for them when their
plans go awry. I got news for you Iain, it happens to everyone - you can
build the world's number one tourist attraction and lose your shirt on it.
(I read earlier that Quad never made a penny out of the ESL63...??)




And the way consumerism works is that if summat is too expensive (or
deemed to be overpriced) then it will get ripped off - that's the way of
the world. Your own cited examples demonstrate just how much of a market
there is for 'knock offs'....

People only by these counterfeit CDs because they are so cheap,


Er, yes...

Have a little think about that one - it's kinda fundamental to what I'm
saying. Try it the other way round: People *don't* buy the real thing
because it's so expensive...



It is indeed pleasant work - but involves very long hours, and much
dedication. You can't knock of at 1700 because there's something
good on 'telly:-))


The implication that every/anyone else can is very strong in that remark....



(nothing to plough, nothing to lift and haul), it's also very rewarding
(while stifling a lot of real talent, I gather).

Many hopeful artists make no money at all, and the record company
meets the loss on poor sales. This is of course counterbalanced by
good sales on other recordings.


Yes and yes...

(???)



Salaries as far as musicians and recording staff are concerned
are appropriate for the level of skills required. It's a lot more
involved than most people think:-)


:-)



A very pretty young female journalist, with short skirt and very
sharp pencil, visiting Decca once asked me "How many album
do you record in a day?"


Of couse, she meant *sell*... :-)



Interesting that the strongest defenders of such an obviously flawed
system in this group are those that are connected and derived financial
benefit from it, isn't it?

Not surprising. That's how we make a living.



Unlike the 'hopeful artists'...?? ;-)



I've said it a thousand times - pitch a music CD (*any* music CD) at say
1.99 a go and work back from that in terms of payments/royalties or
whatever and this whole piracy thing would melt away under the heading of
'who can be arsed?' but that wouldn't suit the MI at all would it?

It's like asking the breweries to produce good beer at 1p per pint, or
farmers to sell prime beef at 50p/kilo :-))


No, they are stupid figures - I base my figure on the fact that I, for one,
would be prepared to pay that amount for an Audio CD and have done so dozens
of times.

Tell ya summat for nowt Iain, the MI will *never* sell me a CD at 16 quid!!
(I can get an electric drill, jigsaw or sander for that sort of money FFS!!
;-)

Keith G wrote:

Tell ya summat for nowt Iain, the MI will *never* sell me a CD at 16
quid!!

Nor I. About 12 quid is my absolute limit - and I've to be both gagging
*and* flush. Otherwise, it's more like 6-8 quid (or 3-5 for clsasical). I
always keep an eye on cheapo stuff from charity shops and eBay (y'can't beat
CDs for a quid or two!).

I agree with you - the MI is shafting itself because it's charging rip-off
prices in an environment where people can make perfect copies for 10p a
throw. It should wise up, realise that the bottom has fallen out of its
market, and come up with a better survival strategy than making a lot of
noise and trying to get punters thrown in jail. Why should I pay top dollar
for some album or other, just so they can profiteer from it and pour far too
much dough into promoting their latest teen money-spinner? They can go ****
themselves.


--
Wally
www.artbywally.com
www.wally.myby.co.uk

On Mon, 03 Oct 2005 21:22:54 GMT, "Wally" wrote:

Keith G wrote:

Tell ya summat for nowt Iain, the MI will *never* sell me a CD at 16
quid!!

Nor I. About 12 quid is my absolute limit - and I've to be both gagging
*and* flush. Otherwise, it's more like 6-8 quid (or 3-5 for clsasical). I
always keep an eye on cheapo stuff from charity shops and eBay (y'can't beat
CDs for a quid or two!).

I agree with you - the MI is shafting itself because it's charging rip-off
prices in an environment where people can make perfect copies for 10p a
throw. It should wise up, realise that the bottom has fallen out of its
market, and come up with a better survival strategy than making a lot of
noise and trying to get punters thrown in jail. Why should I pay top dollar
for some album or other, just so they can profiteer from it and pour far too
much dough into promoting their latest teen money-spinner? They can go ****
themselves.

Agreed. Entirely, without qualification. This is *much* more important
than any bull**** about the myth of 'cable sound'. I love my Sony
CDP-715E CD player, but I'd gladly stomp it flat if Sony would take a
quid off the price off a CD. Actually, given volume, make that a
penny.

--

Stewart Pinkerton | Music is Art - Audio is Engineering